Article on eroge

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#21

I dont even get the age thing. Its just a drawing.
If it was a picture of a real person that would be different,
but its just a stupid drawing -_-;

Why does no one bother about paintings of naked underage virgins in churches and museums then ?
They are even being considered art.

To me that is even worse.

I’d prefer drawn hentai any day over real porn (thats what I have my girlfriend for ;P) in which young girls from poor countries
are exploited by old bald guys without remorse,
which opposed to hentai seems to be ok to these people.
Visual novels are and have always been a more romantic and fantastic view on sexual relationships and no living person is harmed by them.

#22

They used to actually. Some of the original nudity on the Sistine Chapel that Michelangelo put there, was “covered” by his pupal by order of the Church.

These days, society has advanced to the point where the general population accepts that nudity for the sake of nudity is not utterly illicit. Definately not encourage in everyday situations, because it’s disctracting or a cultural problem to the natural order of things (like a walking around naked in New York City), but not something that’s evil because it’s simple nudity.

The point of contention, is what we consider obscene (like beasilality) or immoral (taking pictures of a naked child).

#23

Telling people what they want to hear is popular. Popular things draw more viewers. It’s a vicious cycle, the end result being the confirmation of the audience’s own biases. This is one reason I grew bored with popular news (CNN) after being into it for a few months. The media isn’t interested in telling you what’s important, meaningful, or relevant, but only in what will draw more viewers. I’m not sure who’s more to blame, the media for abusing its control of the public psyche, or the public for being the cattle they are. The media, after all, is just doing its job.

What’s irritating though is America’s double-standard. We can distinguish fantasy from reality in everything but sex. Come on. Killing and torture in videogames and movies is ok but rape isn’t? They’re 2D cartoon characters for crying out loud, it’s not even realistic–unlike the realistic violence you see in those games and movies. The sexual perversions a person enjoys in the privacy of their own home is their own business, as long as no one else is being harmed. But people can’t see that, because they’re too busy thinking with their emotion rather than their head. And emotion is ridiculously easy to manipulate.

I can’t stand loudmouthed activists (think sign-carrying, screaming anti-abortionists) in general as individuals. Almost by definition they’re fanatical, closeminded, and irrational. But the ones to look out for are the organizers, because they’re likely to be master manipulators. I do have to concede however that many good things would not get accomplished without a goon squad of activists on the front lines. Like the military, they’re a necessary evil.

Hope I didn’t offend anyone. :stuck_out_tongue: GOOO…APATHY! Yay!

#24

I’m going to play devils advocate here. I honestly don’t feel strongly toward this subject but considering the forum i’m on, this would be a boring conversation if everyone was on the same side.

First off, to some of the earlier posts in the thread, you are all fricken kidding yourself with the STUPID importing making all characters 18. I know it’s required but it’s done poorly at times. I’ve LITERALLY seen it listed as 2 characters both being 18, yet in game the main character flat out says she was TWO YEARS YOUNGER THEN HIM. How does this happen if they are both 18? You could at least edit the game to fit the age changes.

The reason there is a double standard for sexuality is because while seeing blood and murder doesn’t make you want to kill and murder, seeing sexual content DOES give sexual urges to people. Why do you think the hentai market exists despite it being “2d girls”. And yes the oversexualed american entertainment industry and media has influenced the youth. Playing a game where you have sex with a "hot chick’ can increase someones desire to actually do it. Unlike murder in games. Try watching a murder horror movie marathon for 10 hours, then go hang out with a group of people, are you going to want to kill em? no. Go play/watch 10 hours of sex and then go hang out with your gf. If you aren’t exhausted from the one handed mambo then you are going to want to have sex.

You can say what goes on in the privacy in one’s own home is fine. For me, I enjoy lolicon, it’s not my favorite, but it is okay for me, but I personally know that it has all rights to be taboo. Even if you aren’t attracted to younger girls in real life, and that’s normal even if you like loli. But you have to realize that not everyone is normal and you can’t make laws based on the normal people. There are/will be people who got their interest into pedophilia from lolicon. It’s a fine line. What if someone who always was sorta off got into lolicon, eventually found real child porn, and realized that too turned him on, and moved into pedophilia for real. You may consider this really reaching, but there are a LOT of pedos out there, WAY more then are caught/known about. A LOT of it goes unreported, or never found out about untill WAY too late. For example someone molesting their daughter when she was a child, but it never being brought to light untill she was a adult and then there was no way to verify any of it.

And the scary thing is, that someone who has interest in it MAY take it another step, and what if that step is with someone you know? All it would take is that persons FIRST offense to cause harm to someone. Sure you may say, they’d do it anyway. That’s not exactly true. Child porn is illegal, and it’s highly guarded, if someone were to be scared off by the legality of it, and then came across lolicon, would they eventually work their way up to cp? Would they go from cp to the real thing? Again, maybe. Nobody knows unless you are the person, or you talk to the person about it.

But the fact of the matter is, murder/violence isn’t a feeling, it’s a reaction to other feelings. You want to hit someone or kill someone because of them(unless you are twisted but that’s a whole other thread right there), and how they made you feel. If you are level headed or can think things through you won’t do it. Regardless of what media you have seen. Everyone knows that violence is wrong, and yet it still happens because of those feelings, but the thing is, we are taught to handle those feelings. Whereas sexual feelings are a lot harder. For example being gay or straight. If you are gay, then just someone saying “dude you aren’t supposed to stick it into that type of person” isn’t going to the person realize the error of their ways. So if someone is constantly thinking of sex, then they will want to do it. Why do you think teen pregnancy and stds are such a huge issue? Because theres no real outlet for sex other then sex. Masturbation only gets you so far.

#25

Dear poster: First things, realise: YOU ARE NOT THE WORLD. How YOU feel is not necessarily how anyone else feels.

You’ll find there are just as many nutjobs who insist that violent media DOES make you want to kill and murder as there are nutjobs who insist that viewing porn makes you want to raep. That doesn’t mean either of them is correct, of course, but both viewpoints are equally under debate.

Despite? I think you’ll find many people here far prefer looking at 2d girls for artistic purposes.

If you were alreadya psychopathic freak, then possibly.

If you were not already a psychopathic freak, then IF the film affected you at all (some people are quite desensitised) then you’ve probably just got more adrenaline in your system than usual. You may be jumpier than usual, a worse driver than usual, more likely to freak out if pushed, until you calm down.

You’re a heterosexual male, right? If you watch 10 hours of sex and then go hang out with your guy friends, do you suddenly have uncontrollable urges to have sex with them? If you watch porn and have to go visit your family, do you suddenly have uncontrollable urges to have sex with them?

Now, sure, porn is meant to be arousing, and most people will probably find some porn that turns them on and makes them want to have sex / wank. In the appropriate context. A guy who can’t control himself and whips it out in public because of his naughty thoughts is generally called mentally ill.

Some people watch porn for amusement value alone. A lot of porn is funny, especially badly-acted movies. And if it doesn’t tickle your perversions in the right way, it may not be terribly arousing. Especially if you’ve seen enough of it to, again, desensitise. There are many people who can look at porn for ten hours without feeling much desire to even masturbate.

Some people watch some kinds of porn for artistic value, and hentai often comes into this, so does a lot of bondage erotica.

And someone who has interest in women MAY be turned on by looking at pictures of fully clothed women and then decide to rape someone. Sadly, it does happen. But the crime is the rape, not the “looking at pictures of fully clothed women”, and “remove all women from view” is not the answer.

Unless you are mentally ill and need treatment, you are capable of making choices in your life.

#26

Yeah, there seems to be a bunch of porn on NicoNicoDouga with the actual porn cut out, and it’s pretty hilarious.

#27

Thanks for countering my post, i honestly was planning on trying to argue more, but i really don’t even believe my own post, it was just all rhetoric i heard before and i pieced together into a arguement. So I honestly can’t come up with counterpoints. Sorry for failing and ending the arguement.

#28

Argument for the sake of argument? Sounds like a man after my own heart.

Your argument hinges on the premise that porn causes sexual thoughts which causes more sex crimes. Which just isn’t true, or at least has compelling counterevidence.
Link: http://www.slate.com/id/2152487/fr/rss/

Bascially, laboratory studies do indeed suggest that violence causes violent thoughts and porn causes sexual thoughts. But real-world data suggests that this doesn’t translate into more crimes–in fact quite the opposite! I’ll let you read the article for the details, but as papillon alluded we don’t care how NORMAL people respond to violence and sex, because they’re not the ones committing the crimes. We care about the psychopaths who WILL commit crimes. And psychopaths that are busy eating popcorn at the movies or wanking off in front of their computer screen aren’t off on the streets getting drunk, pillaging, and raping.

Unfortunately, I’m not sure how you’d do a similar scientific study of lolicon materials (no one harmed in their making), child porn (children harmed in their making), and child molestation, owing to the illegal nature of child porn and the extreme prejudice against lolicon materials. But I’d say the burden of proof should always be on the accusers rather than the accused. If you want to stigmatize something and not be a bigot, you should have a rational reason for doing so and evidence to back it up.

One caveat: This argument mostly applies to adults and perhaps adolescents; the “normal” person has to be able to distinguish fantasy from reality, and that what is being portrayed is “wrong.” Children are impressionable and more likely to confuse right and wrong, fantasy and reality…and more likely to do something stupid after seeing a violent film, for example.

Second caveat: This evidence mostly disputes the connection between violent or sexual thoughts and crime. It says nothing about legal but potentially dangerous activities such as adolescents having unprotected (consensual) sex.

QFT: “Maybe rape is down because the rapists are all indoors…vandalizing Wikipedia.”

#29