2 qns related to jpns?

Visual Novel Community Visual Novel Talk
#1

Oh gods, I need to ask someone these n I don’t wanna take over the other topic. And sorry 4 the garbled topic… my eyes hurt. And i’m close to passing out.

  1. Is Japanese SOV? “Subject Object Verb”? And what does “object” really refer to, anyways? 'Cos a person can’t be an object, rite?
    Or so it says here: http://amaterasu.is.moelicious.be/forum … sg60#msg60

Or this? http://www.guidetojapanese.org/forum/vi … php?id=844

Which one is right? :?

As in: Watashi wa visual novel jya nai ka"(whatever the hell “ka” means… I’m using it 'cos I heard Sora repeat it soo many times.) ??? I don’t like visual novels? <— think it means this since “ka” = “used to denote a question” and btw, do you follow “ka” with a “.” or “?”

I’m soo tempted to write this but… it’s obviously wrong 'cos subarashii is used for food, right? =P

???(anime wa subarashii, ne?)

???(no idea how to say: “I am not momo-chan” properly)

Watashi wa anime wa? Or… ???

Yes, I’m reading this before trying to “learn” Japanese. =/ It’s too damn confusing… trying to learn random words and attempting to make sense of some language by blindly memorizing language structure. No more of that, my men! roars

  1. Can anyone who speaks American English point me to an accurate guide(not book) of grammar rules?

That’d be really helpful 'cos I’ve no idea which guides are accurate and which aren’t. I’d need a guide for… referring to, when people talk about things like “indefinite pronoun”, “noun” and so on.

#2

Japanese is Subject Object Verb. A person can be an object. For example:

??? (I like Alice)

Subject: ? (I)
Object: ??? (Alice, a person, presumably)
Verb: ?? (like)

Both your links are right. The latter link is simply saying that it’s a gross oversimplification, which I tend to agree with, but for people starting out thinking of it as SOV is a good step.

??? would be something more like: “I am not a visual novel, right?”-- although that still sounds off in English.

??? = I am a visual novel
??? = I am not a visual novel
??? = Same as the above, but phrased as question, like ‘don’t you agree that…’

If you want to write ‘I don’t like visual novels’ you’d want something like:

???

Yes, although that question can also be a rhetorical question - you aren’t necessarily asking something hoping for an answer.

Generally you follow it with ? - while a ? wouldn’t necessarily be wrong, it is redundant. The ? is normally used in Japanese text if there is no ‘ka’ because a question can be implied without one phonetically.

Not at all; dunno where you got the idea subarashii is used for food. ‘???’ is correct.

EDIT: You were possibly thinking of ‘oishii’, which is used for food? (means ‘delicious)’ Subarashii means ‘fantastic’

That’s not too bad, but you’ve used ? instead of ? here - it’s ???. You’ve also mixed up the subject and object here - the subject should be you and Momo-chan should be the object. I don’t think swapping them like that is ungrammatical but it would probably mean something like “Momo-chan is not me”. So you want:
???

EDIT: also it took me forever to realise your avatar was Kaoru from Ayakashibito. Man, what a great game…

#3

??? ???

\o/

Sorry… couldn’t help it. :stuck_out_tongue:

#4

???
???
???

#5

!!!

#6

???/ ???(whichever one is correct lolz… cos i’m just pressing the space key for the list of possiblE matching kanji.)

Hmmm… souda, so it’s… “???”. Thanks for the jikan??? you took in explaining to me. :slight_smile:

Aha, ic. =P Yep so i’ve noticed from listening to people(with VAing) talk.

Japanese = utterly confusing. =P Nah, just kidding.

'Cos whenever I recall the times people say “subarashii”, it’s always accompanied by “food”. =P But then again most likely word confusion. =P

That’s not too bad, but you’ve used ? instead of ? here - it’s ???. You’ve also mixed up the subject and object here - the subject should be you and Momo-chan should be the object. I don’t think swapping them like that is ungrammatical but it would probably mean something like “Momo-chan is not me”. So you want:
???

EDIT: also it took me forever to realise your avatar was Kaoru from Ayakashibito. Man, what a great game…
[/quote]

Yeah… it’ll take me some time b4 I can grasp the language properly but at least… I know almost all of the kanji in the first 2 to 3 levels. :stuck_out_tongue: And recognize some of the ones in the next “few hundred kanji” in my kanji workbook. =P And yep, “?”???"?"?

weeps Another game out of my reach. Alas, heavens… I look forward to the time when I can hang out at Akibakara.

Now, anyone wanna tell me: are there any tones for jpn? I noticed that many times, for “questions” that end with “ka” or certain other words, there’s a shift in the speaker’s tone/pitch. However, I haven’t come across any guides. Edit: Hmmm… looks like perhaps I’m being too anxious about this. :stuck_out_tongue:

http://edufire.com/forums/7-languages/t … se-pitches

#7

Pardon? “Of course. A girl… my slave… ninaru?”

#8

Don’t worry about them. Tones do not mean anything - I mean, sure, when you ask a question there’s a slight raise in pitch like there is in languages like English but otherwise nothing important.

??? - Of course
?? - Girl
? - I
?? - slave
?? - becomes
The kanji form for ?? is ??, but it’s usually written in hiragana.

#9

Just a quick note. ??? is rendered in hiragana, and I almost never see ??? rendered with anything but hiragana. Therefore, the first of those is correct. It will take you a bit to learn which words are usually rendered in hiragana, even though there is a way to write them with kanji. Here is a bonus word for you that is rendered in hiragana: ??? (Can be written ?? or ??, but due to the number of strokes it takes to write, has been simplified to hiragana.)

#10

It’s not incorrect and it is good practice to render things into kanji. It is entirely a matter of personal taste what you render into kanji, and depends on the formality of the level of writing, who you are addressing etc.

???

EDIT: I would NOT, however, advise using the IME to turn things into kanji blindly. You will definitely screw up at some point (in a hilarious way) and hiragana is safer.

#11

Oohhh… soo… standard J-speech ain’t as “tonal” as it’s in “anime/visual novels”, eh? I guess those shifts in tones are more for “variety” and to “help the readers/viewers better distinguish the characters”. And standard j speech is likely far more polite too 'cos i can 't see Jpn people being that informal to one another.

Of course, girl becomes my slave? Hah? Nani? Wakarimasen.

Yep so I’ve noticed 'cos there are words/phrases that share the same reading. =P (Just like Mandarin… blindly get the wrong words and it could be… ahem :stuck_out_tongue: ) And also, am not sure which kanji phrases are right…they probably differ from the Chinese meanings. =P

Hence… I was just playing around and familiarizing myself so that it’d be easier staring at “ultra complex” words.

???.. how did YOU know that I was playing around? :stuck_out_tongue: Damn! caught with one hand… ahem… in the cookie jar

Like getting ?? (brain death) instead of ?? , whatever the 2nd phrase means… lol.

Awawawawa… head hurts!!!

??? ???
Brain overload… ><;;

Too much kanji in 1 day… x_x You guys do realize that I’m just learning my hiragana now, right? :stuck_out_tongue: :expressionless: Please… have mercy! :frowning:

???

#12

Because the question was asked, if a person could be an object.

??? ???

“Of course. The girl becomes my slave.”

Thus a person is an object… cause slaves are considered objects. Plus grammatical pun factor.

So a person can be an object in Japanese. :wink:

Then the discussion devolved into the relationship between meat and slaves. :stuck_out_tongue:

#13

Is this rightly written?

??? ???

Sorry… i have no idea how to say “This is Alice and I’m an english-speaking VN player. I’m interested in seeing dark-themed eroge like GSS published in the West.” No idea if I got the context right. Hmmm… :slight_smile:

#14

Hi transation will be

???VN???GSS???

?I think this is correct transation.

#15

Hmmm thanks, that managed to help cement further on how polite jpn speech is. =P

#16

Well like any language it is polite as you want it to be. Just as their are plenty of polite phrases (depending on your relationship), their are many insults, including using such wording to address someone of a higher station as a lower station or addressing someone of a low station as a high station in front of someone else who is of a high station (to deliberately insult the latter).

#17

You will leave the Japanese reader utterly confused with those two sentences…