I think the situation almost calls for a triple facepalming, to be honest.
Uh wow, all the rage about honorifics O_o
I still haven’t gotten my copy of demonbane yet. But so Imma ask , does it take place in japan? If yes, then honorifics probably belong there.
If not, then honorifics isn’t necessary.
And, honorifics isn’t necessary to enjoy eroge, I play plenty of jrpgs for consoles… and they don’t got any honorifics at all.
Otaking’s examples are horribly cherry-picked from the worst offenders. Nobody is defending the use of ‘kisama’ or ‘omae’ in subtitles, since they have obvious English equivalents. Honorifics don’t always have a matching term in English.
Honestly, it mostly comes down to the fact that a lot of people just like honorifics as a stylistic thing. By using them, you play to your base. It’s not a matter of right or wrong.
(P.S. Otaking is an egotistical jerk who shouldn’t be held in regard by anyone. I should know, I’ve still got mental bruises from our encounter. The guy really hates Madoka Magica.)
What it comes down to is that these are very complicated, very difficult decisions that the localiser has to make and they will inevitably have a profound effect on the work. There are always nuances and a hardline ‘no honorifics’ or ‘all honorifics’ approach is not going to be sufficient.
I’m not convinced JAST made the wrong decision in this case, though.
This is an interesting question, actually. No, I’m not a native speaker of Japanese. I do find, though, in reading works in Japanese I tend to think in Japanese, rather than having some internal translation process going on. It’s awfully hard to describe, though- but the role of language in one’s internal thought is known but not that well understood. We do know that language is largely necessary for self-awareness and that you do tend to think in your native language, but how multiple languages factor into that is interesting.
Maybe, but there’s other tacit clues embedded into the subtext of a story that manage to establish these things just fine- they are hardly necessary for understanding a particular relationship in the majority of cases.
I don’t see why they should be exceptions in of themselves if in of themselves they aren’t really relevant to the story- English provides plenty of powerful tools for conveying the right feeling across. If we include too much Japanese we start to deny the justification for translating the work in the first place.
It didn’t get watered down at all. The whole meaning of the joke was changed,Imho.
Lack of honorifics is not a problem with the translation. It’s a subjective stylistic issue. Let’s move on.
Yeah. The rest of the NA people should be getting their package today and I am nearly ready to talk about the game itself. If it is that important then don’t play it. One of my reasons for frequenting the forums is because this place is more mature and all.
It begs the question: do you understand Japanese (enough to, say, play a galgame)? It’s just my experience but I find it weird that people who do understand Japanese and another language (Say, English or French) tend not to think anything is lost with a good enough translation in said language that doesn’t keep the honorifics whereas the people who do complain about losing some “flavour” from the original text do not, in fact, understand said original text, thus aren’t able to get any flavour it may have. Yet, they’re somewhat able to “know” that they can but lose “something” from the original text.
From my experience with languages, all languages (and the cultures using them) are roughly equivalent, as far as expressing politeness, closeness, coldness, anger, pity, disdain, and whatever feelings, emotions or human interactions and relationships you may have. It may not be easy to translate one to the other but it can be done (well, okay, it may not be absolutely the same, but an excellent translation should be able to convey the whole meaning, feelings and implications of the original).
As far as i see it, all of this sounds like a differences in our preferences over the game’s translational style. Some of us likes it complete with the honorifics or it won’t feel complete and some of us may not have problem with honorifics. Anyway, with the voice, we will still hear the character says the honorifics~~
As the point mentioned before, we enjoyed Visual Novel in our own way, so let’s not make things complicated and enjoy the story of Demonbane~~~
just gotta wait to get my mail to see if i get my copy
Being an egotistical jerk and being correct are not necessarily mutually exclusive. I have to admit, even though I think leaving honorifics in is a good practice, him showing what it would be like to also leave in terms for “I” and “you” was … quite enlightening. As was him ripping on the way fansubbers insert their logos into the credits versus the way the creators of the goddamn show do it.
still didn’t get my copy 
Delivery can’t find your secret underground base :lol: ?
Mine arrived. It is nice. Only bad thing was that when I was walking back inside I heard something moving around. Eventually I opened it up and the disc was loose. It installed correctly, so I frankly don’t care. I have work to do tonight so I can’t get started until tomorrow. With that I wouldn’t have minded it arriving tomorrow. Now I have to fight off my impulse to play it.
I don’t know enough of Japanese, but I do know enough of German to have read books and watched shows in German and the translations in English to know with the exception of a few instances, one almost never needs to keep anything from the original save proper names (FE English speakers don’t really need to know if the word is feminine, masculine or neuter).
The one major exception comes usually when it has to do with humor, usually puns or other types of wordplay. That kind of translation isn’t so easily transmitted across language barrier. Sometimes there is something equivalent and that worked, but sometimes it fell flat. Sometimes the situation allowed for the translator to substitute their own joke in, but other times there were visual cues or story elements that made that impossible. In both cases it was hit and miss. The English jokes were sometimes good, but sometimes quite bad on the other hand, while I understood some of the German word-play humor, I realize the average person might need a better explanation. Sometimes they’re able to do this relatively easily, but others not so much, if they even try. Possibly some of these could have been handled better if the wording was more integrated. (FE: while it isn’t a German piece, the naming order in School Rumble’s manga and subtitled translations is a good example of having thing integrated to a point that when those word-play incidents appear, they make sense).
As an aside, I do note that manga translators do not follow the standards shown in the professional subtitling shown by OtaKing. So I wouldn’t take everything he says without thinking. However, the idea that too many notations are given onscreen, too many words aren’t translated (even when its a simple 1:1 word translation) and the issue of being too literal “seeing in a dream” vs. “dreaming” example are still relevant. The stuff about changing artwork, well, I know a lot of professional manga translations change the sound effect artwork which is as bad if not worse than anything he mentioned about artistic integrity. And as for the karaoke song text, he does have a point to an extent. I do think the songs could benefit with words that changed color for those who did want to sing along with the titles (music is a lot different than spoken word), but all the flashiness is unnecessary.
FINALLY!!!
…now more waiting.
Holy shit this game has anime scenes?!?! I’m liking this game even more
Oh crap!
…I finally got mine.
Going to review the packaging :
Opened up the yellow bubblewrap envelope (which is usually sufficient for DVD games… However, this time… I would have preferred an option for a box)
First impressions : Pulled it out …
Looking nice. The box looks pretty good. It’s the same cover image you see everywhere.
Looks nice, but it feels a bit cheap.
Breaking the basic plastic wrap… Tada!
Hmm? Wow. I’m actually IMPRESSED. Yes it feels a bit cheap, but what I’m holding in my hand is the closest thing I’ve seen to an official english VN BOX set release to date. It really looks even better with the wrap off.
The “box” is just a slip cover, but it’s high contrast, nicely printed. Looking on the back looks awesome as well. All of the pictures on the back make you want to SHOW This off to someone. No nudity or overly awkward pictures.
The Bad news, is the slipcover box (this is not a wimpy slipcover either, but…) the bad news is the slipcover is ever so slightly oversized; and although I take back my remark about it being a cheap material slipcover; (It feels nice to the touch even, that kind of middle grade rough photo texture) being oversized during transit means it’s prone to damage on the ends. The front and back look nearly flawless. But, the top, bottom and side have visible transit wear.
It is a shame for the BEST LOOKING ENGLISH VISUAL NOVEL RELEASE YET to not be in perfect condition for the collector… Ah, well… Let’s move on.
4/5 star slipcover. (due to it easily being damaged)
Taking out the DVD case inside… and the “artbook”.
Okay, I’m greeted by the back of the “artbook”, and I see a totally awesome image, with the VERY easy and nicely printed Activation Code.
The “artbook” FAILS as an artbook.
The “instruction manual” OWNS as an instruction manual. This is a commercial grade instructions manual. The kind you expect to see with 60$ big name console games. The whole thing is photo quality. All in color. Instructions, and bonus ART.
Without a doubt the best english instruction manual I’ve seen for a visual novel. [The limited edition Da Capo had a decent “art book”, but no instruction manual. Sure, who reads the instructions these days… Still, I guarantee you’ll want to flip through this manual. I didn’t recognize any of the art pictures they included, except maybe one.
5/5 star instruction booklet.
Now for the DVD case.
I am greeted with a DIFFERENT picture on the DVD case, which I admit looks awesome. Seriously. I think this pic was used on one of the Japanese limited releases. The printing on the case is pretty good, not quite as awesome looking as the slipcover. The back of the DVD case is the same as the slipcover ( a little disappointing, but again you could still probably want to show this one off. )
The DVD case itself is on the cheaper side. The black case itself is kinda worn feeling; I’ll probably replace the case with some random hollywood DVD movie case.
Opening it up… Ah the sweet scent of freshly printed DVDs xD It’s good.
The inside of the case is, not as cheap as I previously thought, but needs improvement, The button holding the DVD is not too bad though. Still, it looks prone to damage compared to better cases.
DVD case art 4.4/5
DVD case itself 3/5
And lastly the DVD.
Looks lovely, they crammed a lot of text though around the disc. Although that kind of fits the Demonbane theme/logo…
The art is awesome.
The actual DVD quality is uh… It’s probably a 4/5. It isn’t the extremely shiny type used in some big name games. [Quality of disc I think means longevity and ease of reading after scratches]
DVD itself 4.1/5
Now to actually install it… I’ll save the content review for later xD
But, BOTTOMLINE :
Best looking official english Visual Novel release I have. SOLID 4.2/5
It does not have a real art book though. MangaGamer’s Da Capo LE, had better DVD case and slightly better printing.
Although the instruction manual for Demonbane has seemingly better quality paper than the Da Capo LE art book.
Also Demonbane didn’t come with a little catalog of other games in english which I kinda find professional.
Also, no other little extras; cards or whatnot.
Best pacakged JAST release yet.
T_T
I want my copy~
Swatty-sama, I’m willing to bet I’m the biggest Azifu~ fan here. WHY ISN’T SHE IN MY HOME YET? T_T In English, I mean. She’s present at least thrice as a game character, and about a dozen times as a figure, not taking into account the calendar pictures, artbooks, etc.
cries a river
I understand enough Japanese to be able to very poorly follow along with a Japanese visual novel via the heavy use of AGTH and translation. I prefer that translations leave the honorifics in rather than use things like (for example) Big Sister So-and-so in place of Oneesama.
There have been a handful of times where a localization has been so good the lack of these things doesn’t bug me. The translations of Persona 3/4, FF12, and Metal Gear Solid all were top-notch and worked around this well. But I have also seen (but unfortunately cannot come up with any examples) of poorly-handled translation (like someone who gets addressed with -oneesama being called Big Sister [name], which does not flow naturally at all). Generally, anime subtitles have to be terse; you can’t cover up the screen with the kind of small print TV ads use to try to bury the disclaimer in an almost-unreadable paragraph of text.