About one thing Lamuness said in the newsletter

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#21

It’ll take time to translate the demos in the first place, and the fact that demos are availible will NOT

a)Influence those we are planning to buy the game anyway to support the industry.

b)Influence those who are planning to buy H game because it’s a H game.

c)Influence those who are so biased against the genre and think they’re above such “crap”.

I don’t think having demos availible will influence sales enough to justify its existence. Heck, I don’t think it’ll influence sales at all, to tell you the truth.

Very few of the H games rely on gameplay to lure the audience in, and instead rely on CGs+Characters+Story…all of which can be decently told without the use of a playable demo. That’s why it’s rare to get them in Japan, and it’s also why I think they’d be a waste of time to do.

Then again…I’m a translator. What do I know? :stuck_out_tongue:

#22

Naw, what about transalting demos insted? . Seriously, through, to I’d like to see a translation of the Obbligato demo, you don’t even need to put it in the game but can print it out and read it on some pages directly, since the demo is a single-path one; you don’t get to make any choices, so you can use such a translation without spoiling the fun

#23
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Naw, what about transalting demos insted? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]. Seriously, through, to I'd like to see a translation of the Obbligato demo, you don't even need to put it in the game but can print it out and read it on some pages directly, since the demo is a single-path one; you don't get to make any choices, so you can use such a translation without spoiling the fun [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
Honestly, even if such demos existed, what would be the gain? What can you learn with a playable demo, except for the gameplay? And obviously, since the true strenght of most ren'ai games is in the story and characters, what would having a playable demo bring? Of course, there are some ren'ai with interesting gameplay features (kiminozu for instance; or some TEATIME games), but they are but a few... and it's not what makes them successful anyway.
#24

I think playable demos bring quite a lot. They can confirm the quality of a game, especially since most bishoujo game sites DON’T post screenshots, but instead post cropped images, which can be misleading to people who might believe that they are screenshots (And thus the game images are full-screen). I’m glad to say that Peach Princess doesn’t do this though. One of the worst examples for this was Transfer Student. I mean, wtf? 800 x 600? Why? The game window was nowhere near that big. They could have fit the game into 640 x 480 and still fit everything around the screen. That really pissed me off.

#25
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
Honestly, even if such demos existed, what would be the gain? What can you learn with a playable demo, except for the gameplay? And obviously, since the true strenght of most ren'ai games is in the story and characters, what would having a playable demo bring? Of course, there are some ren'ai with interesting gameplay features (kiminozu for instance; or some TEATIME games), but they are but a few... and it's not what makes them successful anyway.

*shrughs* The gain? The gain would be what a demo always give: a sample of the game. It might even be more effective than you think. and as I said, if it is a "one-path demo", then all you need to do it to put out first the demo and then a Word-file or soemthing like that with the dialouge. you wouldn't even need to bother about doing lots of work in that case, just writte some instuctions and warnings (like: This demo wont work in Win2000) and transalte the dialouge itself, of course.

But you're right, of course; often a demo don't show the true face of a game.

#26

But does that “gain” counterbalance the inconvenience of making the demo in the first place (which is not IMO trivial and pretty resource/time-consuming)?

#27
quote:
Originally posted by woodelf:
Also the demo movies are better for adverising.
You get to see what the characters look like with out spoiling the game.
Etto... We were talking about playable demos, not demo movies (which are much more common)... well, AFAIK.

#28
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
But does that "gain" counterbalance the inconvenience of making the demo in the first place (which is not IMO trivial and pretty resource/time-consuming)?

It could. Lamuness said for himself in the newsletter that there is a certain demand for playable demos, Where there is demand, there is the possibilty to make a counterbalance to the inconvenience. but I'm not saying that it would be like that, only that there is a possibilty (for as much as I know that there is people who just wants to sample the game before they buy it, there is also those who jsut want to play the demo for fun and then not care about the game itself afterwards... and I know that the kind of "young underage and horny teenagers" who often visits adult websites would be among those who'd download the demo but not care aboutthe game (not necressiary because that they don't like the game, they just can't buy it)).

[This message has been edited by Spectator Beholder (edited 08-21-2002).]

#29
quote:
Originally posted by woodelf:
umm I ment the demo movies sell better than demo games. It sold me on LMM.


[This message has been edited by woodelf (edited 08-20-2002).]

You and I might think so; those people who are used to playable demos don't.

#30
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
You and I might think so; those people who are used to playable demos don't.
*wonders* I know nothing about PC games outside of bishoujo games (lately; used to play Western PC games years ago), so I'm asking, but... are there that many games with playable demos that there are people used to them? I mean:
  • NWN: no playable demo AFAIK
  • Warcraft III: same thing
  • SWG: same thing
  • Civilization III: same thing

    • #31
    quote:
    Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
    *wonders* I know [b]nothing about PC games outside of bishoujo games (lately; used to play Western PC games years ago), so I'm asking, but... are there that many games with playable demos that there are people used to them? I mean:
  • NWN: no playable demo AFAIK
  • Warcraft III: same thing
  • SWG: same thing
  • Civilization III: same thing
    [/b]

    • There's plenty of playable demos. Maybe not for every game, bur enough of demos to make people wonder why Japanese adult bishoujo games have very few playable demos, especially the ones released here in the West. And besides, demos are often released after a game is released (because that the developers and the rest of the staff have more time then), so there might be more demos than one might imagine. Besides, I've taken part in debates about this before (but it has jsut been about western games), and most people want playabe demos of the games they're going to buy; they say that they don't trust on just a demo movie; a demo movie can be made to look perfect, a demo can't, not in the same way, anyway. Some people have even gone as far as saying that it's the demo movie's fault that people often are "tricked" into buying games they wouldn't have brought had they had a chance to test it via a playable demo.

    #32
    quote:
    Originally posted by woodelf:
    umm I ment the demo movies sell better than demo games. It sold me on LMM.

    My crappy little flash sold you on LMM? You've gotta be kidding...

    #33

    Never underestimate the power of demos :stuck_out_tongue: Acutally most of my anime and game purchases are based on reviews and demos (well mainly reviews but demos can’t hurt) we need more bishoujo reviews!!!

    #34
    quote:
    Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
    (...)
    Some people have even gone as far as saying that it's the demo movie's fault that people often are "tricked" into buying games they wouldn't have brought had they had a chance to test it via a playable demo.
    Then IMHO those people are idiots and don't know a thing about how something called "advertisement". It's the purpose of ads. to show you a product in the best way possible and "trick" you into buying it. As for "trying before buying", how often does someone "try" his new computer before buying it, or actually read a book before buying it, or try any new device before buying it? To me, stuff like games, books, movies, etc. should be bought/watched based on reviews mostly. Of course, to have a playable is a plus, but not an absolute prerequesite!
    #35
    quote:
    Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
    Then IMHO those people are idiots and don't know a thing about how something called "advertisement". It's the purpose of ads. to show you a product in the best way possible and "trick" you into buying it.

    Yep. That's why they often say that they want demos to help them decide the hard "buy or not?" question.

    quote:
    As for "trying before buying", how often does someone "try" his new computer before buying it, or actually read a book before buying it, or try any new device before buying it? To me, stuff like games, books, movies, etc. should be bought/watched based on reviews mostly. Of course, to have a playable is a plus, but not an absolute prerequesite!

    Um, in the "trying before buying", I think that depends on what you are going to buy; People do know that a computer works (if it is sold by a legal company it has to work, and if not, they can request that the company provides them witha new, working computer accordign to the law here), and some people still even go as far as requesting it to be tested a little. And as for books and movies; it isn't really the same as a game; a book may be brought only for the story in it, and people will often peek into the book before buying it, or even borrows it at a libray and then buy it if they think it is good enough, and the same goes for movies; most people first rent the movie on video or DVd or see it at the cinema as soona s it is released, and so on. But a gmae may be brought not only for the story, but the gameplay itself. the SIMS was as far as I know not popular for it‰s story (if there even was any), but for the gameplay. Gangsters was also almost without a story, if i remember corrwcrlt (the first, anyway) and most brought it because that the gameplay let you step into the shoes of a would-be Godfather. and that's why many want playable demos, to experience the gameplay, not the story (western demos are based more on gameplay than story, as I'm sure you've already noticed), and why they're disstatsfised with just demomovies. Not all are like that, through, I'm fine with movie demos, even if it once in a while would be fun to encounter a playable demo.

    #36
    quote:
    Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
    (...)
    But a gmae may be brought not only for the story, but the gameplay itself. the SIMS was as far as I know not popular for it‰s story (if there even was any), but for the gameplay. Gangsters was also almost without a story, if i remember corrwcrlt (the first, anyway) and most brought it because that the gameplay let you step into the shoes of a would-be Godfather. and that's why many want playable demos, to experience the gameplay, not the story (western demos are based more on gameplay than story, as I'm sure you've already noticed), and why they're disstatsfised with just demomovies. Not all are like that, through, I'm fine with movie demos, even if it once in a while would be fun to encounter a playable demo.
    Except, most bishoujo games aren't about gameplay; Western people/gamers should stop to think gameplay is everything to a computer game... Or beautiful CGs is what make a computer RPG... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]

    EDT: And anyway my personal opinion is it's up to the consumer to find the informations he needs about the product he's interested by (by legal ways, of course), not the selling company...

    [This message has been edited by olf_le_fol (edited 08-22-2002).]

    #37
    quote:
    Originally posted by woodelf:
    That is 40 meg+ exec file
    on the disk #2 of TCI.

    That I believe is the AVI version of the flash demo movie which I made it into self-exec BINK for Dave/Kumiko

    #38
    quote:
    Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
    Except, most bishoujo games aren't about gameplay; Western people/gamers should stop to think gameplay is everything to a computer game... Or beautiful CGs is what make a computer RPG... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]

    Sadly, most people won't change their mind. And as much as some people want a good story in a game, they also want to encounter a gameplay style they're used to. That's why Brave Soul might become the most popular game of Peach Princess; it actually use a gameplay style that the player can feel familiar with.

    Hmm, speaking about Brave Soul, I've been thinking of buying some more copies of that than just one and keep one to myself and give away the rest to some friends and sibblings who're interested in RPG's... What a pity that the one of my cousins who're most interestedin computer RPG's, and also most fludent in english, is just 15 years old...

    quote:
    EDIT: And anyway my personal opinion is it's up to the consumer to find the informations he needs about the product he's interested by (by legal ways, of course), not the selling company...

    Ny throughts too, but many seems to think that it's up to the company to make it easy for them to decide the whole "buy or not buy" thing... and, some companies do try to make it easier for the customers/attract more customers by making playable demos. but since I don't work for a computer gaming company, I can't really say if this strategy works, but in a few cases, I've brought a game because that I saw a demo of it than convinced me to buy it.

    #39