C-G's Virtual-Mate?

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#621
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I understand where you're coming from...but still, it makes no logical sense in terms of cause and effect. The only gain from preventing piracy, if not in sales, is just the "warm feeling inside" you get from seeing that your products aren't being distributed without your consent. I suppose that could have an effect on overall company morale, but why lose sales over fuzzy feelings?

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-24-2004).]

What in sales is logical in terms of cause and effect, on one side you have a consumer many of whom impluse buy (not logical and not really able to follow cause and effect ideas), and you have at times on the other side some companies that look only at the bottom line and ignore the mass sales they might get if they exploit the impluse instinct in buyers. Most business is not as logical as knowing one thing will lead ot another to another, too many people outside (the customers) involved for it to be such a system.

I honestly don't think they (as others have said) they expected this fallout, I think they are fools for not expecting it but I don't think they did, so the warm fuzzy feelings was part of it with the hope of gaining new people while losing next to none if any, they just chose poorly when they picked that as the most likely outcome (which I am assuming they did or this system would never have been put in place as others have also mentioned).

#622
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Also, I suspect that fewer people will have the guts to return or call for support on a hentai game that they can't play because of net issues than they would a less embarassing game... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Again, other small companies that I *know* have tried things like this were swamped by the customer support issues. GC may have more customers who are afraid to ask for help (or get bogged down in the language issues...)

I don't know, I think if they have the guts to order it right from the site rather then another legal source that might make them feel less guilty they won't be as hestitant as is thought to call for support. And if there is one thing that over rides most peoples feeling of embarassment it might be a desire to get their money back.

As to it being seen as a fluke if Let's Meow Meow sells lots but Hitomi does not, I hope they are smart enough to read these and other boards and realize it is not a fluke that one succeeds and one fails, it is just the uninformed which bought the game the first time, and such an occurrance won't happen a second time because they will no longer be uniformed.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

#623
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
What in sales is logical in terms of cause and effect, on one side you have a consumer many of whom impluse buy (not logical and not really able to follow cause and effect ideas), and you have at times on the other side some companies that look only at the bottom line and ignore the mass sales they might get if they exploit the impluse instinct in buyers. Most business is not as logical as knowing one thing will lead ot another to another, too many people outside (the customers) involved for it to be such a system.

I disagree. It's hard to predict what an individual person will do. But people in general are quite predictable. The impulse buy instinct can be quantified just like anything else, and businesses DO take advantage of it in a very precalculated way...just take a look at the check-out area next time you go grocery shopping. There's a whole area of study devoted to the subject of attracting customers...it's called marketing.

quote:
As to it being seen as a fluke if Let's Meow Meow sells lots but Hitomi does not, I hope they are smart enough to read these and other boards and realize it is not a fluke that one succeeds and one fails, it is just the uninformed which bought the game the first time, and such an occurrance won't happen a second time because they will no longer be uniformed.

There you're wrong. Who says that every customer that's in line for Hitomi will buy LMMW? That's why this situation is so precarious, and why I keep saying that GC may not feel much of the backlash of public opinion for months to come.

#624

This is a really bad idea. Especially for those that don’t really have an online connection all the time for what ever reason or if they have to lose it or can’t connect to other servers due to ports being closed on their networks or ISP. I can understand wanting to stop pirates but this not the way to do it.

Now I have a internet connection that is on all the time but there are those that don’t. Also what happens if G Collections goes under, then those with the games are basicly screwed by not being able to play a game they legally payed for.

#625

double post

[This message has been edited by Effect (edited 10-24-2004).]

#626
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
There you're wrong. Who says that every customer that's in line for Hitomi will buy LMMW? That's why this situation is so precarious, and why I keep saying that GC may not feel much of the backlash of public opinion for months to come.
Let me ask this then, in this market how many out there that actually buy the games buy even those they might otherwise avoid? A lot of people actually, because they do it to support the industry.

So not entirely wrong, remember this market is unique in that a lot of those that buy will buy any game from this market for the same reason why some nuetrals are perhaps buying the game on the 26th rather then waiting and see what happens when all this finally does hit the fan. The casual fan no, but I am doubting there are many causal fans that post on these types of boards, the voices G-Collections is hearing from ad nauseam.

If there is one market that this general rule of people buying games then even have no intent of playing it is this one, or was this one, and if that does not happen then there is an obvious problem.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

#627
quote:
Originally posted by Effect:
This is a really bad idea.
I'm afraid you're about 15 pages late with this one. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Most of the people who would argue that point left the discussion a while ago.

What do you think about boycotting G-Collections until they drop VM? Would you support such an idea? Do you think it can succeed?

#628
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I disagree. It's hard to predict what an individual person will do. But people in general are quite predictable. The impulse buy instinct can be quantified just like anything else, and businesses DO take advantage of it in a very precalculated way...just take a look at the check-out area next time you go grocery shopping. There's a whole area of study devoted to the subject of attracting customers...it's called marketing.
Not really, people are creatures of habit, look in the lunch room, in a class room in places where they don't have to take the same seat, they almost always do, they almost always get up at the same time, go to bed at the same time, shower, eat, read, watch television at the same time, watch the same programs week after week, tend to hang around the same type of people, tend to follow the same patterns of whatever has not been mentioned. They are easy to predict if you get to know them and yes that is more work then knowing a group, but then you group them in your own way "b-game lovers" in this group "b-game causal fans" in this group etc. Form your own from the individuals you know and target that way, not the same as targeting a group.

True the individual can change easier and quicker then the group, no group pressure to follow the group, but they are still creatures of habit.

But the check out in the grocery store is different especially since they have started to go to "child safe" covers. Also it is massively different then this industry saying they will advertise on some anime fans website or something else that might be linked to this industry. Or publishing industry saying they will allow more "racey" covers to draw the eyes and get people to think about something other then the bad plot or whatever might be wrong with the book.

Marketing often is the antithesis of impluse buying because if you have to make something so obvious to people it has to have bells whistles and a sign that says buy this item on it, then it is not an impluse that makes them look at it. Impluse is something that catches your attention out of the corner of your eye and while two seconds later you might have no idea why you did it you buy the item. Sometimes it works sometimes it fails and if it fails you might avoid similar items in the future, which would also mean that if that was a way something was marketed it was done poorly since it could fail as easily as succeed, you want a better chance of success then failure on marketed goods, which is why they don't really play to impluses on large items, they sell the flash, the image, but that is not selling an impluse urge, that is saying you are not a "good person" if you don't vote against this candidate (sorry with the election coming up that just popped to mind), rather then saying "geez why'd I vote for that loser" after you have voted.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

#629
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:

I'm afraid you're about 15 pages late with this one. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img] Most of the people who would argue that point left the discussion a while ago.

What do you think about boycotting G-Collections until they drop VM? Would you support such an idea? Do you think it can succeed?

Honestly I don't think a boycot would work. There would still be those that buy but I wouldn't be against one. Still I'm what you'd call a casual buyer. I've gotten a game here or there, ones that interest me and after I've read reviews.

If this is a way to fight the pirates then so be it. Don't think this is the answer and there could be a better way. I don't have a problem with the internet thing but I know this could prove a problem for some. Especially if they require connection to a specific connection port instead of the normal port 80. Then there is the fear of what will happen if they as a company go under. Will they put something out that does away with the the whole VM idea cause it would be stopping people that actually legally bought the game from playing. The 3 computer deal also is a problem. What happens if the game has to be installed again, a persons harddrive has to be reformated or a person gets a new computer. Why must they buy the game again to instead and have it recognized if they legally bought it before. These are my concerns and why I think its a bad idea.

[This message has been edited by Effect (edited 10-24-2004).]

[This message has been edited by Effect (edited 10-24-2004).]

#630
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Let me ask this then, in this market how many out there that actually buy the games buy even those they might otherwise avoid? A lot of people actually, because they do it to support the industry.

You misinterpreted my statement (perhaps not wrongfully so). What I meant is that GC may not feel much of the backlash of public opinion VIA SALES for months to come. I'm talking money, not words. Since we're <10% of the market, there's more than 90% of the market out there that likely doesn't buy every game on principle. THESE are the people I'm talking about.

#631
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Since we're <10% of the market, there's more than 90% of the market out there that likely doesn't buy every game on principle. THESE are the people I'm talking about.

Okay, but even these people are faced with a situation that has never existed before within this market so G-Collections can take nothing for granted, and assume nothing about raises or slumps in sales within this unique situation within this market if anything they should assume the worst from a slump rather then it just being that particular game.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

#632

Looks like the hard drive format thing is a reoccuring misconception. I’ll add that to the faq.

Also, I have a legal question for you guys about the faq. I updated the faq just now, and I included a quote from G-collections that I found necessary to modify for proper context/readability (the “enables customers to interact with our game developers and receive additional services via Internet connection” quote). Is the way I did it okay? Is there some special procedure for modifying a quote that I could use?

#633

@Effect: Please edit/remove your post in the “Virtual-Mate for Dummies!” thread. The faq thread isn’t there for commentary on the V-mate system, and such commentary compromises the thread’s integrity as a (relatively) unbiased source of information.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-24-2004).]

#634

Done already. Noticed I had made a mistake and posted in there. Didn’t read the bottom of the first post.

#635
quote:
Originally posted by Effect:
Honestly I don't think a boycot would work. There would still be those that buy but I wouldn't be against one. Still I'm what you'd call a casual buyer. I've gotten a game here or there, ones that interest me and after I've read reviews.
You may be right. Only a few of us have strong feelings about the issue and plan to boycott on principle. It's like the upcoming election. You know in your head that your vote won't really affect the outcome, but you know in your heart that it's still the right thing to do.
quote:
If this is a way to fight the pirates then so be it. Don't think this is the answer and there could be a better way.
Well, the only thing likely to change the VM plan is sales. If enough people buy the game, VM will be included in the next release, and the one after that, and the one after that, etc. The only way to stop it is if enough people refuse to buy it. I'll follow that course unless it turns out to be a lost cause.
quote:
I don't have a problem with the internet thing but I know this could prove a problem for some. Especially if they require connection to a specific connection port instead of the normal port 80.
If there are special firewall requirements, they had better spell them out. I don't see why they wouldn't use the standard web interface, though.
quote:
Then there is the fear of what will happen if they as a company go under. Will they put something out that does away with the the whole VM idea cause it would be stopping people that actually legally bought the game from playing.
That seems to be the motivation behind the patch idea. We'll have to see if they clarify that point.
quote:
The 3 computer deal also is a problem. What happens if the game has to be installed again, a persons harddrive has to be reformated or a person gets a new computer. Why must they buy the game again to instead and have it recognized if they legally bought it before. These are my concerns and why I think its a bad idea.
I'd hope they would provide customer support to anyone requiring more than 3 installations. My take on it is that it's a way to monitor abnormal usage. You want to do installations on more than 3 systems? OK, let's talk it over. When I've dealt with business software vendors, that's been their intent. They don't want to make it impossible. They just want you to touch bases with them to make sure everything is legit.

[This message has been edited by perigee (edited 10-24-2004).]

#636
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
I'd hope they would provide customer support to anyone requiring more than 3 installations. My take on it is that it's a way to monitor abnormal usage. You want to do installatins on more than 3 systems? OK, let's talk it over. When I've dealt with business software vendors, that's been their intent. They don't want to make it impossible. They just want you to touch bases with them to make sure everything is legit.[This message has been edited by perigee (edited 10-24-2004).]
At what point does something that might be vaild and for whatever reason widespread start to sound like a lie and cease to be legit?

Or when does something that might be legit for you sound like a lie because others have used it as a lie before to get it on more computers?

Still a sticky situation even if they allow more after "talking it over".

#637
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Also, I suspect that fewer people will have the guts to return or call for support on a hentai game that they can't play because of net issues than they would a less embarassing game... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Again, other small companies that I *know* have tried things like this were swamped by the customer support issues. GC may have more customers who are afraid to ask for help (or get bogged down in the language issues...)

Honestly, I don't buy that argument. Let's start w/ the easier issue, asking G-C for help publicly via their bbs or privately via email. I see postings at their bbs asking for help in resolving problems, and it doesn't seem to matter what the user's nationality is. Also, from personal experience, I get questions from people regarding my walkthroughs posted at gamefaqs (if I don't understand what is being asked, due to a language barrier, I'd simply ask followup questions to clarify). btw, calling for support isn't an issue b/c I don't see a hotline to call up G-C (or PP for that matter). If you wish to contact G-C, your methods are either publicly via bbs, or privately via email. Calling isn't an option.

As for returning merchandise, I'm sure they accept returns occasionally. But they wouldn't publicize that, or else more people may be encouraged to ask for refunds. If you have the guts to receive a package (containing a game) in the mail with "G-Collections.com" in the return address, then you surely have the guts to receive a refund check from them in the mail too.

#638

Still, my main concern is the patch issue. A year or more to wait is too much for me.

I just found a way to order directly from US, and now they place this news out of the blue in front of me. I had to wait three monts before, now how i’ll have to wait?

This is the reason why i’m in the NO front, and i can’t move from here.

#639
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
As to it being seen as a fluke if Let's Meow Meow sells lots but Hitomi does not, I hope they are smart enough to read these and other boards and realize it is not a fluke that one succeeds and one fails, it is just the uninformed which bought the game the first time, and such an occurrance won't happen a second time because they will no longer be uniformed.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-24-2004).]

I see another possibility. People who bought LMM may find the VM system so bothersome that they may decide not to buy anything else from G-C. This, to me, is the riskiest aspect of adopting VM.

As to why they hate VM, the reason may relate to technical difficulties connectng to Interlex's VM server, and inability to play LMM. For example, if you have the new win xp SP 2 installed on your computer, it may interfere with your computer's ability to connect to VM server. No connection = LMM becomes a $40 coaster. Hopefully, G-C tested VM for compatibility w/ SP 2.

#640

Just read the update in the questions about formating. When it says hardware doesn’t change, I’ve been upgrading my machine a lot in recent months. More ram, new graphics card, sound card, modem, etc. Haven’t changed my harddrive yet. I wonder what it will recognize. Then, what if you change your operating system.

I hope its setup so that when you do change something important on the computer it can match up with personal information. I hope they don’t do it based on Ip address since those are suppose to be random on dialup. Maybe match it so that, you have a username and password, that also matches up the cd key would be the best way to go I think. The way some online games due. That way if you log on from different locations or ip address once in a while it isn’t that strange unless you have several people logging from different locations not to long after another then that could show that something is up. And that more then one person might be using the same key or copies of it. I think if the VM would setup like that then it might not be as complicated or give people problems since other games do things like that.

[This message has been edited by Effect (edited 10-24-2004).]