Lolicon might just have got dangerous

To be honest, I don’t think the political parties have any idea what they are either. 150 years ago the Democrats supported the oppression of minorities and poor. It was the Republicans that vouched for abolishment of slavery and greater control of economic greed. Basically the two parties are total opposites of what they originally were in the first place.

Goes to show you how screwed up politics is. :stuck_out_tongue:

Unfortunately it’s probably better to have these two incompetent juggernauts, than only have one around.

Personally I support the [color=red]If It Ain’t Killing, Hurting or Oppressing Someone Else Against Their Freewill, Then Leave It the Fuck Alone Party[/color] (IIAKHOSEATF TLIFAP)… which sadly to say, doesn’t even exist.

Well, as a logical extension from that, if you give someone a gun and they shoot it, they’ll start enjoying shooting it more and more and soon they’ll want to start shooting people with it.

I say they can ban loli when they come up with some hard numbers showing that it’s turning good Christian dads into hardcore pedophiles.

As an avid target shooter I would agree with Lancer and like to see those numbers for that loli cake analysis :lol: Esspecially since I never get the urge to shoot people, if anything I get the urge to punch or kick them Bruce Lee style upside the chin. :twisted:

Just felt I had to throw my 2 cents into the fountain

Never heard of the cake metaphore before… however I know where that guy got the idea: Patrick Carnes

Not that I agree with the research (and it was obviously biased), but it went like this…

According to that research, lolicon would be the Level 1 or the First Stage.

Take it with a grain of salt though. The same “research” has been applied to homosexuality too. :roll:

Outside of genes and biology, scientists are pretty clueless to sexuality: [u]especially[/u] the psychological aspects.

You can take my lolis from my cold, dead hands? :smiley:

If it’s loli twincest, I don’t think there’s a force in the world that could pry it from Narg’s death grip :smiley:

I could. :twisted:

Okay, now prove me fictional characters don’t have a freewill.

…because it seems people in power in the USA, the UK and Australia think otherwise. They’re people too, you know?

Not in the US. That argument was already tried by the State Department, in an attempt to copy our cousins down under. That case fell flat. Fictional characters can be owned or protected under IP laws. Therefore it means they’re property. Which means they’re slaves. Constitution clearly outlines that slavery is illegal. You can’t own a person. Therefore if cartoons have legal rights of protection as a real person, that means companies can’t exploit a profit off them or enforce copyrights in court. You can bet your bippy that Disney, Hasbro, Nintendo, and every other company with a mascot or figurehead toyline (such as Barbie or GI Joe), would fight that case with millions (if not billions) in lawyer money. Not a can of worms the State Department would win.

On a side note however…

This Cincinnati teenager killed herself, because nude pics of her were floating around the Internet. Full article is here. Tragic. I feel for them. However her family wants to make a law that has sexting as illegal.

Fuck no.

First Amendment violation for one thing. Secondly that law could be interpreted to extend into “digital” medium (since a cellphone is an electronic device). Yea… visual novels, cybersex, sex stories posted online. My gut tells me it wouldn’t last a day in proceedings (for the reasons I mentioned and more), but it’s worth watching out for just in case.

I wish people would understand that Laws are blunt objects that impact entire societies, not surgical tools to fix personal family problems. :roll:

Sorry, Narg, but I have to disagree on this point. It’s perfectly easy to construct legislation that would be narrowly tailored enough to deal with the specific issue being presented here without any risk of overregulation. Whether they’re necessary is another point – I think generally they are, for the same reason voyeurism is illegal.

It’s simple enough: The boyfriend knew she intended the picture only for him. He knew the tendency for rumors to snowball beyond anyone’s control. In particular, he specifically knew (or should have known) how quickly stuff like this spreads online. Yet he chose to send the pictures anyway. The effect of the behavior is clearly an invasion of privacy. If he had plastered physical copies of the photo all over town, or had mailed hard copies to everyone in the student directory, he probably would have got in trouble. But the laws (apparently) don’t extend to this.

There is plenty of precedent for invasion-of-privacy laws. The First Amendment is no bar to regulating invasion of privacy, because it is not an absolute bar. Other rights must be weighed against it, and in this case, the subject’s right to privacy has been historically recognized as generally trumping free speech in similar circumstances. Were it otherwise, anti-upskirt-cam laws would be unconstitutional, and so would laws preventing wiretapping.

In this particular case, I see no problem with a regulation prescribing that adult photos of real people (with an appropriately narrow definition) cannot be forwaded, or otherwise republished, to anyone the sender does not give permission to disseminate them to. Porn producers already have contracts and other legal paperwork with their actors and actresses, all they have to do is add a mandatory “I acknowledge that the acts in question will be distributed to the world at large” disclaimer. Similarly for websites that permit user-uploaded content; it’s just another paragraph in the Terms of Service. To avoid problems with the huge existing body of material, exempt all previously-produced images. To avoid someone sending pictures, then claiming the recipient himself is unauthorized, the act of sending could be considered consent for the recipient to receive the images.

EDIT: Of course, this would be a reasonable approach to the problem. As such, this will probably be nothing like the regulation actually proposed, which will no doubt be outlandishly outrageous. Like make the person who sent the photos (i.e. the victim) responsible for invading his/her own privacy, or force all camera manufacturers to prevent their products from being used to take nekkid pictures.

Even if legislation passed in a manner such as you’ve described Nandemonai, I don’t know how it could be effectively enforced. The main reason why is because of how much cell phones can change hands. Whether this comes about through theft, lending (even for a few minutes), selling (publicly or privately), or even recycling, the fact is that even if a person did disseminate the picture, it would almost certainly be a nightmare to actual prove.

If you can point out to me a single piece of federal legislation which concerns pornography, that’s “narrowly tailored” to only cover one subject matter in a specific case scenario, then I’ll concede. But every federal law I’ve seen, that regulates porn or obscenity, always is intentionally written in a vague mannerism. They did it with the Child Online Protection Act. They did it with US Code 1462. They did it with the PROTECT Act. Etc. Etc. Etc. Intentionally or not, that’s why they consistantly get smacked down, after wasting millions in tax dollars and years in court battles.

There’s already indecency laws and child pornography laws that prohibit children from distributing porno pics of themselves. Why make more? You’ve got them on two charges right there, which last I checked, carry a combined total sentence of 40 years. What’s another 20 gonna do? That’s reactionary conservative lawmaking (99.9% chance of a bad law). Furthermore, it’s predominantly CHILDREN doing this to themselves. Lock up all the 16 year olds involved, until they’re 76 years old? That’s not gonna happen.

It’s the [u]PARENTS[/u] who need to do something about this… not the government. I’ve got one easy solution: don’t buy their kids a phone with a digital camera on it… or get a service without sending images. Done and done. No clunky law that can be used to screw over law abiding citizens on a technicallity. Teen boyfriend took a picture of your teen daughter? No new law needed. That’s child porn. He gets punished with the laws we already have. Up to 40 years if you’re especially vindictive and convince a jury. Again: that extra 20 ain’t needed. 40 years is more than enough to destroy some’s life.

Yup, the First Amendment doesn’t do a thing about invasion of privacy. Why? Because that’s protected by the Third (home), Fourth (person and possessions), Ninth (general coverage), and Fourteenth Amendments (spirit of liberty). It’s so sacred, we have that many for protection. Check out the infamous Roe v. Wade for example… and that’s murder to some people.

Not to mention it’s easy to alter or delete a SIM Card: you can buy the stuff online. Some of the new laptops already have reader/writers built into them.
Screwing around with your cell is a lot easier than filing off the serial numbers on a gun…

This is a very serious issue. It would indeed be very difficult to prove in most cases. But not in the instant case! Here we know exactly what went down – it was in the article, so someboy told some reporter what happened. The boyfriend sent it to four girls, who then sent it on. Predictable chaos ensues.

All you would have to prove is the content of the original message which was sent said “don’t send this to anyone else” and that he sent it on anyway. Records of such may exist in the phone company’s servers.

All kinds of similar laws are on the books that are just as hard to prove. And they don’t get used all that often, and when they do, often the prosecution fails. But I disagree this is a reason not to pass the law – only that people should face reality. Just because something is hard, you shouldn’t try? Arthur Anderson’s obstruction of justice conviction was overturned. It should not have been. They did it on purpose specifically to destroy evidence of wrongdoing relevant to an investigation. People perjure themselves in court all the time. Hardly anyone ever gets prosecuted for it. Should we repeal these laws?

The problem isn’t that the law wouldn’t do very much good; it’s more what Narg said (and I even acknowledged in my own footnote): they wouldn’t pass a nice reasonable regulation something like my proposal. They would consider it, say “but this wouldn’t actually do anything”, and instead we’ll just bust everyone involved for making kiddy porn of themselves or something equally outrageous. Except in this case the victim isn’t a minor.

In fact I bet that’s what they wanted to do – arrest everyone involved for kiddy porn, but she wasnt underage, so now they somehow will want to make anyone receiving nude photos in email a crime. And for the record, yes I do agree: That would be retarded.

Not only would this be kind of hard to do nowadays, that’s just treating the symptom (stupid behavior) of the problem (ignorance). I got a better idea: Sit your daughter down and explain what happened to Paris Hilton and her little video. And how even with all the billions of dollars the Hiltons have to hire not-really-all-that-small armies of lawyers, all the king’s horses and all the king’s men couldn’t put the genie back in the bottle again. It even went down the same way: boyfriend leaked it.

Hold on a second, why am I catching all the flack here? I wasn’t saying that we shouldn’t try, Narg was the one saying that. I’m staying neutral on that aspect for now. I was simply pointing out the difficulty of enforcing such a measure.

THe first part of my reply was directed at the comment that it would be hard to enforce. It would :slight_smile:

I did kind of then go off on a segue into a different topic though. That wasn’t directed at you personally. Apologies for any confusion.

I just stumbled on this (old) Sankaku article. The interesting point is the statistics report. Even while leaving aside valid questions of definition, reporting versus occurrence, relative numbers of children, etc, notice that Japan has about 300 cases compared to the USA’s 50,000, which would equal 21,000 for Japan when adjusted for population. That’s 42 times more, despite Japan’s over-abundance of material aimed at lolicons (e.g. games) – or 20,700 more cases. No matter how you could brush aside social differences, underreporting, stricter definitions of “child abuse”, etc., that’s still forty-two times more!

Yup. Yup.

In fact, a decade ago Milton Diamond (one the world’s leading experts in sexual psychology and disorders) released a detailed research thesis that outlined this very thing.

You can read the entire essay here: http://www2.hu-berlin.de/sexology/BIB/D … graphy.htm

Very concise research, with open references to where and how data was collected. One might disagree with his conclusion, but you can’t argue against the facts being presented. It’s hard logic, raw and simple. Naturally the ultra conservatives don’t advertise information like this… it completely undermines their bias agenda. They just focus on what they feel will further their own ends: not the overall truth.

14 year old girl will be registered as a sex offender? Of course not. :roll:

http://www.cnn.com/video/#/video/bestof … harges.cnn

I’ve said it over and over again… the Law is a blunt weapon, not a surgical tool.