LewdGamer Interview thread

Visual Novel Community Off Topic
#11

@ Peter Payne


"Steam patches are part of the overall business environment of selling 18+ software in 2015."


"Among other things, we can't charge a price that the Japanese parent company will agree to let us charge."


If "official" steam patches are part of your business strategy going forward and the JAST store prices are fixed, then I'm in agreement with Dark Shiki that this is something that needs to be looked at.


For one this setup will obviously preclude simultaneous adult and steam releases as is MG's current practice. I don't think it'll hurt steam sales to release their version a few months after the adult version but I am concerned about current JAST customers who may decide to wait for the steam game.


The JAST download does offer some benefits (earlier release, no patching required, and DRM-free) but I'm concerned these benefits may not be strong enough to stop a significant segment of your existing customers from delaying their purchase until the steam version is released.


If you're going to keep this model in place you'll have to add some value to the JAST downloads. Obvious choices would be digital soundtracks and art books, however I don't think that would be strong enough of a deterrent. Maybe the ability to later purchase ome heavily discounted hard copy on j-list could be another benefit (not sure how the JAST and J-List are different companies thing would come into play though).


Another idea would be access to an exclusive mobile version download (adult and/or all ages) of the game that comes with your adult version (dl & hardcopy). I'm not sure if there's enough collective demand for such a version or if the development costs would outweigh the loss in revenue from cheaper steam games but its something to consider.


I do understand your current strategy though. All your games are DRM-free so a steam patch is only a matter of time (might as well give your new steam customers a helping hand) but at the same time the loss of revenue is something you should look into especially if you're considering to increase the volume of games sold on steam.


As a reference point, I personally hold out on all of MG's initial game releases until they either release a hard copy or I'm certain a hard copy won't appear and they put the game on sale for 50% off (the only exceptions I've made to this rule thus far is for the three Lilith games they've released).


Another approach to steam all together would be to raise the steam price much closer to your own digital price and to effectively use the steam page as an advertizement for your adult versions that include a free steam key. Most of your steam revenues would come from periodic steam sales. This method also wouldn't preclude a simultaneous release for the adult and steam versions. I think this is the approach a Japanese company would use but it may result in you loosing more money than you would under the current approach (with the tradeoff being higher visibility for your own retail sites).


Sorry for the long wall-o-text post; just wanted to share my thoughts on this issue.

#12

The concern I have is that JAST store customers will emigrate to Steam, and as a result sales of the adult versions will stagnate or fall while sales of the all-ages versions will rise. Japanese companies will look at these sales numbers and think, "Is an adult version even necessary?". Peter might know better, but the Japanese companies won't, and they might start digging their heels in about issues like mosaics if they see no point in appealing to the 18+ market in the first place.


This is one of those subtle ways that Steam could actually sabotage the adult market, and unfortunately it's bound to happen whether Peter publically endorses Steam restoration patches or not. I don't think raising Steam prices is a viable solution, because that will just sabotage sales and no one is going to agree to that. Lowering JAST store prices to match the Steam version is one potential solution, but Japanese companies are going to be very resistant to that. I'm sure JAST already has a great deal of trouble convincing Japanese companies to accept the current English version price cut; any further and they might simply walk away from negotiations. It's just a bad situation all around. As a customer that supports JAST but also doesn't want to feel like I'm paying a premium for no good reason, I'm not sure what to do.

#13

"It’s just a bad situation all around. As a customer that supports JAST but also doesn’t want to feel like I’m paying a premium for no good reason, I’m not sure what to do."

I’d say the answer is to increase the value of the more expensive product as I described above. We can debate over what that would actually be but I’m in agreement that the status quo will most likely cause a shift in buying behavior (at least for those titles that do make it to steam) if left unchecked.

†

#14

I don't really think you can achieve parity between two versions of the same game with digital content, so long as 3rd parties are subverting the difference. If they can make a restoration patch, they can easily include the bonus goodies with that. And then you start to tread into the grey waters of what is merely a "fan modification" and what is just blatant piracy. I feel the only true differentiation that can be achieved between an adult version and a censored Steam version is in a boxed release. A boxed adult version is a different product that fans will buy for collector reasons. As for the digital version? Customers will simply tend to go for the best deal, and that means the JAST shop will lose relevance over time.

#15

"I don't really think you can achieve parity between two versions of the same game with digital content, so long as 3rd parties are subverting the difference."


If that content is purely digital goods (artbook or OST) I'd agree with you, but there are other factors that can make a difference such as the time delay between the adult and steam release, error/glitch free product delivered on launch, lack of DRM, ability for digital customers to inexpensively upgrade to a hard copy (LE), etc. I think these are the types of things we should focus on.


"I feel the only true differentiation that can be achieved between an adult version and a censored Steam version is in a boxed release."


I don't think its the only means of differentiation but as someone who most certainly prefers a hard copy I can say it is an important means of differentiation.


"As for the digital version? Customers will simply tend to go for the best deal, and that means the JAST shop will lose relevance over time."


As long as Peter retains a healthy mix of genres this shouldn't come to pass; not every game released will have a steam edition. Although personally I wouldn't really mind if JAST became the site used to promote upcoming visual novels to fans and the place we go to redeem our DRM-free download vouchers included in our hard copies. Not sure how international customers would feel about that though...


Looking at the big picture though I think its very possible, and quite likely, that Peter has already considered the issue of lost of revenues and has written it off on account that any game sold on steam will make more money (JAST and Steam revenues combined) than any of his adult only titles.


Peter, if that's the case let us know and we can stop spinning our wheels!

#16

I think you're right: the JAST shop losing relevance isn't necessarily bad in itself. Like I said, my fear is that Japanese companies will get the wrong idea if digital sales of 18+ versions fall sharply. I don't mind if the JAST shop just becomes the place I go to redeem my boxed version preorder digital code. But if I have to choose between a digital download for $40 on JAST's site and $25 on Steam (with a Steam restoration patch), I'll go for the cheaper option.


So when's that Steam version of Raidy 3 coming out?

#17

Peter Payne: "Remember that these companies live in a magical fairy land where H-games can be sold for 8800 yen/US$78.00 with mosaic censorship. They say things like, "But we never dropped the price in Japan, how come you need to do that in the U.S."


Isnt the price actually 9240 yen? That seems to be Japan "59.99" and yes as someone who bought quite a few japanese version to use with the fan translated patches I can say that they indeed never lower the price, like ever, the only time when there is a price cut is if a "low price" version gets released many years later.


The selling model of eroges usually goes like this:


Release a first print limited edition of the game.


Either release a regular edition at the same time as the first print limited edition or release one after a few months. (some games only had a first print limited edition released, such as Comyu, which I am guessing is because the game was a flop?)

#18

I would just love for JAST to make their limited edition hardcopies worth it. Just look at the LE version of Raidy 3. It comes with a game manual, 12 game cards, and a large outer box. Wooo. If it's anything like the Littlewitch hardcopy then everything included will fit in the disc case rendering the large box useless. To make things worse, there's nothing to hold the disc case in place within the large box to prevent it from rattling around.

#19

@ B_Dun

I’m not that big a fan of the large boxes either; also if you’re short on space you can’t really afford too many of these big boxes…

For a single disc release I’d much rather prefer a slipcase, that has the same dimensions as the disc (as was done for Demonbane), which can hold the game case and the smaller bonus item(s). I’d just make the slipcase a little thicker (chipboard) for Limited Edition releases.

If there’s an art book as a bonus item its ok if it doesn’t fit in the game box because It’ll most likely go on people’s bookshelf anyways.

For special occasions it would be nice if JAST could commission a collectable metal art box made by Paul Champagne. For example if JAST releases Lewdness and Dominance in addition to Starless it would be awesome to be able to store them in one of these collector’s boxes. They could also commission metal boxes for their Nitro+ games.

#20

Let's be honest: the Raidy series probably isn't going to generate the amount of fan enthusiasm that games like Starless and Shiny Days will. Those games are getting better LEs. For a $10 premium, you have to limit your expectations.

#21

It’s at least a $20 premium considering the steam price…

#22

Sure. I wasn’t even interested in Raidy until I saw the yuri tag. However, even the Starless LE release is okay at best. The interview is nice but an artbook of sketches from the game isn’t too great in my opinion. You already get the art in the game, why do you need to see it in half completed forms? As for Shiny Days, that LE is a bit better. Unfortunately, I have no interest in that series.

@HyugaX, I agree that a slipcase would be pretty nice. MG’s Ef hardcopy release was really nice. I don’t mind the big box, I just don’t want all that useless space on the inside. They should add more goodies to fill up the space at the very least.

#23

Your voice was fine, and you shed some light on a few things like people have mentioned. When it can come to problems with dealing with companies and things outside your control like the VA prices. I think saturation could be a problem on steam and getting a game noticed could become lot more difficult. But you could also bring in a new audience base.


Depending on the company they usually have sales on stuff after time, more so with the DL. You also have games that are shorter length in the 3,000yen, then you have some around 5,900 yen. So it depends on the title.


I've got my order for Raidy down since I do enjoy the style of the game and a light dungeon crawl.

I would say if the LE are gonna be a premium product for fans adding content in is a nice thing. You could do a price draw lottery for high appeal games. A give away for a exclusive item related to the game, like a signed drawing or something exclusive from the development team on a first run or a pre-order through J-list exclusive, something which your third party sellers wouldn't have.

#24

It'd be amusing to have a Kickstarter-like promotion for a preorder. The game would be guaranteed to come out; the draw would be the preorder goodies. Imagine several tiers of goodies with different price points. As the number of "funders" increases, new tiers would unlock allowing people to pay more for even more goodies. If you bid into a higher tier than ended up getting funded, your "bid" would be automatically reduced to the highest funded tier. I think this would draw out all the crazy collectors and give rabid fans some incentive to get people excited about the game. Obviously this would only work for a game people really cared about.

#25

The cockblock is, most kickstarter projects of an adult nature are canned right away by Kickstarter.

#26

Couldn't you set J-List up to do something like this though? It'd just be a typical preorder with like 8 different versions a user could select from, and the credit card would be charged at the end of the promotion rather than right before the game ships.

#27

@ Peter Payne


"The cockblock is, most kickstarter projects of an adult nature are canned right away by Kickstarter."


Well there's always the route Sekai took with Grisaia keeping the campaign all-ages until the very end and later on letting people switch their pledges around to the adult after version using BackerKit. Not sure if that may jeopardize future KS projects for them but its been done before.


Also with your online infrastrucure in place you wouldn't even have to use such an overt ruse. You could just add a DLC card to each copy of the game that is redeemable for a DRM-free copy of either the adult or all-ages version on your website (same as your doing with your current LEs).


As long as your Japanese licensor is on board, and the game is still playable with H-scenes removed, its a strategy worth considering. Not even steam comes close to KS in terms of publicity; just compare MangaGamer's minori fundraiser to Clannad and Grisaia... (message re-posted from this thread)

"It'd be amusing to have a Kickstarter-like promotion for a preorder."

I suggested this before and I think it can work well by bringing fans a game they want and getting your company additional name recognition. For this to work though the title you pick needs to be too big to ignore (to ensure full press coverage), something like Mahoutsukai no Yoru, and you need to explain why you're using crowd funding (VA mafia) for the title so it doesn't look like your using the campaign as a ploy for attention.

I think J-List already has the infrastructure in place for such a campaign all you need is the title and the parent company's blessings.

Looking at both approaches, KS is the safer route while using J-List is more risky but if you use J-List you're bringing tons of potential new customers right to your store's doorstep.
#28

To be fair, Clannad had a wildly popular anime and Grisaia’s fan translation was very well received. A lot of people knew what those two series were going into the Kickstarters. Grisaia even had an anime adaptation around the time of the Kickstarter. MangaGamer’s fundraiser is sort of buried. You have to actually dig around to find it. It’s also based on the sales of other games. It’s not a great premise.

I like the Kickstarter route because you see the interest before committing completely. It’s also great for drumming up hype. Sekai did a fine job with the Clannad KS. Their Grisaia KS is a good model to follow. An all-ages campaign with the promise of an adult version afterwards is a nice route. Just try have a solid plan in place as well as green-lights if you do stretch goals for other platforms like the PS Vita. It’s been months since the end of the KS and there’s still be no real progress on that front for the Grisaia KS. That was well as my dislike for a few other things Sekai did for the Grisaia KS resulted in me refunding my hardcopy pledge. Anyway, their model is a good model to follow. Just manage it better.

#29
#30