Waiting on XC2

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#121
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
Sorry for not being clear. What I meant was these are commissioned works. The game companies decide what pictures are needed and the artists draw them. Why would they request images that include mosaics or space for mosaics when they could simply ask for graphics that don't require censorship? So my conclusion is that the game companies ask for explicit drawings.

Okay, I can see where you're coming from now. Hmm, it would really depend on the company on whether they requested explicit or not. Most of the companies know that their market is Japan and that the games are put together with that in mind. I would guess that if a company has an anticpation that their game may get put on a market besides Japan that they would request explicit images, since almost any overseas version would use those versions of the images. But if there's no plans for such a non-Japanese version, it probably wouldn't matter to them either way.

quote:

I guess it may be a matter of personal and cultural bias. I don't find mosaics aesthetic and don't see why the Japanese would either. The AV industry produces both hardcore and softcore material. If the intended market is softcore, that's the way it's filmed. Why should it be different for hentai?

Yup, you can't ever forget the cultural differences. I know one of the Japanese students back in college was shocked when he saw his first American porn movie. He grew up seeing only mosaics and seeing something in the clear like that was disturbing to him. He even tried to explain to me why he prefered the mosaics but I was much younger then and thought he was just nuts.

There are "softcore" titles out there, we just don't get them. What the market over here usually demands is the "hardcore" stuff, the more explicit the better. Think about how anime was when they first started coming over. The market was mainly clamoring for more action packed shows, and if they had cool robots, the better. Doesn't mean that there wasn't other more romantic, or historical animes out there, there wasn't a perceived market so there was little reason for people to bring those titles over when they had a sure fire hit with stuff like Robotech. But the market has expanded to include those other titles, and until the gaming market does the same, pretty much what we'll get is just the Japanese "hardcore" games.

#122
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
I guess it may be a matter of personal and cultural bias. I don't find mosaics aesthetic and don't see why the Japanese would either. The AV industry produces both hardcore and softcore material. If the intended market is softcore, that's the way it's filmed. Why should it be different for hentai?

Because you can be arrested for it?

#123
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
Because you can be arrested for it?

I didn't want to come right out and say it what Nandemonai had to say either, because the rebuttal for that kind of answer is usually 'that's stupid' or 'but so and so does such and such', but Nandemonai is correct.

[This message has been edited by bokmeow (edited 03-13-2003).]

#124

So you’re saying it’s legal to publish hentai with mosaics, but illegal to publish it without mosaics even when it doesn’t have explicit content? Now that’s stupid, IMHO.

#125
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
So you're saying it's legal to publish hentai with mosaics, but illegal to publish it without mosaics even when it doesn't have explicit content? Now that's stupid, IMHO.

America has the same safeguards. Media Blasters had to pull the underaged sex acts in order to avoid the possibility of legal litigations, but is Kite not basically the same as the original ones, with 'mosaics' on the underaged sex acts? Not stupid at all.

#126
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
So you're saying it's legal to publish hentai with mosaics, but illegal to publish it without mosaics even when it doesn't have explicit content? Now that's stupid, IMHO.

Stupid? No, not really. It's just a matter of cultural differences and perferences. In Japan, they may even think that this about us her ein the west wanting adult anime, adult bishoujo games, etc without mosaics is stupid. and in a way, it is stupid. But so is also the Japanese mosaics ^^;.

#127
quote:
Originally posted by ekylo:
There are "softcore" titles out there, we just don't get them. What the market over here usually demands is the "hardcore" stuff, the more explicit the better. Think about how anime was when they first started coming over. The market was mainly clamoring for more action packed shows, and if they had cool robots, the better. Doesn't mean that there wasn't other more romantic, or historical animes out there, there wasn't a perceived market so there was little reason for people to bring those titles over when they had a sure fire hit with stuff like Robotech. But the market has expanded to include those other titles, and until the gaming market does the same, pretty much what we'll get is just the Japanese "hardcore" games.

And that's probably what we'll get for quite a while. The B-game market is so far far smaller thna the anime market, so it may take quite some time before the market is a "power" in the way the anime market is. Perhaps, it may never expand that far. Hmm... Still, there are a couple of good omens to be seen [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]. But even so, it'll probably be quite a while before the market is as expanded as it could be.

#128
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
Now that's stupid, IMHO.

Who ever told, that laws have to be logical?
However, laws are laws and discussing them here leads nowhere...

#129
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
Thank god for that.

Defying your own company, aren't you?

#130
quote:
Originally posted by bokmeow:
I didn't want to come right out and say it what Nandemonai had to say either, because the rebuttal for that kind of answer is usually 'that's stupid' or 'but so and so does such and such', but Nandemonai is correct.

[This message has been edited by bokmeow (edited 03-13-2003).]

It may, in fact, be stupid. But that's more or less irrelevant to the current discussion, which is "why does the CG from old games need redrawing?"

A public policy debate can't and won't change what happened in the past. Which is what we're talking about; so saying "well, they should change that" is sort of irrelevant to this particular discussion. Which is why I chose that particular reply--the artwork was drawn that way because it was illegal not to at the time.

#131
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
So you're saying it's legal to publish hentai with mosaics, but illegal to publish it without mosaics even when it doesn't have explicit content? Now that's stupid, IMHO.

Define explicit content. The Japanese courts have, to my knowledge, ruled that you can't show penetration unmosaiced. Or, um, bodily fluid emissions. There are very specific rules.

#132
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Stupid? No, not really. It's just a matter of cultural differences and perferences. In Japan, they may even think that this about us her ein the west wanting adult anime, adult bishoujo games, etc without mosaics is stupid. and in a way, it is stupid. But so is also the Japanese mosaics ^^;.

I agree. Having the mosaics in the first place is stupid and, I feel, totally unnecessary. So is making a big deal out of it.

#133
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
Defying your own company, aren't you?

Shit, I wasn't supposed to let word of the merger leak out.

#134

Nandemonai, are you holding a conversation with yourself? 3 simultaneous posts and all.

#135
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
I agree. Having the mosaics in the first place is stupid and, I feel, totally unnecessary. So is making a big deal out of it.

I agree. We may not like the mosaics very much (althrough I mostly don't care either way), but why make such a big deal out of it? It's not much we can do to change it either way...

#136
quote:
Originally posted by bokmeow:
Nandemonai, are you holding a conversation with yourself? 3 simultaneous posts and all.

No, I'm just doing what I've always done--replied to all the new posts in a thread at once, individually.

#137

Just to clarify - I really don’t care about changing censorship laws or the way the game makers do their artwork. I was curious about why mosaics are needed unless the original pictures are explicit, i.e. show genitalia or whatever. I still don’t understand why they’re necessary if the originals never contained the offending details. Oh well, where’s that towel Unicorn had?

#138
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
Just to clarify - I really don't care about changing censorship laws or the way the game makers do their artwork. I was curious about why mosaics are needed unless the original pictures are explicit, i.e. show genitalia or whatever. I still don't understand why they're necessary if the originals never contained the offending details. Oh well, where's that towel Unicorn had? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/confused.gif[/img]


Ever seen the part in Outlaw star where both Melfina and Gene appear nude? It didn't go with mosaics or anything, but they just blanked everything out complete, so Gene looks like a Barbie Doll and So did Melfina. I think the mosaics are there so that it doesn't look even weirder, it's like censoring but not a full censor.


#139
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
I was curious about why mosaics are needed unless the original pictures are explicit, i.e. show genitalia or whatever. I still don't understand why they're necessary if the originals never contained the offending details.

Let's go to the linear notes... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

It probably depends on how the game publisher interpets this part of the law:
"...it is not necessary to avoid showing the pubic area, but there must not be any detail that can attract the attention of the audience... there must not be any anatomical particularities...".

How detailed does an image have to be before it starts to "attract the attention of the audient"? At what point does an image contain "anatomical particularities"? I thought someone mentioned it earlier, (I wasn't able to find it off-hand) the LMM artbook is a good guide in this. It does contain preliminary images of the graphics after all. In those preliminary images, there's no explicit details, but the color shading within the images is at a point where it could be interpreted as having "anatomical particularities".

Is that enough to make the images "illegal"? Maybe not, but also in the linear notes "...it is important to note that the bishoujo industry tends to adhere to its own self-censorship to prevent the government from cracking down and getting involved." So a company might decide to take the "better safe than sorry" approach in their images. I can see that being the case in these LMM images.

#140

Just wanted to return to the true purpose of this thread, the ‘waiting on XC2’. I haven’t heard much from Peach Princess lately, the last news letter mentions XC2 as the next new title, either that or Little My Maid, but is it even in master or duplication or anything like that? I’d love to place an order.