A Few Questions

quote:
Originally posted by Yanachan:
I think it would really be nice if PP somehow managed to get ahold of the two I've albums "Verge" & "Regret". I can't seem to find them anywhere. T_T
Try ACJ here. I got my copies from them.

I need a slight tutorial, I can’t find my way around that website ACJ.

quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
Try ACJ here. I got my copies from them.


Thanks I'll go check it out.

quote:
Originally posted by bokmeow:
I need a slight tutorial, I can't find my way around that website ACJ.

Looks like they specialize in taking custom orders so their website don't have any real product information. You should probably know what you're looking for before you order.
quote:
Originally posted by Yanachan:
Looks like they specialize in taking custom orders so their website don't have any real product information. You should probably know what you're looking for before you order.

When I order from them, I email them the exact items I want, along with ISBN/link to the item at the maker's site/etc.

Aargh…I had a VERY long reply to this that got ERASED when I forgot to enter my user information. Doh.

quote:
As a newbie I didn’t really know what to expect. [snip] Likewise I was completely unaware that the gameplay doesn’t amount to much more than a choose-your-own-adventure novel (anyone remember those?) I had thought I’d be able to walk around the base and inn respectively on my own (even if not animated, maybe something along the lines of a map that allowed me to click on adjacent rooms to go to that room.[/B]

The gameplay is slightly deeper than the average choose-your-own-adventure story. In fact, if you approach it like a choose-your-own-adventure story, you likely won’t get very far. Choose-your-own-adventure books don’t really have any choices that require deep thought. Either it’s something completely random, or it’s obvious what you should do. And they can be solved by brute force; making a note of the choices you’ve made and simply trying them all and seeing what works.

That will sort of work with Critical Point, but it won’t work at all with Tokimeki Checkin!. You are expected to roleplay your character. In Critical Point, for instance, I was able to get most of the simpler endings by brute forcing the game tree, but wasn’t able to get to The Real Ending (yes, it has one) using brute force alone.

I had to play the part of a real intelligence officer. Take the first choice. I kept my mouth shut, because an intelligence officer would want to blend in as much as possible and avoid attracting attention (which backseat flying would). I dunno it if matters one way or the other, but that was one of the choices I made that got me into the real plotline (and that is in fact what I was thinking). Likewise, I didn’t get too friendly with either Monica or Reiko, because then you’re not focusing on your duties.


As for Tokimeki Checkin!, you won’t really get anywhere unless you roleplay. While most of the girls sort of like you (and some are in love with you when the game starts), you won’t actually end up with any of them unless you and whoever you’re trying to end with are really compatible. Takayuki’s personality changes depending on the choices you make, and you have to match it to the girl you want. The game expects you to know or be able to figure out what makes a certain girl tick, and also to know what actions in the game you need to take that are appropriate with that knowledge.

If you’re going after Makoto (the cook), being a lazy bum will get you nowhere. If you’re going after Mai, then don’t, say, go to Yuki’s photo shoot.

And yes, it IS quite possible to get through a game of Tokimeki Checkin! with only one scene. You can probably get through a whole game and get none, although I’ve not personally done it.

Oh, and yes, playing through the games over and over can get quite repetitive. That’s why there’s a fast forward option.


quote:
I’m not too keen on potty humor (Water Closet?), I’m not particularly fond of the art style in “Snow Drop” (it looks “hazy” to me for lack of a better word), and the technical limitations of “X-Change” are keeping me from placing any further orders just yet… but I am still keeping an open mind on the genre. “Brave Soul” looks far more interactive and I love fantasy settings (I actually play D&D with friends on the weekends) so I’ll probably give it a shot when it comes out (I never pre-order anything) and from the screen shots there seems to be some sort of meters (Love, Trust, P-S) in “Little My Maid” which look like it could solve the uncertainty problems I had with “Tokimeki Check In!” so I’m thinking of giving it a try too. “Gibo” the art looks good but I’m not sure it’s anything more than another multiple-choice story as I see no meters or anything in the screenshots so I’m not sure about it.

I’ll be honest here. If you’re looking for (mindless) porn, buy XChange. If you’re not (and the fact that you’re on this board tells me probably not), then don’t waste your money. My evaluation of XCHange, in a paragraph: XChange is short. XChange is trivially easy to solve by brute force. The game’s caricatures are uninteresting. Some of the parts of the game manage to be cute, but I only laughed once. This was offset by the fact that the game managed to offend me by featuring the rape myth, or something too close to it for my tastes. The main character gets raped several times during the course of the game (more on most of the bad ending paths), but is just SO HORNY that by the end he doesn’t care.


I can’t play Water Closet, as I am somewhat phobic about cleanliness. (I can’t eat/drink food others have munched on, for instance.) Thus, I couldn’t play Water Closet if you paid me. I hear it’s a good game with an interesting play setup, if it’s your thing.


As for Snow Drop, I’d recommend it. I love the game. It’s sweet. The game has characters with personality (as compared to caricatures), and they’re greatly fleshed out by the voice acting. It’s well worth the money.

The gameplay is deeper than you may realize; like Tokimeki Checkin, taking straightforward approaches won’t work. Time passes in the game. Specific events in the game always take place at the same time in the same place. (Well, some events depend on others.)

The game will essentially give you a lot of latitude, asking you where you want to go. You will see the events if you go to the right place at the right time; otherwise, you won’t. Getting to the real second half of the game requires that you see a sequence of events. I don’t remember exactly how many (I think six), but you have to see them all. If you miss one, you go onto a seperate track that doesn’t have any of the real endings on it. (Mostly, you’ll be able to tell what’s important.)

Snow Drop is worth buying, even more so because the Bishoujo genre is in need of support. Just to give you some idea, Peach Princess only made three hundred copies of the Limited Edition of Critical Point, and there are still copies for sale…what, close to two months later? And that’s a representative number; if you do the math, you get very baaaaaaad numbers. If you liked Tokimeki Checkin! and Critical Point, I’d buy Snow Drop.

Only two of the Japanese companies that make these games were even willing to give the rights to Peach Princess. So many companies have tried and failed that every Japanese company except for Crowd and Will essentially said “go away”. And if Peach Princess fails…it will be a very long time before ANY Japanese firm will take a risk like this again.

[This message has been edited by Nandemonai (edited 05-19-2002).]

I was reading some of the forum posts on the other BBS’s and one of particular note on the MegaTokyo was one about piracy. There is still a very strong and clear divide within the camp who want to see Bishoujo games, and they have once more used fansubs as one of the arguments for their less than noble pirating cause. I don’t remember where Spectator Beholder’s old post on apples went, but that was a fairly nice analogy for the lack of Bishoujo game representation here in the state. Princess Maker was scrapped before it made public so there’s no way to revive interest in that unless someone licenses it again, that is if Gainax is willing. But Graduation never did receive enough attention and probably is a combination of several factors including the somewhat troubled situation of TokyoPop, formerly Mixx back then. It’s old now and game reviews probably don’t focus their attention on it. I have no doubt that if some Bishoujo game for the console came, there would be interest in it and the hardcore Anime fanbase would purchase it, but how many? Can the sales justify the purchase of the license? Companies take risks all the time and if it doesn’t pan out there is serious head rolling that will be happening. Cowboy Bebop may be popular, but Dragonball Z is on TV after all this time, so popular in fetching advertising dollars Cartoon Network is starting over with the series, it’s just a total cash cow, you know? People brought up good points that the Critical Point limited edition hasn’t even sold through and that’s only three hundred copies. And you and I know the people who bought the game is more likely than not the dedicated Bishoujo gamers. Americans take their freedom of expression pretty seriously, I was in a discussion with a friend of mine and he maintains that it was censored in Japan because the law requires it. There may be truth in it, but if that’s what the custom requires, I don’t think it’s for us to decided whether or not it is inappropriate for it to stay mosaiced. Freedom of expression is important, but respect for cultural differences is even more important from my perspective through the sociological lens. Graduation gave it a shot, hoping to ignite a Bishoujo game and simulated life gaming frenzy like Final Fantasy VII did for RPGs on the console platform, and failed. I doubt the companies, domestic or Japan, look toward the failures of gaming enterprises as business models. Himeya gave it a shot for the Bishoujo gaming niche for the PC market, failed and closed its US division. Now Peach Princess is bringing the latest and greatest, there’s not a title I don’t like and I hope to see more and more titles coming, especially Crowd’s. It’s imperative that Bishoujo games currently receive support, and I hope Bishoujo game fans, especially the console game fans, stop daydreaming and hoping for Tokimeki Memorial, Sakura Taisen, Sentimental Graffitti, and so forth when the currently licensed Bishoujo games are taking losses. Pirating is an even less compelling reason for the Japanese companies to bring things over. Why is it they always justify it with fansubs? You can write a review, synopsis, include screenshots that credit the original company without copying whole episodes and distributing it. A friend of mine fills his harddrive with fansubs, and he sure as hell doesn’t support the domestic licenses even when they are already licensed. You argue that there was no sale lost since he wouldn’t buy it anyways if fansubs weren’t available? Highly suspect argument. He can have the option of buying it but didn’t, and that IS lost sales. Please, please, please support the Bishoujo game scene, support any scene that you want to stay in the States.

Come on, I can’t have scared off everyone with the big long, uh, rant.

Especially the guy who originally wanted comments…I’d like to hear what you have to say ¬¨_¬¨

bokmeow-san, my answer may come a bit late but I was on vacation…
As for the MT thread, as I said, I chose NOT to enter it because I already had many discussions on that matter in the past on the MT board (of which you may remember the “True Love” and the “IP theft” ones…). Tired of trying… Sorry…
As for the “support the genre”, alas, I came long ago to the conclusion that, weary of waiting for an English release of their most-loved bishoujo games, many (most?) hardcore bishoujo games lovers learnt Japanese and are now buying the Japanese games… It then become hard for them to support the English releases, because it’s only a very tiny game range compared to all of the games they have access to now, even if they possibly are the best prepared to talk about thus “convert” new people to the genre… Why should they buy English games they’re not interested by, since “supporting the genre” has no real meaning to them as they can access the genre directly from the source (Japan)?
Sorry to be blunt, but as you know, I like to be honest… And honestly, I didn’t buy all of PeachPri games, nor intend to. And honestly, the ones I bought (CP, SD, TCI) and played to, though pleasant to play, are waaaay far from my fav. ones…

[This message has been edited by olf_le_fol (edited 05-27-2002).]

quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
As for the "support the genre", alas, I came long ago to the conclusion that, weary of waiting for an English release of their most-loved bishoujo games, many (most?) hardcore bishoujo games lovers learnt Japanese and are now buying the Japanese games... It then become hard for them to support the English releases, because it's only a very tiny game range compared to all of the games they have access to now, even if they possibly are the best prepared to talk about thus "convert" new people to the genre...

[This message has been edited by olf_le_fol (edited 05-27-2002).]


I will probably wind up learning Japanese eventually, seeing as how I'm learning it by osmosis from watching so much subbed anime anyway. But it would take me a very long time indeed to get to the point where I could play a Bishoujo game and understand enough of it to get much out of the game.

And even if I did, I'd support the English-language versions because they were there, sort of like my pre-RPG explosion stance that I bought any halfway decent RPG released. I'm funny like that, though.

Hmm, you are right about many of the things you say, but still…

Well, I’ll probably also end up learning japanese in one way or another and play japanese adult bishoujo games too… but that doesn’t mean that I’ll stop supporting the english genre, even if the don’t release any titles that would have been my first-hand choice.

That can be said about the genre now too… Very few of the titles they have released so far would have been my first-hand choice if I had the knowledge and the rescources to play the games that you can buy at the japanese market… But that doesn’t mean that I don’t like Peach Princess games, it’s just that many of them wouldn’t have been my first-hand choice if I had what it is required to have to play the japanese adult bishoujo games…

[This message has been edited by Spectator Beholder (edited 05-28-2002).]

quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
I will probably wind up learning Japanese eventually, seeing as how I'm learning it by osmosis from watching so much subbed anime anyway. But it would take me a very long time indeed to get to the point where I could play a Bishoujo game and understand enough of it to get much out of the game.

Since I am already trying to learn japanese and started 2 years ago, I think I might better tell you, that learning the spoken word (that is, what you would learn by osmosis) does not really the trick, because the games will consist most of written and not spoken words (especially regarding the thoughts, impressions and choices of the avatar), so you would be bound to learn the 3 systems of writing, used in japanese. This might even be considerable for the 2 Kana-systems, but the Kanji-System contains abount 1800 different symbols wich are all considered for everyday-use. I myself hope to have learned enough Kanji in order to be able to understand original japanese games by the end of this year, but still, I believe, it will be for me more convenient to read the text in english.

And (to get to the point) I think even other people, who have mastered japanese already, would appreciate this conveniece too.

quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
(...)
And even if I did, I'd support the English-language versions because they were there, sort of like my pre-RPG explosion stance that I bought any halfway decent RPG released. I'm funny like that, though.

"Any halfway decent RPG released."? Nandemonai, you seem to underestimate how many bishoujo games are released a month in Japan... I currently spend about 30,000 yens per month (~$250.00) on bishoujo games only and yet am missing/can't afford to buy many I'd be interested by; really interested by, not "halfway decent" bishoujo games I'm just curious about...
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
(...)
Very few of the titles they have released so far would have been my first-hand choice if I had the knowledge and the rescources to play the games that you can buy at the japanese market... But that doesn't mean that I don't like Peach Princess games, it's just that many of them wouldn't have been my first-hand choice if I had what it is required to have to play the japanese adult bishoujo games...

Thing is... I don't think I even have the resource necessary to buy all of my first-hand choices... Now, don't get me wrong: I'll buy LMM and probably SB and Dokusen, but I just won't buy each and every PeachPri games, just "to support the genre".

Hmm, there is about 50 adult bishoujo games released every month in Japan, right? And if even just 25% of those games are games that you’d consoder “interesting”, then it sure is a helluva lot of money, that

Besides, I myself haven’t brought every gmae that Peach Princess has released, and I’m unsure if I will even buy every game they will release… Oh, just like everyone else, I’ll buy Brave Soul, Little My Maid, Dokusen, Slave Bazaar and a couple others, but I’m very unsure if I ever will buy ALL of Peach Princess’s g,aes… but even if I don’t buy all of their games, I will still buy many of their products, supporting them in that way

Well, we each support the genre in our own ways. I know I’m trying to save to buy my own place so it’s harder for me to squeeze in the money to get the games that come out from PeaPri. (Good and bad of stuff, good that the releases are spread out that I can usually try and squeeze in each game, but bad in that I’m always stuck ending up wanting another game to play!)

As for the Japanese/English discussion part of this thread (gotta love how our topics wander here and there), don’t forget that some of us just don’t have a facility for languages. Technically, I’ve been learning Japanese since 1st grade but I’m far from fluent. Part of that is from being such a bad kid when I was younger and not caring if I learned or not, but part of it is that I just have problems with languages in general. English is my native language and even that sometimes gives me trouble. (I also happen to think that English is really silly and contradictory but that’s besides the point.)

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Hmm, there is about 50 adult bishoujo games released every month in Japan, right? And if even just 25% of those games are games that you'd consoder "interesting", then it sure is a helluva lot of money, that [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
That's more along the line of 10%... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
[quote] Originally posted by Nandemonai:
[b] (...)
And even if I did, I'd support the English-language versions because they were there, sort of like my pre-RPG explosion stance that I bought any halfway decent RPG released. I'm funny like that, though.

"Any halfway decent RPG released."? Nandemonai, you seem to underestimate how many bishoujo games are released a month in Japan... I currently spend about 30,000 yens per month (~$250.00) on bishoujo games only and yet am missing/can't afford to buy many I'd be interested by; really interested by, not "halfway decent" bishoujo games I'm just curious about...[/b] [/quote]

Maybe I wasn't quite clear on that, because you seem to have missed my point. I was drawing a parallel between the current state of the US Bishoujo "market" and the pre-FF7 RPG market in the US.

Japan gets a flood of RPG's. They're arguably the most popular genre over there. And yet, prior to the release of FF7, the US market would see precious few of them. I happened to be a fan of these games waaay back when I got hooked on FF6. And so my policy was to buy most of the ones, halfway decent or not, that crossed the ocean and were domestically released, simply because the companies needed my support. I still go out of my way to buy risky releases (like Rhapsody, which was sort of cute).

The current state of the Bishoujo market in the US is very similar--voluminous quantities of Japanese product, miniscule US ports. (Admittedly, the situation is much worse for Bishoujo.)

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Besides, I myself haven't brought every gmae that Peach Princess has released, and I'm unsure if I will even buy every game they will release... Oh, just like everyone else, I'll buy Brave Soul, Little My Maid, Dokusen, Slave Bazaar and a couple others, but I'm very unsure if I ever will buy ALL of Peach Princess's g,aes... but even if I don't buy all of their games, I will still buy many of their products, supporting them in that way [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]


Oh, I can say right now that I'll buy Slave Bazaar and Little My Maid. I'll even go so far as to say I'll buy Synchronous Hearts and Little My Maid: Pandora's Box. But (as I've mentioned before), you couldn't pay me to play Water Closet (because I'm mildly phobic about cleanliness), and I personally thought XChange was absolute trash and a waste of money, so I won't be buying XChange 2. And, much as I'd _like_ to say that I'd play Brave Soul if I got it, my RPG queue is so long that I probably never will.

Olf_le_fol: Even just 10 % must cost a small fortune, considerign the prices the games are sold for in Japan

Nandemonai: Well, I could play Water Closet if I had to, but I’m a little “unsure” about that game, through.

Hmm, I think I can see why you throught that X-change 1 was “thrash”, but have you read what Lamuness told us about the next game? If what he says is true, then X-change 2 can’t be compared to X-change 1, since they just have one thing in common - the main character gets changed into a girl, but that’s where the similarites stops (or so I think).

About RPGs, by the way, you are right that japan has quite a lot of these and that most of them haven’t reached the english market (althrough I suspect that english games (not anime/bishoujo games, but “normal” games like the Baldurs Gate series) have reached the Japanese market alreday (and if that’s so, then it’s unfair! . We still do get one or another RPG here now and then through. Grandia 2 was released just recently if I remeber correctly (and most of the reviews I read spoke highly of it).

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:

About RPGs, by the way, you are right that japan has quite a lot of these and that most of them haven't reached the english market (althrough I suspect that _english_ games (not anime/bishoujo games, but "normal" games like the Baldurs Gate series) have reached the Japanese market alreday (and if that's so, then it's unfair! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]. We still do get one or another RPG here now and then through. Grandia 2 was released just recently if I remeber correctly (and most of the reviews I read spoke highly of it).

Too optimistic! I still stick by my 99% to 1% theory. ^_-

I never really could get into Baldur's Gate for some reason. It took some considerable effort for me to scrounge up the willpower to finish it. ^^;
I'd played Grandia 2 some time ago when it came out here for the DC. I liked it, though it was predictable, and some of the dubbing really got on my nerves. ^^; Skies of Arcadia rocked. ^^

[This message has been edited by Zorian (edited 05-29-2002).]

quote:
Originally posted by Zorian:

I'd played Grandia 2 some time ago when it came out here for the DC. I liked it, though it was predictable, and some of the dubbing really got on my nerves. ^^; Skies of Arcadia rocked. ^^

[This message has been edited by Zorian (edited 05-29-2002).]


Heh, I love Skies of Arcadia too. That game oozes style and attitude just like the characters of SNK. 'You mess with me, you mess with the Claudia!'