B-Games with "Final Fantasy" resolution? Wish List!

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#1

Ok folks, standard disclaimer: At roughly three months since I stumbled onto the J-List website (from a link at Onion.com,) and thus a total of three months’ familiarity with - or even awareness of - the bishoujo game phenomenon, the following may contain statements which are naive, impractical, and/or utterly pie-in-the-sky dreamworld material.

Nevertheless:

I somehow found my way to the Himeya.com site, where as most here probably know hundreds and hundreds of B-Games are available in the original Japanese-language, mosaic-censored and at roughly $30 above the English-translated versions.

Obviously, unless you’re fluent in Japanese and can read Japanese characters and you’ve got your PC settings adapted to accept Japanese coding, these aren’t going to be of much use. Actually in terms of keeping the B-Game translation market thriving, buying games in the untranslated original versions could be considered counterproductive (if English-speaking people are willing to buy the games untranslated, why bother translating at all?)

But the site is useful in illustrating the incredible number and variety of games that exist in the Asian market. Am I correct in assuming that English translation/distribution companies can pick pretty much any game from those available in the Asian market and choose to translate and market them in English? Obviously there are agreements to be hammered out and contracts to be drawn up, but can I safely assume that any title at Himeya.com might be fair game for imminent release on the English-speaking market?

A group of clear standout titles (at least to me - anime purists may differ aesthetically,) are several titles listed under the manufacturer Illusion/Dream:

> “Requiem Hurts - Kankin -” - reminiscent of Charlie’s Angels, three female detectives do battle against illegal drug/sex rings;

> “Dancing Cats” - dance-club dating/scamming sim?;

> “Sexy Beach 2” - a tropical vacation paradise trip;

> “Brutish Mine” - more RPG than bishoujo game, but stunning;

> “DBVR (Des Blood)” series - first-person shooter games with H-scenes!;

and from AiCherry, “Toroimerai” - 'don’t know what this is about, but the graphics look incredible!

All of these have CG quality on a par with the movie version of “Final Fantasy” and other state-of-the-art CG - and in the case of a couple of the Illusion/Dream titles, the RPG structure is reviewed as being like Tomb Raider or VirtuaCop.

If these games live up to their billing (the screenshots tend to confirm they do at least on visuals,) then they represent a vast, generational-level step up in B-Game quality.
It would seem a no-brainer that their translation and release to the English-speaking market be expedited, and that they have just the kind of “wow-factor” element the B-Game industry needs to jump-start it in the American market.

Anyone have any info on prospects for these titles being translated and de-censored for English-language release?

_/ _/ _/ _/ /

A couple other standout titles - in the traditional anime art style:
“Air” and “Kanon”, both by Key.

Each has rave reviews saying it has story content that is outstanding, almost poetic. Let’s hope these are pulled to the head of the line…

/ _/ _/ _/ _/ /

Others of interest:

> “Forest” by Liar - screenshots are of standard bishoujo-level art but look intriguingly freaky;

> “Tasogare” by Leaf - an interactive dramatic novel about genetically engineered “enhanced soldiers”. Very cool looking graphics and a story scenario that’s refreshingly new;

from Mink:

> “Princess Knight” - a combination action RPG and dating sim game with stunning bishoujo graphics and what looks to be a fairly well-executed action game as well. A possible step up from “Brave Soul”?;

> “Fu.shi.da.ra.” - looks like a standard school/college scenario but great graphics;

> “Ippai Shimasho” - voiced campus life-sim, also with incredible graphics;

> “Izayoi no Hanayome” - from what I can tell, your character attempts to pick a mate from a family of vampire chicks who hold a blood-sucking ceremony every full moon… Great camp-factor fun! Stunning graphics!;

> “Lingeries” - a sexual harassment-sim game where you apparently hit on your co-workers with panache and aplomb and anyone else who shows up. Possibly some non-consensual action but fairly tame from the looks of things. I don’t know about anyone else, but real life aside, role-playing an unapologetic workplace scammer would be great therapy for those who’ve had the experience of having to strenuously avoid presumptuous “harassment-hypochondriacs” in their real-life workplace;

> “Mi.da.ra” - cool concept: you have a magic videotape (or VCR?) in which anyone who’s ever watched appears and plays out sexual fantasies; different tapes acquired throughout the game transport the same characters to different historical periods and different social positions;

> “Realize Me” - A more conventional level game but with a cool story: a game scenarist is working on a new game and a beautiful game character gets sucked into the real world;

> “Toki Ne Iro” - conventional B-Game graphics but I’m a complete sucker for any mystery story set in a large old mansion on a hilltop - all of those Scooby Doo episodes come back to haunt me…;


/ _/ _/ _/ _/

- Anyone with info on any of these titles, sound off!

- Anyone who’s seen similarly intriguing titles on other sites, let us know!

- Anyone who knows how to forward a wish list to Santa, umm…hey, I’m willing to try anything.

Happy Gaming!

[This message has been edited by ZaphodB.Goode (edited 02-29-2004).]

#2

For now, Peach Princess can only translate bishoujo games made by Crowd or Will…

#3

Why? Given the large number of producers out there, limiting oneself to just two seems incredibly foolish…
I’m assuming it’s some contractual thing?

[This message has been edited by ZaphodB.Goode (edited 02-29-2004).]

#4
quote:
Originally posted by ZaphodB.Goode:
Why? Given the large number of producers out there, limiting oneself to just two seems incredibly foolish...
I'm assuming it's some contractual thing?

[This message has been edited by ZaphodB.Goode (edited 02-29-2004).]


They want to have as many publishers as possible, but the only ones who are willing to have their games translated are Crowd and Will.

G-Collections is affiliated with CD-Bros and any publisher under their banner is fair game, plus they've worked out deals with Zyx, D.O. and others.

None of the other companies are interested or willing, due to the perceived lack of profitibility and rampant piracy.

#5

Oooo- bummer. I hadn’t even thought of the producers refusing. Not much you can do about that, but what foolishness! Even assuming pirating will take place, they’d still be making more money licensing out a game for English-speaking markets than not doing so at all.

It’s a frustration similar to something I experienced in television shows a few years ago: The International Channel for a time ran a couple of absolutely excellent Japanese dramatic series - one of them was a “You’ve Got Mail”-type romance called “With Love”; the other one I can’t remember the name of but was about a group of forensic pathology students sent out to solve crimes - kind of a “Quincy, M.E.” crossed with “CSI” with a bunch of gorgeous young women in the cast.

Anyhow, the International Channel ran these with English subtitles for months, then suddenly had to discontinue subtitling, effectively making them unwatchable by non-Japanese-speaking audiences. Apparently the Japanese television company that owns the rights, FCI, arbitrarily decided to withdraw subtitling rights.
So clueless Gaijin like myself, after a short period of having a priceless glimpse into a place, culture and people utterly foreign to them, got suddenly cut off like a broken phone line, permanently.

It was particularly difficult for me because I’d only stumbled onto the programming a few months before FCI’s decision, and had come to love deeply this culture I was newly experiencing. It was like being torn away from close friends, never to see them again.

To date, The International Channel still hasn’t been able to run subtitles, and “With Love,” (the only title I remember,) is available on DVD/VCD, but only with Chinese subtitles.

It would be great if the world’s business interests would, errrmmm, try a little harder to catch up to the “internationalization” for which their customer base has long been ready.

Like French singer Patricia Kaas once said, the world isn’t getting smaller, it’s getting closer. [Kaas: another artist whose work is obstructed from American audiences by the short-sightedness of her record company - only one of her concert videos is available in NTSC-compatible format…]

But I digress, significantly.

#6

Here’s the short version:

US versions cost less per unit. US versions sell far fewer units. This means that resources spent on US versions get much less return than resources spent on new Japanese titles.

Making US versions requires involving the Japanese companies. Most Japanese b-game makers are small companies without a lot of flexibility in terms of finances - they generally have to keep moving forward and putting out new titles. And they tend to not work on very many titles at once. Only very successful companies can do that. This means revenue streams are limited. Making a US version could in fact bankrupt a company, not because it is a net loss, but because it is not an optimal use of resources and so the Japanese products wind up getting delayed.

After a number of high-profile spectacular failures, this genre was almost totally killed [in] the US. It is making a comeback, but is still not exactly thriving.

[edited for grammar]

[This message has been edited by Nandemonai (edited 02-29-2004).]

#7

Just curious, are you the same Zaphod who appeared some time back at the G-Collections BBS and gave Dave Endreseak a piece of your mind?

#8

Woodelf said:

quote:
Ya know with two heads you can translate the games twice as fast for us.

Not when one of them is in a knock-down-drag-out fight with a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster and the other is busy coaching…

And thanks Nandemonai for the info. It brings to mind the classic phrase: “I used to be an idealist - until I got mugged by reality…”
That makes perfect sense…why dedicate time, personnel and money to translating games for a tiny English-speaking market when you can make tons more by dedicating them to the production of new titles for the Japanese-speaking market?

sigh

'Looks like a cram-course in Japanese is the only option for enjoying any of these titles in the near term…
Maybe it’s a simplistic view not shared by others, but to me there’s no law that says a b-game can’t exceed the standard $49.95 price. Given the stunning CG quality of some of the titles I mentioned in my lead post, I’d be willing to shell out considerably more for certain titles if only they could be made available to the English-speaking market.
But that still probably wouldn’t provide enough financial justification for the Japanese companies to agree to the project(s).

Jason4:

quote:
"Pea Pri is pretty much a joint venture between Crowd and Will run by Peter Payne."

Is that guy the absolute envy of Gaijin everywhere or what?? Good God what I wouldn’t give to be in his shoes! More power to him…

And Angry Gamer - yeah, one and the same. I went around and around (then around and around and around some more) with Mr. Dave on the subject of rape-sim title “Virgin Roster-Shukketsubo” and his categorical imperative of buying every bishoujo game regardless of its content, or else! Exactly like trying to teach a cat to fetch. The guy is just “my way or the high-way” and that’s all there is to it. I’m just glad that’s over for the moment and I’ve got my life back…

#9
quote:
Originally posted by ShinjiTohno:
No offense to anybody, but if Dave did say to buy Virgin Roster, he might have had some good reasons behind his saying so...
No offense, Shinji-san, but that's a little like stating, if George Bush says to start a war with Iraq, he must have a good reason. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]

quote:
If Dave E. did say such a thing as "buy every game, even rape games like Virgin Roster", I am sure that the thinking behind his post is to support the companies as best we can, because they need all the support we can offer them.
Dave's economic theory seems to be that consumers can serve their own interests by buying products they don't like, e.g. Virgin Roster. He seems to lack a basic understanding of how the free market works, or perhaps he opposes free markets in general.

If you want to "support companies as best you can" and use your money wisely, buy products you enjoy and don't buy products you dislike. Your suggestion about introducing friends to the genre is good, but don't expect them to become B-game enthusiasts if you hand them a title like VR - unless they happen to be budding sadists.

#10
quote:
Originally posted by ShinjiTohno:
Don't worry, I did not take any offense because I said he MIGHT have good reasons, not he MUST have good reasons, as opposed the way you worded your analogy with George Bush. I try to word myself as carefully as I can, and I specifically used "might" when I could have used "must".
You're quite correct and I'll grant that point, but you have to admit, saying someone MIGHT have some good reasons for saying something is about as weak an endorsement as you can give. I mean, it's just as compelling as saying he might NOT have had good reasons.... The point I was trying to make - with a little sarcasm - was that Dave speaks with questionable authority when he delves into socio-economic theory. Moreover, trying to reason with him about an arguable assertion is fruitless, as I'm sure Zaphod can attest. It all comes down to Dave is always right, and anyone who disagrees with him is always wrong. There's no give and take, no compromise or admission of fallibility. Dave is always right, and if you disagree with him, you are wrong. Period. He's knowledgable on many subjects, but he's not someone I care to debate with or whose opinions I have much regard for.
#11
quote:
Maybe it's a simplistic view not shared by others, but to me there's no law that says a b-game can't exceed the standard $49.95 price.

WTF no.
As much as I like bishoujo games, I think $50 is largely enough. Especially when considering how little time it takes to have played it in its entirety. Well, except Brave Soul. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]
Putting the price up would throw me off.
quote:
Is that guy the absolute envy of Gaijin everywhere or what?? Good God what I wouldn't give to be in his shoes! More power to him...

Envy? No, but still...
Peter Payne r0xorz y0r b0xorz.
quote:
...It would only do you good to ask your friends to support these companies, so just try it and see what happens.

Process is running.
#12
quote:
Originally posted by ShinjiTohno:
No offense to anybody, but if Dave did say to buy Virgin Roster, he might have had some good reasons behind his saying so...

[This message has been edited by ShinjiTohno (edited 03-01-2004).]

Dave has a long history at this board. The short version: he posed as a woman named Kumiko Kamiyama and was Peach Princess' official board contact for about a year, then was (from what I have heard) essentially fired.

He was prone to making long rants, arguing over things and not really recognizing when he was wrong.

He FLAT OUT LIED to us and said that Peach Princess was the last chance for success in the English market. Period. That if Pea Pri failed the US market would be gone and there would be NO MORE titles released EVER. He encouraged people to buy MORE THAN ONE copy and sell the extras on eBay. He refused to ever admit he was wrong about anything.

So ... essentially, people are very very skeptical about his Chicken Little claims that The Market is Collapsing! - because they're judged on his past history of making such claims when the market has in fact CONTINUED TO EXPAND.

...Please note - if this seemed rude or strongly worded, I'm not attacking you; Dave just pisses me off...

#13
quote:
Originally posted by ShinjiTohno:
Well, whatever the case may be, for all our sakes, I strongly hope that no matter what happens, Peach Princess, Hirameki International, and G-Collections will not fail, and that instead, the US market will expand SO MUCH that someday, Japanese bishoujo game companies will all turn their heads towards American shores.

[This message has been edited by ShinjiTohno (edited 03-01-2004).]

Amen!

#14

You’ll know bishoujo games have finally hit the big time when you see a Hentai/Bishoujo expo. And I guesstimate that will happen when AX hits 100,000 attendees. Which I think will be in around 10-15 years, optimistically speaking. Anytime you see a branching off of one expo into their own expo, you know the demand’s big enough.

------------------
精神 の 神

#15

I just started attending this board during the tail end of Dave’s tenure. But I have to say there were some interesting discussions

#16
quote:
he posed as a woman named Kumiko Kamiyama and was Peach Princess' official board contact for about a year

That was him?! o_O
I read some ancient threads pertaining to Brave Soul...
My God, he/she sure was silly.
#17

Benoit said:

quote:
WTF no.
As much as I like bishoujo games, I think $50 is largely enough. Especially when considering how little time it takes to have played it in its entirety. Well, except Brave Soul.
Putting the price up would throw me off.

To clarify, I wasn’t suggesting that I really want B-game prices to be higher, obviously. (I had wondered if I’d get a “D’oh! Shhhhhhh!” response on that point…8^)
I just meant that if one or two specific titles had to be sold at a higher price in order to be brought to the English-speaking market, I would much rather have the game available, even at a higher price, than not at all - wouldn’t you? Some of those games I mentioned in the lead post look incredible, and those’re just screenshots!

But as you pointed out, the higher price would likely reduce sales to a point where even selling at a higher price still wouldn’t make it economically feasible. Maybe the $50 mark is the absolute max the market will bear.
I was just thinking in an analogy to cutting-edge technologies like CDs, Plasma and HD TVs, where at first they’re very expensive and only a few can buy them, but the revenue generated allows improved economies of scale and the price eventually drops dramatically. Probably not applicable in this context though.

ShinjiTohno said:

quote:
I am still trying hard to find more friends of mine to support these companies, yet it seems like the majority of this board is not willing nor interested to help better the future of English Bishoujo gaming.

It’s not really an unwillingness - I’d venture to say it’s more of a reluctance to talk to other people, even friends, about one’s taste in graphic erotica. Sex is kinda personal to begin with, and American society in general is still very close-lipped about sex, despite how much of it is present in our media. Compounding that, in general men are far less likely than women to confide with their buddies about their personal sexual fantasies - and most B-games are of course written for heterosexual male players.

So, many may be very willing and interested in introducing others to bishoujo, but are at the same time a little hesitant to go out on a limb and suggest graphic erotica to a friend.

#18
quote:
I shutter to think where PP would be if he still was working for them.

ShuDDer.
#19