You know, I dont mind a half way decent dubv. I used to kinda watch anime and work on my computer, so the dubs were kind of nice. That was before I was really into japanese, but now that I am more interested in the language and such, I often find myself enjoying subs much more than dubs since american dubs are usually garbage. BUT I will say that golden boy is one of the best dubs ever, and is one of the rare cases where I prefer the dub over teh sub. That guy voicing shintaro is a genious hehe
quote:
Originally posted by Angry Gamer:
Started thinking about this after someone mentioned in the demosiac thread that dubs are more popular than subs...I mean, frankly only out of curiousity, I cannt comprehend why anyone would prfer dubs where the language usually does not fit the style of the movie or game. For eg, why would anyone watch dub anime/hentai or prefer to have voices in the games dubbed - it just seems so..........unnatrual ^^;
Not only Japanese in this case, I have watched some Polish & French movies before and never enetertained the option of switching the the English stream in the DVD.
The (confused) Angry Gamer
As was sumarized in previous posts, the biggest reason most of the current anime audience prefers dubs over subs is that dubs are easier to understand. You don't have to use brain-power-cycles to quickly read a line or two of text, and try to pay attention to the visuals on the screen as well.
It's kinda pathetic really... that people can't multitask at something as easy as that.
My problem with dubbing isn't so much the acting is the translations. Sometimes the dubbing is so different in both feeling and actual content that it isn't even close to the original meaning... and the only reason for the change is to "make the mouth sync up." (Okay, I do have other problems with dubbing too, but I'm feeling nice today, so I won't go on a bit of a tyrade.)
Anyway, to me, overall the dubs have gotten better. Not great, and no where near the Japanese Seiyuu, but there are a few English VAs that do a solid job... and most of those are owned by Pioneer Animation. If I have the choice, I watch my anime subtitled and in the original Japanese.
Sometimes, if I'm feeling zany, I'll even turn off the subtitles, to see if I can still understand what is going on via visual cues, and inflections in voice and whatnot.
i prefer subtitles as well, although there are a few small exceptions…i thought the english dubs of Evangelion and Tenchi in Tokyo were very good
but I couldn’t imagine watching some of my other animes in English…Saber Marionette J just wouldn’t be the same without the japanese actresses, and the two minutes of the Runouni Kenshin OVA english dub i heard sucked royally compared to the original japanese
For me it just depends on what i’m doing if i,m watching an action story like DBZ or YYH
i want to hear what they are saying to each other. It makes the fights seem better. With comedy and stuff along that line i actually like the original voices better. Also when i am playing games i really like hearing the original voice because the dubs just make it sound so stupid.
Hmmm… seems quite a number of responses mainly on:
Pro-Dub: ease of watching
Pro-Sub: Dub translations/inflexions/voices suck
Actually I don’t quite get the “ease of watching” thingy… I mean, I don’t even sepak English as a first language & have no problems so can’t really understand why English-speaking people have difficulty reading subtitles.
Pardon me, my English & Japanese isn’t top notch, but does anyone think the inaccuracy in translations may stem from fundamental differences in English & Japanese language like ways of expression, sentence structure, adjectives etc…? Somehow, I just feel that Japanese when translated to Chinese (even the horrible anime bootlegs) is far more accurate than those done by the American pros…
Incidentally, other than people that actually know japanese, I don’t understand why anybody would actually be pro subbing.
I mean, since you don’t speak the Language, there is no value whatsoever in the gobledygook they’re speaking. For all you can tell, they’re the worst VAs on the planet, because you have no clue if they’re putting the right emotion/accents on the right words to be convincing. Heck, you may as well be watching a silent movie, for all the use the sound is to you. 'Course, there are also people who prefer silent movies… I happen not to be one…
And by the by, “poor translation quality” is an invalid reason either way. The subbing translation has the potential to be just as bad as the dubbing translation… that’s just the quality of the people doing the translation, and casts no reflection on the type of translation done. A similar case can be made for the quality of most dub actors. Just because in a particular instance the actor doing the dubbing is poor, doesn’t mean that dubbing itself is a poorer method, just means that that actor sucks. Now granted, dubbing is a more expensive method, because you actually have to find talented translators and actors, instead of just translators, but you end up with, IMO, a better product if you spend the money.
Actually, there is, as I hinted at, one positive argument for subbing. You can watch it with the sound turned off, and it’s exactly as good as watching it with the sound turned on.
Oh, one thing I sorta forgot to mention.
I never buy a subbed anything for T.V. The most basic reason is sorta what somebody said in an earlier post about multitasking, i.e. is it really too hard to use the nanosecond or whatever it takes to read the dialogue instead of looking at the screen. Well, yes. Because generally speaking, I’m only looking at the screen out of the corner of my eye. I am ALWAYS multitasking. My T.V. is right next to my computer monitor, which is right next to my HDTV monitor (for Video games). I’m am NEVER just watching T.V. I’m playing a game of some sort or another WHILE I watch T.V.
I beg to differ about your argument that because you don’t speak the language, you can’t tell inflection and such
I watch quite a lot of subbed anime and you can definately tell inflection, mood, etc from the japanese voices…just because you don’t understand the words doesn’t mean the tone of their voice doesn’t get across…for example, the acting in Saber Marionette J, especially from Lime’s character, was amazing and there were lots of times that I cried profusely, not necessarily because of the words they were saying, but because the actresses portrayed so much pain in their voice that it was heart-rending
quote:
Originally posted by GnatB:
[B]I mean, since you don't speak the Language, there is no value whatsoever in the gobledygook they're speaking. For all you can tell, they're the worst VAs on the planet, because you have no clue if they're putting the right emotion/accents on the right words to be convincing. Heck, you may as well be watching a silent movie, for all the use the sound is to you. 'Course, there are also people who prefer silent movies... I happen not to be one...
Well, if I may, I feel you are way off base here. Yes, a lot of the subtitle fans have only a tourist to student level understanding of Japanese. However, it is the Japanese Seiyuu that makes the character work. The Seiyuu are so much better at putting emotion, inflection, humor, and whatnot into their voice, the the vast majority of English dub actors. Anyway, even if you can't understand a word of what is being said in Japanese, the Seiyuu put such feeling and esscence into their lines that the thoughts and ideas still permiates into you.
To use a different example, do you think Michelle Pfiefer would have made as good a "Ripley" as Sorgourney Weaver? What about Grace Jones? Sogourney Weaver did such an awesome job with the "Ripley" character that, even if all she was making were BOOP-BOP-BEEP noises instead of words, she would have still been able to get across what the feeling of the scene is.
English dub actors just aren't that good yet. Are they getting better? Yes. I have some of the older dubbed tapes from the 80s, and things are leaps and bounds better. But, better does not mean equal to the original.
quote:
And by the by, "poor translation quality" is an invalid reason either way. The subbing translation has the potential to be just as bad as the dubbing translation... that's just the quality of the people doing the translation, and casts no reflection on the type of translation done. A similar case can be made for the quality of most dub actors. Just because in a particular instance the actor doing the dubbing is poor, doesn't mean that dubbing itself is a poorer method, just means that that actor sucks. Now granted, dubbing is a more expensive method, because you actually have to find talented translators *and* actors, instead of just translators, but you end up with, IMO, a better product if you spend the money.
Again, I have to regretibly disagree with you. Subtitles have one huge advantage over dubbing, and that is accuracy. Subtitles allow the translator to write down a translation that matches the literal and dialog meanings of something, as well as being able to "stay-in-character" considerably better.
For example, the subtitles could read something like, "I am very disappointed in your actions, today." But the dubbing, in order to sync with the mouth movements is, "I'm sad at what you did."
Now, do they mean the same thing? Well, yes. However, the subtitles managed to get across a much more irritated and autocratic feel. It would be the same way as when you know you are in trouble because your Mother has just used both your full first and middle name.
Subtitles allow for a closer translation that stays in-character better, and still is true to the original script better.
Now, is the scripting for dubbing getting better? Yes. But, as a consumer, if I'm shelling out 30$ for a DVD, I want the best product my $30 can get. And, since the best product I can get would be subtitles and Japanese Seiyuu, that's what I'm going to watch.
And, as an aside, why bother with watching the TV at all then? You made the comment that you do some 4 or 5 things at the same time your show is on. Can you really claim you are watching it then?
quote:
Originally posted by GnatB:I mean, since you don't speak the Language, there is no value whatsoever in the gobledygook they're speaking. For all you can tell, they're the worst VAs on the planet, because you have no clue if they're putting the right emotion/accents on the right words to be convincing.
With respect, I believe that emotion is emotion and transcends barriers of language. I can tell when a Japanese speaking character is sad, melancholy, irritated, angry, happy etc. In fact, far moreso than most dubs in my native English - to me it seems too many dubs are more concerned with matching the lip flaps and having the actors pronounce every syllable perfectly. which results in stilted, unnatural sounding dialogue.
Generally the sub script is more faithful to the original Japanese. There are one or two notroious English directors who take huge liberties with dub scripts and unbashedly claim they see nothing wrong with changing the meaning of entire sentences so they sound "better". But I stress that the majority of dub directors do a good job with the translation.
Ya I agree with Mike Thomas on dubbing in terms of time synch with the mouth movement (which cannot change) and sacrificing quality. If anybody has played the english version of xenogears (old game but…) I am sure they know what I am referring to…
A little bit on conveying emotions. I generally find english voices in anime to be much less emotional than the japanese ones. I tend to hear the same tone of voice for the same character regardless of emotional situation. To put it in a blunt way, I find it to be a bit “cold” so to speak. Maybe it’s just me…
hear hear
Mike Thomas: You summed it up well.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamuness:
Ya I agree with Mike Thomas on dubbing in terms of time synch with the mouth movement (which cannot change) and sacrificing quality. If anybody has played the english version of xenogears (old game but...) I am sure they know what I am referring to...A little bit on conveying emotions. I generally find english voices in anime to be much less emotional than the japanese ones. I tend to hear the same tone of voice for the same character regardless of emotional situation. To put it in a blunt way, I find it to be a bit "cold" so to speak. Maybe it's just me...
I agree, Watch the Record of Lodoss War OVA's both Dub and Sub for a good example. The English Actors (with a few exceptions) are sleepwalking through it, while Parn's Japanese voice actor (Takeshi Kusao) shows great emotional range and tonal inflection in his voice. He really conveys Parn's emotional state through the OVAs. From the frustration he feels when arriving at the slaughtered town, to the emotional angst at the end when he's fighting to save Deedlit, He really put his all into his performance.
------------------
"His last thought is wry, Not bad for a dead man." Moon Knight vol.1, #1 (1980)
What, people like dub more than sub?.Well if that’s true then the only reason’d be because it will be easier to hear dubbing rather than to read subtitle.
But personally I really disagree with dubbing coz it makes anime/game lose it’s originality and over all this time seeing anime I can count the good dubbing with finger.
And I also had bad times with dubbing,take Saber Marionette’s dub for example,it’s enough to make shut down my TV.
Let’s face it all these time hearing dub,can you mention one that’s better than the original?Even if there are,I’m sure there alot more of bad dub
So I just hope if they dub something at least they should pick a decent voice actor to do the job.
Well,back to my hybernation(if I’m lucky I’ll get some good Bishoujo games next week and I’d awaken much faster ^__^,so wish me luck okay )
[This message has been edited by RedHell (edited 10-09-2003).]