Hi. Been off for the last week or so drawing or playing with my new Playstation 2.
Anyway, here's something I have to ask.
What contraversial topics have been covered in bishojo games/anime?
I know rape is one (despite being handled in a non-serious manner), how about some others?
lolicon
or is that so common that its not controversial anymore?
[This message has been edited by exoarchaeologist (edited 01-03-2002).]
In AliceSoft’s latest release Dai Akuji,the topic of Racism and Sexism is covered.
The story of Dai Akuji is set in a country called Nihon (Japan) who had experienced and lost a War similar to WW II.The occupying Wime (American/European) Troops look down upon the Nihonese (They called them “Yellow Maonkeys” and treated them as animals) and treat the Nihon females as prostitutes while the Nihonese doesn’t really like the Wimes any better especially the Protagonist Yamamoto Akuji who seeks to kick the Wime Troops out of his home town Oosaka.It does not help that the game protrays the Wime Troopers as useless people who cannot manage stuffs and yet demand high pay.
Though the ideas in the game should be taken lightly but the story resembles so much to real life history which might appeal to some Japanese,but I do not know about how it will look in the eyes of Americans Audience.
I doubt real lesbians would be very thrilled by the way they’re shown in these games.
quote:
Originally posted by Skyrocket:
I doubt real lesbians would be very thrilled by the way they're shown in these games.
Don't be too sure of that [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]. After all, there's women who likes bishoujo games, so why should they nor like the yuri (lesbian) sex in it? I've heard many women on various adult anime/manga/bishoujo game sites around the net speak very positive about Yuri in various animes/mangas and bishoujo games. And, after all... remember that bishoujo games aren't just about sex, they do have a story as well... and if there's a story and good reasons behind the sex, then why should anyone dislike it?
eh?
quote:
explicitly in Critical Point
sounds interesting, howso?
Kumiko, in answer to your observation about the contradiction of having the largest adult industry in the world yet considering it to be very controversial, you only need to look at the groups who raise the ruckus over adult material because they tend to be contradictory in many of their views. Many such types complain that the government is too intrusive in their affairs and lives(especially concerning money), yet these same folks are always the first to tell people how they should think and what they should find offensive. In their way of thinking, it’s more intrusive to tax people than it is to tell people how they should think. They have no concept of reality and need to pin the country’s problems on a scapegoat instead of looking at the real problems affecting society. If adult products and violence in cartoons cause many of society’s woes, as these people like to proclaim, wouldn’t Japan, which is more open and tolerant sexually and has much more violent animation (which is more graphic and violent than most American live-action films) consequently have much higher violent crime rates than the U.S.? Since I’m getting off-topic, I’ll simply say that Americans (who tend to put the good of the one ahead of the good of the many) need things to denounce to make themselves feel that they are better than others. Hence the “holier-than-thou” attitude of the groups who denounce the adult industry and ignite the controversy.
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Originally posted by Sharpe:
[B]If adult products and violence in cartoons cause many of society's woes, as these people like to proclaim, wouldn't Japan, which is more open and tolerant sexually and has much more violent animation (which is more graphic and violent than most American live-action films) consequently have much higher violent crime rates than the U.S.? B]
About the "crime rates", I think that it's in fact the opposite - Japan is one of the countries where the crime-rates are very low. But I think that it's because that, well, like Kumiko said, they're thinking of themselves as a group, not as individuals, and most people there wouldn't do anything that would hurt the group in any way.
Hmm, I never really felt the need to denouce something to make myself feel better. Then again, half the time people forget Hawaii is part of the States in the first place…
Then again, I’m under the firm belief that humans in general are often contradictory and quite likely insane. The overall insanity in America just seems to be more noticeable.
You’re right, Spectator; the question was meant to be rhetorical since I figured most folks who visit this board knew that. One of the major reasons (if not the largest reason) for the difference in crime rates is because of the way Japanese and American societies operate and not the result of the entertainment industry (adult or otherwise).
quote:
Originally posted by Sharpe:
You're right, Spectator; the question was meant to be rhetorical since I figured most folks who visit this board knew that. One of the major reasons (if not the largest reason) for the difference in crime rates is because of the way Japanese and American societies operate and not the result of the entertainment industry (adult or otherwise).
Well, sometimes, the entertainment industry (especially the adult one) are partly responsible for some things. For example, just look at the "American porn"... "American porn is nearly just about sex - nothing else. I've seen quite a lot of American porn (and about 99% of what I've seen have been boring me to death), and nearly nothing of what I saw had a decent story, it was nearly just about "lots of nasty sex"... And the women in American porn mostly acts kind of "brainless", if you know what I mean ^^;; This might, in a way, affect those who see it in a bad way... for example, if a woman in a American porn movie gets brutally raped and act like she's enjoying and acts like she wants more after that, that might affect some of the more weakminded people who watch in in a bad way; they might believe that women actually wants to be raped... In my country, two years ago, a group of teenagers attacked and group-raped a younger woman... they got caught, of course, but in the court, do you know what their excuse were? They said that they had watched lots of porn movies and after that, they thought that women actually wanted to be raped like that. They didn't even once think of the pain they might cause the girl before they did it...
But... bishoujo games are different in that way, because that they also are "educational" as Kumiko has said [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. What I mean is that if you in a bishoujo game chooses to rape a girl, you have to take the consequences of ding it, and since bishoujo games also shows the whole thing from the perspective of the raped girl herself (like Yukino in dokusen), and shows there the disgust the girl feels at being raped (both at herself and at the one who raped her) and also shows the hate she feels against the one who raped her (in other words, the games often shows the trauma the girl have to go through after she's raped)... What I want to point out here is in other words that bishoujo games (or anime) shows that the consequences of the "bad" things you do, while American porn often doesn't seem to care about "consequences" at all (I think that the American porn industry are kind of irresponsible in that way, since everything have consequences, but they often choose to ignore those consequences and just shows the "good parts" of the whole thing).
I hope I didn’t infer in any way that I think that American porn is any way like bishoujo games! Anyway, what you say about American porn is right. However, I have heard about similar cases as the rape case you mention and think that such a defense, more times than not, is just a means of shifting the blame(another case of American contradictory behavior: we all want to be individuals and responsible for our own lives, however, we never consider ourselves accountable whenever we do anything bad)–and I’m talking about many of the stories I’ve heard from my dad and best friend (both are defense attorneys–one medical, the other criminal). The only exceptions I can understand are when the defendants have real psychological problems that affect the way they view reality. Anyway, American porn is boring (unless you’re watching it with a loved one, granted it’s not too nasty for either of your tastes), whereas bishoujo games stand on their own merits, which you pointed out.
quote:
Originally posted by Orochi:
In AliceSoft's latest release Dai Akuji,the topic of Racism and Sexism is covered.The story of Dai Akuji is set in a country called Nihon (Japan) who had experienced and lost a War similar to WW II.The occupying Wime (American/European) Troops look down upon the Nihonese (They called them "Yellow Maonkeys" and treated them as animals) and treat the Nihon females as prostitutes while the Nihonese doesn't really like the Wimes any better especially the Protagonist Yamamoto Akuji who seeks to kick the Wime Troops out of his home town Oosaka.It does not help that the game protrays the Wime Troopers as useless people who cannot manage stuffs and yet demand high pay.
Though the ideas in the game should be taken lightly but the story resembles so much to real life history which might appeal to some Japanese,but I do not know about how it will look in the eyes of Americans Audience.
If Alicesoft was distibuting their games here, this is one game I assume won't get released. Godzilla vs King Ghidra (if I can remember) had a scene with Godzilla stomping on American soldiers. Now if the media hears about Dai Akuji, imagine the uproar it would cause.
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Originally posted by Kumiko Kamiyama:
Basically, "controversial" is a totally subjective term. Controversial in one person's eyes may not be controversial in another's, and vice versa. Nudity is controversial for some people... even panty shots is controversial for some.Lolicon is not really controversial in and of itself - as is explained elsewhere on the BBS, and explicitly in Critical Point, lolicon doesn't mean "pedophilia". A girl could be 25 but look and act like she's 14... or vice versa, for that matter. As Leiji says in Critical Point, "Age matters not to love". Nor should it... whether it is actual physical age or simply apparent age due to appearance and behavior.
However, there are bishoujo works that deal with rape (including underage rape) in a very serious, dark fashion - the same type of thing Hollywood deals with, but Hollywood tends to avoid showing details (of course) and tends to always show it is a negative, bad thing without exception. That is, they never seem to be able to show recovery from it in a positive way... even though such recovery does exist, like any other trauma.
Bishoujo works also deal with various fetishes that might be said to be "distasteful" to many people, such as toilet fetishes, S&M, B&D, punishment (spanking, whipping, etc), slave, electro-eroticism, and various others.
The adult industry in general is controversial in America, for some odd reason... considering we have the biggest adult industry in the world, you would not think that it would be controversial in any way, shape, or form. Not to mention the premise that we are "free" and stress individual freedoms... that includes sex or eroticism.
Odd, don't you think?
How is rape handled in Shusaku? I read on Freestyle that some Japanese players consider the game a bad joke. Has any bishojo game or anime tackled interracial romance?
Dai Akuji reminds me of the rape of Nanking. But of course, that never happened did it?heh… denial…
quote:
Originally posted by Mecha00:
How is rape handled in Shusaku? I read on Freestyle that some Japanese players consider the game a bad joke. Has any bishojo game or anime tackled interracial romance?
Super Dimension Fortress Macross had an inter racial Romance. (Roy Focker and Claudia) The Relationship was already established in the first episode.
[This message has been edited by Doug (edited 01-06-2002).]
quote:
Originally posted by Doug:
Super Dimension Fortress Macross had an inter racial Romance. (Roy Focker and Claudia) The Relationship was already established in the first episode.[This message has been edited by Doug (edited 01-06-2002).]
I was going to mension Macross but it isn't a bishojo anime. Getting back to games, I'm surprised some company hasn't thought about using a "Guess Who's Coming to Dinner" type story. For example, one of the heroine's parents would disapprove of the hero's race (ie American girl falls in love with Japanese guy and her parents don't like him).