Gibo - is this going to be a long game?

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#21
quote:
Originally posted by Listen2Reason:
The point of the Deus Ex article was simply: Code things so that the engine takes care of interactions for you. Example: What if you create a potted plant object, and forget to code interactions with all the weapons? You could have a bug, like, shoot at the plant and bullets bounce off! Instead, in Deus Ex, weapons create damage messages. So you only have to write an object to deal with damage messages, then you can blow it up with any weapon you want.
Errr... That's the very principles of OOP... Through your model seems nearer to the model of actors (read any AI books about cooperation systems; I recommend Hewitt and Agha, in particular "Actors: A Model of Concurrent Computation in Distributed Systems"...) or even multi-agents... (read Marvel Minsky's "The Society of Mind"...)... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
Well, let's say that the theory presents it (them) as the Grail in matter of programming, but one's has yet to see a true full program (i.e. not a research program) respecting totally and properly all the rules...

quote:
Originally posted by woodelf:
How ever the problem is not a game engine, but a game language and database problem.
supose I coded (in japanese )
" { speak file #4521 } Hey you are cute guy {wink eyes} , care for a dance? {smile}
{ play romanitc music } " and it gets translated to
" { speak english file #5217} { play prom music } Any cute guys { smile } care to dance with me? { wink } "
That is a lot stuff that gets changed, and a game engine may not be able to adapt to something different if it was never planned for that in the begining.
Well, you can probably be able to code a game as a expert system (i.e. predicates and inference rules) or a script language, but you would lose in matter of performance (speed), because you would need to use an interpreter... Personnally, I don't see it as viable, but...
Through... a script language, then a precompiler, then a compiler... Yeah! lex&yacc or flex/bison!!! May be a good idea to code in them... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]
#22

im a college student majoring in computer science (programming)

its just a kinda sad though
about how a bishoujo game takes so much time and money to convert
since, many people i know here at college have been programming much more complex games, and without any form of payment
the real world and its money… depressing place

isnt that kinda the way PeachPrincess works thought? you are run by just a few dedicated people, who do not even pay themselves? working only for love of the genre?
what if one of you was a programmer, willing to redesign a new game engine from scratch without being paid?

removing the limits of money and dependence on the origional comany’s schedules…
why is it that students programming for fun tend to get much more accomplished in a shorter time that someone who is getting paid?

on another thought…
aside from translation… i wouldn’t expect that an extra long game script would affect programming difficulty
its not like its hard coded where every branch in the story is an actual section of the program to be written, you’d generalize it…make a script consisting of…‘scenes’ that tell what text and picture to load and contain linking info to other scenes
or is the issue that the format of the script data needs to be re-written into a new format for the new engine? even in that case, you wouldn’t do it manually…you’d write a simple parsing program to reorganize it…

[This message has been edited by exoarchaeologist (edited 04-17-2002).]

#23
quote:
Originally posted by exoarchaeologist:
im a college student majoring in computer science (programming)
(...rest snipped)
Exoarchaeologist, I'd interested to know your opinion about the subject once you're working and earning you life by programming... i.e. making really used-by-many-people programs under the constraints of an industrial environment... As I wrote once, perfect coding only exist in the programs you're writing when at school and students are always thinking because of that they're doing way way better and more complex programs than the industrial ones! As I told Listen2Reason, "I would believe you if, and only if, you were yourself working in the field and developing sim-type games..."
You know, before graduating with my Master of Computer Science in Artificial Intelligence (yeah, yeah, unshamed plug, but I'm somewhat tired to see all those students not realizing how hard it is to write such a perfect program as the one they claim it would be; you know, there are many many many people [on the MT BBS] telling they would do a ren'ai game: dozen of projects, all by people not from the field and mostly by students. No project ever was finished: once people get into one, they realized how hard it actually is...), I, as well, was a student majoring in computer sciences...
#24

The coding required to do a multipath story game or even a mild sim isn’t difficult at all, a student could easily pull it off if they didn’t get bored halfway through. Underlying engine / interface / display design is hard to me but people with more experience in application design might find it easier - and once you’ve got it you can use it in multiple games.

A game that’s mostly content rather than gameplay takes a lot of time but isn’t difficult in the same way that, say, handling the interactions and display of dozens of moving objects is difficult. Which isn’t to say that it’s easy, obviously it isn’t. Still, I would say that the creation of a multipath-novel-style bishoujo game is more a function of time than a function of problem solving. You need to be able to compensate contributors for many long hours of work creating storylines, art, etc. You don’t, so much, have to worry about solving really tricky coding problems.

As for artificial intelligence… when I went through our computer science department’s instruction on the issue, it was awfully disappointing to see just how little intelligence there IS out there yet… and the few methods that do ‘learn’ do so very slowly and only in a controlled fashion… It was quite disheartening when I had to settle on a final project idea and couldn’t think of anything to do that met my criteria of AI. It all seemed so… fake. (Ended up doing something with image processing, not that anyone cares.)

#25
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
The coding required to do a multipath story game or even a mild sim isn't difficult at all, a student could easily pull it off if they didn't get bored halfway through.

I think this phrase holds to why many of us jump into CS, before we knew it was too late. Fortunately for me, we had a class called Software Engineering Project, which we had to (in two months), made a fully functional program according to some critera. The purpose of the class was to give us a sample of real life outside, as it was graded from the installation difficulty down to user interface. Though I passed the class (actually, it was a whole-classroom project), it gave me a good insight of what programming REALLY is, despite all the surrounding glamour. And, that's why I am now a sys admin! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]


quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
As for artificial intelligence... when I went through our computer science department's instruction on the issue, it was awfully disappointing to see just how little intelligence there IS out there yet... and the few methods that do 'learn' do so very slowly and only in a controlled fashion... It was quite disheartening when I had to settle on a final project idea and couldn't think of anything to do that met *my* criteria of AI. It all seemed so... fake. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] (Ended up doing something with image processing, not that anyone cares.)

Well, I bet you it won't have passed Turing's test! ^_^

Anyway, I must add something really off-topic: CS is NOT what most people think it is (or at least, according to my college curriculum). People think CS involves people dealing with programming or the actual use of the computer (such as servers and/or installing/configuring). CS is more on the line of theoretical knowledge, and we uses programming (slightly) only to see how it works. We deal with stuff like flip-flops, gates, data structure, handlers, exceptions, expert systems (yuck!), virtual machines, etc. The reason why CS graduate deals with (or have knowledge of) programming languages is because we like to "play" with some of our knowledge, but most of us just quit real-life programming just because it is a different setting (in college it was a challenge to do neat stuff, that challenge was changed to deadlines when dealing with real-life situations).

#26

hmmmh
im kinda sad now
someone talked mean to me
mmmmmmh

ohwell, i guess its fair
the other day i was mean to a dumb teenager because he had funny ideas about govt and capitalism being evil
yeah…younger people are always dumb idealists…i guess now i know what it feels like to be on the younger end…

i guess theres no escaping the real world…

[This message has been edited by exoarchaeologist (edited 04-17-2002).]

#27
quote:
Originally posted by fxho:
And, that's why I am now a sys admin! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

Heh, and nobody believes me when I say the same thing. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Though it wasn't my software engineering class that put me off of programming, it was data structures where the professor insisted we program in LISP!

quote:

(in college it was a challenge to do neat stuff, that challenge was changed to deadlines when dealing with real-life situations).

No kidding! It is a big change that many people do not deal well with. When you're a student programming there's a bit more freedom. Even when you're assigned a project, you have a freedom in it's implementation that you don't get later on in work enviroment.

And it does seem that students put out more output than regular workers. Seems to. First off, usually you're programming for fun and enjoy what you're actually programming. You don't have a deadline that you absolutely have to meet and sometimes those deadlines aren't realistic. There's not the intensive testing that goes on. (My personal hell of putting together a large binder of a test plan and results from a one line piece of code.) And you don't usually have to provide mounds of documentation to go along with what you program.

And we're not really try to talk down to anyone, it's just that some of us older CS people have been through all this. We were young once as well and probably had the same thoughts and ideas once. But we've had experiences since then and we're trying to share them.

Err, topic, topic, what the heck was the topic again? Oh that's right. Hmm, I think we did answer the main topic early on...we've just gone on a scenic tour afterwards. Aren't BBS' fun? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

#28

I had seen two episodes of Gibo. As far as I remember, there are mosaics on the screen most of the time. I barely remember anything else.

#29
quote:
Originally posted by Logicgate:
I had seen two episodes of Gibo. As far as I remember, there are mosaics on the screen most of the time. I barely remember anything else.

You mean that you've seen the anime!?

#30

Yes, I had seen it.

#31