Anti-piracy thingy

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#1

Yeah, I know this isn’t entirely on the subject of bishoujo games but anyway…

I was thinking about the anti-piracy thing that Kumiko talked about and supported in several threads on this board in the past. For those who don’t know, this is going to be an “Unbreakable hardware copy-protection scheme” controlled by Microsoft.

Firstly, I was wondering if Peach Princess was still actually supporting this now that Kumiko is no longer here?

It might sound good for music companies and games companies (Like Peach Princess), but what about everyone else?

I suggest that you read this:
http://forum.deviantart.com/403142

This should NEVER be implemented. It’s absolutely rediculous. Trust me here, for those who can’t be bothered to read the above link, in summary, the new system will take away your freedom, choice and control of your computer completely and give it to Microsoft (Yes, this means they will be able to delete your collection of MP3’s remotely). This is defenitely a Very Bad Thing. I’m suggesting that if you’re against this (Which you should be), you make yourself heard.

In the end, if I have to choose between my personal freedom and protection of companies such as Peach Princess, well, I’m sorry but my freedom comes first.

#2

All forms of copy protection are jokes,you can ALWAYS crack something.
If something has been made by a human then golly you can always crack it.
The only form of copyprotection that works games wise atleast is in multiplayer games were you need a cd-key that the main server has to check everytime you play.

And these kind of “protections” is just utter shite,the only thing they do is make things worse for legit consumers while pirates don’t give a damn.

#3

for the most part the copy protection mechanisms don’t bother the customers…maybe except for the extra cost incurred for the implementation for such mechanisms.

But it looks like starforce still hasn’t been overcome yet and I think it’s been almost a year or more since this mechanism is released. Does anyone know if anybody successfully cracked starforce yet?

#4

Lamuness, i cant answer that question for sure… but if it can be made it can be hacked… and starforce has been released mainly in european programs like Money and works… so for the most part until this system goes mainstream on some big games or programs hackers have no reason to hack it yet… i mean microsoft claimed their XP was unhackable and like 2 hours later everyone on the net was talking about the new patch to overcome the security checks

I would like to restate the fact that i buy my games and programs, because this is the second time ive said something like this… Check honestly! i own all my games! well cept for spelljammer… but if u can find me a version of that for the pc that doesnt cost like 300$ because it was discontinued 8 years ago then we will talk. (im talking about the win 3.11 version)

[This message has been edited by Gambit (edited 09-05-2002).]

#5

They plan on creating computer chips that will refuse to load unsigned operating systems. For those of us who are NOT engineers, I will (attempt to?) explain.

First, the way it is now: I can install anything I want on my computer and it will run. I can delete the operating system and reinstall it. I can install a program that can take RAM snapshots so I can grab data that a program doesn’t want me to see. I can write a patch that will give my operating system that capability.

All of this capability means that it is now impossible to control piracy. Impossible. So, of course, the entertainment industry wants to kill this entire model and replace it with this:

Your computer will only run programs that companies have certified. Programs must be signed; this means that a special signature is generated and appended to the program so that if it is modified, the signature becomes invalid. No valid signature, and the program is just not executed. Making a new signature without certain special pieces of information is so hard that it would take groups of supercomputers centuries (read as “you can’t”). Even “better”, let’s make special chips that will check your operating system so that you can’t simply install a different operating system to get around these restrictions. This means that these computers are designed so that your computer is only yours as long as the people who made your operating system say it is.

Even worse, your operating system has to be “approved” by the people who make the chip. Guess who will be in charge of approving operating systems? I’ll give you one guess, and it starts with “Microsoft”. (In other words: “Oh, look. Linux wants to run on this. Oops. We lost all 500 copies of the application to get this operating system approved except one. We’ll get back to you…oh…December after next good for us? I mean, is it good for you?”)

#6

Most defenses can be broken because at some point the guys making the software forget a vulnerablity. Consider all the DVD hack programs. It was originally cracked by some Linux people trying to make a DVD player for Linux since the industry wouldn’t make one. Someone forgot to encrypt the key to decrypting the DVD and now its simple to get around most DVD defenses. I think the programmed they hacked was the Xing Player. Some of my favorite defenses have come from Autodesk. The old hardware locks for AutoCAD. Their newest protection scheme is used for Inventor I’m not sure about others. It won’t operate with copies on other computers on the network. It will stop working if your hardware profile changes too much without a special procedure. Very Cute.

#7

How about a hardware key? (like this one: http://www.ealaddin.com/)

Unfortunately, it is too expensive in a per-user basis…

#8

Most “good” ones are very expensive. Companies like PeaPri have tight enough budget as it is.

Lightwave 3D protection is even more silly. Hardware dongle generates a key. In which I must enter a CD-Key. This in turn generate a activation key which I must Call their office to get a final active key. Very annoying I can tell. If there was a local office that I can call I would had to make a international just so I can use the darn thing.

#9
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
(...)
Even worse, your operating system has to be "approved" by the people who make the chip. Guess who will be in charge of approving operating systems? I'll give you one guess, and it starts with "Microsoft". (In other words: "Oh, look. Linux wants to run on this. Oops. We lost all 500 copies of the application to get this operating system approved except one. We'll get back to you...oh...December after next good for us? I mean, is it good for you?")
*shrugs* This will only means people would buy clone chips (which _won't_ check your OSes) and install OSes which _won't_ check your softwares... Free OSes will take over the world! *grins*
#10

This is serious, people. This basically means that the Evil Empire can control what goes on your computer. They can essentially dictate what does and does not go on your computer. For Example some companies who make Hardware for PC’s don’t send their drivers for MS Hardware Certification. Now they would have to and technically pay MS a licensing fee to do it so that the driver would work with the processor and mobo.

This needs to be stopped or an alternative solution created, because we’ll all be paying for it in the long run.

#11
quote:
Originally posted by Doug:
This is serious, people. This basically means that the Evil Empire can control what goes on your computer. They can essentially dictate what does and does not go on your computer. For Example some companies who make Hardware for PC's don't send their drivers for MS Hardware Certification. Now they would have to and technically pay MS a licensing fee to do it so that the driver would work with the processor and mobo.

This needs to be stopped or an alternative solution created, because we'll all be paying for it in the long run.

You are right, but is there any means to stop this? The empire isn't famous for listening to their customers anyway...

#12

Doug, no offence but i think your taking this a tad to serious, yes piracy is an issue these days (and would be less of one if brave soul got released tomarrow)(had to try) But i think you just need to chill a sec, so if an evil corperation does that, someone will just create something to counter such measures, like they do now…

#13

Gambit, the difference is that all copy protection is implemented in software. Now they are trying to implement copy protection in hardware and Microsoft wants control of it. Breaking a hardware copy protection that uses encryption is no where near as easy as breaking a software copy protection. Just look at how long it took for the CPS2 arcade system to be broken so that it could be emulated.

My main concern is that Pallidium will not be something that runs everything, except those things that are known to be illegal, but instead will run nothing except for things that Microsoft say is okay to run, which effectively gives them complete control over what you can and can’t run on your own system. There will be no more hobby programmers, because once they’ve compiled a program, it won’t run unless Microsoft says so, and that involves paying them a fee. Do you think that programmers are going to want that? Do you think that Open Source projects like Linux would survive that? Do you think that Peach Princess will even want to pay out money to Microsoft so that Microsoft will let their games work on Pallidium? And remember, we’re not just talking about the final release here, we’re talking about every time the program is re-compiled to be tested. I doubt many people will want that, but it looks like that’s the way things are heading.

If this does take off, there will be a huge division of the digital world due to those like myself who demand their freedom. There will be those on one side who don’t know better or just don’t care, doing everything that Microsoft tells them, and then those who will insist on using systems that don’t take away their control and freedom over their computers. Even the Internet would likely be divided into two seperate independant networks, one which Microsoft owns and controls and a new one built by hackers, much like the one we have today. I know which side I’ll be on.

[This message has been edited by TurricaN (edited 09-06-2002).]

[This message has been edited by TurricaN (edited 09-06-2002).]

#14

I’ve done a fair deal of research on the topic, which I heard of quite a while ago, so here’s what I know.

The device is a component that is built onto your motherboard that allows software developers, if they so chose, to require it to be activated in order to run. The actual system is implemented on the hardware level, and can be dissabled in the bios. By having the device disabled, it removes all functionality except for the OS check, and this is only if the OS has specific code to check with it. While it is dissabled though, software applications that require it won’t be able to run, but it has no effect on programs that don’t want to use the system. When its enabled, it has no effect on software that doesn’t have coded support for it.

You see, the system will prevent you from running illigal software from a hardware level. This doesn’t affect ALL software, only software that requests a key to run the software. The device simply retreves a key for it to run properly. Easy enough.

The system won’t be windows specific either. Being a hardware device, a program from any operating system could make calls to retrive a key.

It can’t stop people from using different OS’s, or software thats out there now, unlike what I’ve heard. All it means is that developers have the choice to protect thier software by interfacing with a hardware device that retrives a key that allows that software to run. You won’t even notice a thing if your running legal software. Not a thing. It just keeps pirates at bay. Isn’t that what we wanted?

This is just my take on it, take it how you want.

Doddler

[This message has been edited by Doddler (edited 09-06-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Doddler (edited 09-06-2002).]

#15

Oops, ignore this. Won’t let me delete this…

[This message has been edited by Doddler (edited 09-06-2002).]

#16
quote:
Originally posted by Doddler:
I've done a fair deal of research on the topic, which I heard of quite a while ago, so here's what I know.

The device is a component that is built onto your motherboard that allows software developers, if they so chose, to require it to be activated in order to run. The actual system is implemented on the hardware level, and can be dissabled in the bios. By having the device disabled, it removes all functionality except for the OS check, and this is only if the OS has specific code to check with it. While it is dissabled though, software applications that require it won't be able to run, but it has no effect on programs that don't want to use the system. When its enabled, it has no effect on software that doesn't have coded support for it.

You see, the system will prevent you from running illigal software from a hardware level. This doesn't affect ALL software, only software that requests a key to run the software. The device simply retreves a key for it to run properly. Easy enough.

The system won't be windows specific either. Being a hardware device, a program from any operating system could make calls to retrive a key.

It can't stop people from using different OS's, or software thats out there now, unlike what I've heard. All it means is that developers have the choice to protect thier software by interfacing with a hardware device that retrives a key that allows that software to run. You won't even notice a thing if your running legal software. Not a thing. It just keeps pirates at bay. Isn't that what we wanted?

This is just my take on it, take it how you want.

Doddler

[This message has been edited by Doddler (edited 09-06-2002).]

[This message has been edited by Doddler (edited 09-06-2002).]

Doddler, what you're saying is how the system is supposed to work. Turrican, myself, and others are trying to show how seriously this system could be abused to perpetuate certain agendas.

#17
quote:
Originally posted by Doug:
This is serious, people. This basically means that the Evil Empire can control what goes on your computer. They can essentially dictate what does and does not go on your computer. For Example some companies who make Hardware for PC's don't send their drivers for MS Hardware Certification. Now they would have to and technically pay MS a licensing fee to do it so that the driver would work with the processor and mobo.

This needs to be stopped or an alternative solution created, because we'll all be paying for it in the long run.

It's been stopped already. People actually know what it is. Just to reinforce:

Attention, general public! Come here, vulnerable consumer, and listen well!

If you see anything with the word Palladium on it, it has this "security" built into it. If you see anything with the phrase "Trusted Computing" on it, it also has this built into it.


There. Now that people know what it is, who in their right mind would buy one?

(And that whole 'trusted computing' thing is a flat out insult. The only one doing anything with my computer is me; are they implying they need special restrictions to make me trustworthy (read: "we don't trust the general public")? If so, then they can go trust themselves...by themselves...)

#18
quote:
Originally posted by Gambit:
Doug, no offence but i think your taking this a tad to serious, yes piracy is an issue these days (and would be less of one if brave soul got released tomarrow)(had to try) But i think you just need to chill a sec, so if an evil corperation does that, someone will just create something to counter such measures, like they do now...

*smack*

That would be nice, wouldn't it? Unfortunately, Microsoft is a monopoly. The entertainment industries which push this are a monopoly. And they are ALL saying they want it, that it is a good idea. And they might get it. I would have said they would never pass the DMCA either, but they did.

#19

This is in reply to Doddler’s long post, which I didn’t have a direct reply to and saw no need to quote.

You forget one thing. Microsoft is pushing this. Do you have a Hotmail account? Did you know Microsoft bought Hotmail? Did you know they changed the terms of service so that anything that goes through Hotmail they have just as much rights as you? They don’t steal it outright from you, they just have a blanket license to let them do anything they want with anything you put into Hotmail.

Did you install the Windows Media Player patch right after it came out? It updated the End User License Agreement so that you agree to let Microsoft remotely disable software on your computer that it doesn’t like and also you agree to let Microsoft install things remotely and secretly.


There’s good reasons why Microsoft was convicted in the antitrust suit. Lots of them.

#20

It’s getting rather ridiculous. The only thing that we can do now is stick with old versions of Windows or switch to an alternative Operating System, such as Linux, Mac OS X, Irix, BSD, Unix, BeOS, OS/2, etc… I predict that most PC users will be using Linux several years from now.

And, if you’re using Windows XP, you’re already using an un-safe Operating System. I bet you didn’t realise that every time you search for files on your hard disk, Windows XP submits information to Microsoft regarding your search! I’m staying well away from anything beyond Windows 98, and I’ve even gone to lengths to surgically rip out Internet Explorer intergration entirely from my Windows 98 partition too, which is as bigger security hole as they come.