Question: Game Genres

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#21

Some examples of bgames where you need to make one girl fall in love with you: Pia Carrot 1,2&3, Kakyuusei, etc. Unfortunately, all of them are non-translated Japanese games.

Yet, you have a point. There are a lot of bgames with all kind of romantic elements. In my Renai games group we talk alot about romantic-sim games, but almost never about junai games.
Better forget this renai/junai think and call them just ‘romantic-sim’ games.

[This message has been edited by Peter Gilis (edited 07-20-2004).]

#22

I wonder why none of the ones you mentioned were translated or ones like them, why the attempt was not at least made with one game of that nature. Though is LMM a chance at this type of game, from the demo it seems like it might be is it?

As to those current in release, it seems even to varying degrees the following three games are setting a trend of games with at least some dark aspects. Gibo, Jewel Knights, Slave Pageant all seem to be moves drastically away from any type of romantic love, though I guess one can argue that there is some sense of love in the games by the end even if it is not “romantic love”.

Possible Spoiler

In this case I am thinking that any game where you start by raping the girl, as in all of the three aforementioned games, who later falls in love with you or forgives you since she already loved you, is not romantic love, sounds more like cheesy soap opera love to me, the one you rape at first ends up loving you or forgiving you because she already loved you.

End Possible Spoiler

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 07-20-2004).]

#23

It would be nice if we had Pia Carot translated, as I liked the anime. So Pia Carot would be considered pure love? I’m not sure about the game but in the anime the protagonist sleeps with a different girl each episode so how does he only fall in love and sleeps with only 1 girl in the game?

#24
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Gilis:
I think maybe CRESCENDO is not a Ren'ai (Pure Love) game, but it's a Jun'ai (True Love) game, where you try to find your "true love" with many dramatic momments.

It's the other way round. Ren'ai = True Love and Jun'ai = Pure Love

Maybe just a clarification, some of you seem to have misunderstood that pure love = life long partner while true love = mulitiple one night stands. From the classification at getchu, I can safely say that this isn't correct.

Most pure love games tend to depict YOUNG female characters as totally angelic and without flaws; true love games give their female characters a more wholesome character.

#25
quote:
Originally posted by NeMiSiS:
It's the other way round. Ren'ai = True Love and Jun'ai = Pure Love

Maybe just a clarification, some of you seem to have misunderstood that pure love = life long partner while true love = mulitiple one night stands. From the classification at getchu, I can safely say that this isn't correct.

Uoooopss... my mistake. Sorry!! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

quote:

Most pure love games tend to depict YOUNG female characters as totally angelic and without flaws; true love games give their female characters a more wholesome character.

I understand. The boys/girls on True Love games don't need to be so pure and angelical. In other words... *Evil grins* [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

#26
quote:
Originally posted by wanfu2k1:
It would be nice if we had Pia Carot translated, as I liked the anime. So Pia Carot would be considered pure love? I'm not sure about the game but in the anime the protagonist sleeps with a different girl each episode so how does he only fall in love and sleeps with only 1 girl in the game?

In the game version, the protagonist don't have so much sexual encounters per game. Just one, maybe even two with the same girl, but never more than that.

He needs to work out at the restaurant, and you choose his schredule. It's during work he see many of the girls, but they will not fall for him so easily.
Each girl has her own tastes and preferences, so he needs to work out to rise his parameters and change the feelings of the girls towards him. It's very hard to change the feelings of more than one girl.

Just a little advice: generally an adult anime version is far more H** than the game version itself (even why, the producers need to put 20+ hours of gaming (re)playability in just 2+ episodes of 25 minutes each).

#27
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Gilis:
Just a little advice: generally an adult anime version is far more H** than the game version itself (even why, the producers need to put 20+ hours of gaming (re)playability in just 2+ episodes of 25 minutes each).

I second that.

That's what disgusted me about the Wind of Ebenbourgh-anime: Claude McDonal was entirely OOC when he suddenly bedded any pretty girl within sight!

I still love the game, though...

#28

I know we should all take rumors for what they are worth, but even in the past there was no hint that these Pia Carot games might possibly be or have been considered for translation?

Something along the lines of, they were considered but even if they never even made the Beta testing stage, that they fell through for, at least publicly given, reasons similar to what they are saying about Princess Maker having fallen through?

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 07-21-2004).]

#29
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Something along the lines of, they were considered but even if they never even made the Beta testing stage, that they fell through for, at least publicly given, reasons similar to what they are saying about Princess Maker having fallen through?

Sorry, but not even that.

I fear, F+C doesn't believe in the english-speaking bishoujo-market yet. And who wants to blame them?

#30

In some ways I don’t blame them in other ways I ask what’s the harming in at least trying through using an established seller in this market? If it does not work, they won’t try again for a long time if it does then they still sneak in when the market is young. So yeah I understand but still think these places should at least consider more seriously trying before just saying ‘no’.

#31

You know, maybe I just don’t know any better, but it might be possible that at some later point when (thinking optimistically) the English market has grown more, some of these projects that have been initially turned down might be reconsidered as more viable.

#32

I still don’t understand what the harm would be for one of these companies to start floating a rumor out there about any game they curious about, being released in the near future in this market, and then sit back and see the response in places such as these boards, but many such boards.

If they get a huge rush of people asking, when and how much, they might have a hit and either way there is no cost involved in spreading a rumor and watching the responses is there?

Yeah they don’t need too, but it still might be easier for these companies to join the party while the night’s still young, to use an analogy, rather then waiting until the market is established and they need a VIP pass to get in the door and stand a chance at making money.

#33

I hope SCDawg is correct about the English gaming market being poised to take off, but I have my doubts. Recent history seems to indicate very low sales and return on investment. A Japanese company trying to cultivate overseas business is something like an American car company trying to introduce an export model, only on a much smaller scale. There are too many barriers and investment costs are high. The few companies that have actually released dual language games have seen minimal return and high support costs.

Licensing titles to foreign developers is less expensive, but even that is a strain for resource-strapped companies struggling to survive in their own domestic market. I think our best hope lies in companies like PP and GC improving their development and promotional resources to the point where translations can be viewed as a low cost, low risk investment for the Japanese.

#34

But can’t that be said about any “new” business? At first almost anything is a huge investment with little return, except maybe for a/c in the south and heaters in the north, yet if you never make that first investment how can a market grow?

My hope is based on the fact they will piggyback through companies such as Peach Princess and G-Collections in the very near future. Yes these companies must have time to translate which could take some time at present but the more money that comes in, in theory the larger the staff and the quicker the translations without sacrificing quality. Also as I see it, the best part from the Japanese company’s point of view could be that once they sell the rights to translate the game, they can reap some of the profit and not have lots of expenditure since that would be mostly with the translation company including support. Yes it might put more cost and pressure on companies over here, which might be equally bad, but the less the others have to spend the more willing they might be to take a risk. So yet at present it might be lots of initial investment for the hope and belief and I think truth of lots of return in the future. People have to look to the future in new markets right?

#35

The question is who’s going to make that investment? Until PP improves its 9-month turnaround cycle or GC runs out of cd-bros titles to import, neither company can afford to purchase rights for games that might sit on the shelf for years. Payne-sama may have tipped his hand about where PP is thinking of venturing next with his yaoi game post, and it’s not older ren’ai or jun’ai releases.

What you are asking is for a company with cash reserves, experienced staff and marketing savvy to take the plunge. Would that be the Japanese authoring houses? Unless I’m sorely mistaken, most overseas companies are operating on lean budgets now. They have to strain to make production deadlines for the only profitable market that exists today, Japan.

The only possibility I can see would be for one of the mainstream game manufacturers to expand into the b-game field. If a Square Enix or Sega were to take up the gauntlet, things might change in a hurry. Given the marketing obstacles that lie in the way, I don’t see that happening either.

#36

9-month turnaround cycle? Longer than that. I don’t know of ANY of their titles that have been out in 9 months, excepting possibly XChange and Snow Drop (which were both rather quick).

#37
quote:
Originally posted by Wolfson:
You know, maybe I just don't know any better, but it might be possible that at some later point when (thinking optimistically) the English market has grown more, some of these projects that have been initially turned down might be reconsidered as more viable.

No, I think you're probably right. I've thought that all along, I just never actually came out and said so in these discussions. The thing is, by the time the market expands that much, where are we going to be? It'll be several years from now at least. It is very possible that many of the games people are interested in now will be archaic relics by the time the market is expanded enough.

#38
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
What you are asking is for a company with cash reserves, experienced staff and marketing savvy to take the plunge. Would that be the Japanese authoring houses? Unless I'm sorely mistaken, most overseas companies are operating on lean budgets now. They have to strain to make production deadlines for the only profitable market that exists today, Japan.

No that would be companies over here, perhaps ones that make additional income through something other then just the games, and yes 9 or longer months is a long time, but who gives a .... so long as they at least break even though hopefully make even a small amount of money when they are out? Also people are far to conservative in their thinking, yes companies do not want to take risks, but cash reserves are very hard to come by in any new market, even one that is being started by established companies in another market.

Isn't the major issue you are all mentioning money not time, if it is money then time is irrelevant since money made after 9 months is still money made; if it is time which is the major issue, time to make a quick release, then money might still be relevant but only in that a lot of money means quicker turnaround and in theroy a chance at greater sales through a quicker turnaround. Yet once again money made after 9 months time is still money made, which if that is the only issue should be enough for the companies.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 07-21-2004).]

#39
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
No, I think you're probably right. I've thought that all along, I just never actually came out and said so in these discussions. The thing is, by the time the market expands that much, where are we going to be? It'll be several years from now at least. It is very possible that many of the games people are interested in now will be archaic relics by the time the market is expanded enough.

It may not be as bad as all that... there are still a few of the older games that are on the Memorial Collections, like Nocturnal Illusions and Season of the Sakura, that people still point to as good games and personal favorites, and how outdated are those? Think happy thoughts, my friend... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

#40

I am starting to think that is the way many of these games we are hoping for will eventually end up coming over, in the packaged collections. Yes DOR flopped, but imagine if DOR had been the first two Princess Makers, non adult, but still older games by now and at the time they would have been released would that collection have flopped?