I doubt that would defeat piracy. It would increase sales, but I doubt piracy would decrease signficantly. As long as people can get something for free instead of paying for it, there will be people who pirate. Most people don’t pirate for convenience. They pirate because they don’t want to pay. Others pirate because they believe all media should be free and that it’s their right to enjoy all of it without paying. You’re probably not going to change much even with a comprehensive store. I don’t think iTunes has really slowed music piracy.
I’m kind of with Nandemonai on this. While I think piracy will always exist to some degree, the best way to marginalize it is something along the lines of what he suggested above.
Again, I think you’re missing the point of why most people pirate. They do it because it’s free, not because it’s easy. I know people who spend a great deal of effort pirating games (like Steam games, which are harder to crack) and trying to play them (finding cracked multiplayer servers or whatever). They do this because they want to play for free. Even though the game was available on Steam for $20 and could be bought in seconds, they chose to take the extra effort to play it for free.
The people who pirate for convenience are in the minority. Again, look at iTunes, Amazon music store and whatever else music services out there that have a comprehensive library. Has music piracy declined in recent years? It doesn’t seem like it. At best, convenience just makes people who were buying things already buy more, or maybe it attracts a new audience. It doesn’t really convince pirates to pay.
My personal opinon is that nothing will defeat piracy, not DRM, not starforce, secure rom etc. It used to be that a company could make their game rediculously large that it deters piraters but now with the interent speed up to the mb/s range, that doesn’t work anymore. They can come up with as many anti-piracy software as they want, but it will be cracked eventually. Steam is harder to pirate but I believe its system also deters many people to buy their product; it requires internet connection and there is no physical copy, I only buy from steam when I can’t find it anyware else.Whether those people who cracks it want to play for free or if they simply wants boasting rights or if its a competetion for them is a moot point. Bottomline, piracy, like robbery, assault, traspasing etc will persist for the same reason any other crime persists; people do it because they can. End result is that the loser will be those who buys the actual product, companies make some very nasty anti-piracy software like starforce and its the user who have to deal with it.
Actually, an internet connection isn’t required for Steam games beyond the initial download and for multiplayer. Gametap, on the other hand, absolutely requires an internet connection all the time.
Thinking about it, eroge makers could probably nearly eliminate piracy if they used Starforce Pro. Splinter Cell: Chaos Theory used it and it took about a year for it to be cracked, and it was a really high profile game that some of the best crackers would work on. I doubt eroge attracts as many top tier crackers, so if they used it, it would likely never be cracked. The biggest downside is that scratches on the disk could render the game unplayable. Honestly, Starforce isn’t as bad as people make it out to be. I sometimes wonder if the uproar was started by pirates because its toughest form was so hard to crack.
This argument is so passÈ. From Himeya to PaletWeb to download sites to proxy services, it never has been easier to legitimately get erogames, without living in Japan. Just on these boards, many people who buy original Japanese games (Kagami, Unicorn, Spec, myself, zalas are among the ones you personally know) with just a credit card and an Internet connection. While it’s incredibly easy now, it’s now recent whatsoever, with people being able to buy such games a decade ago, through Himeya.
there a chance that few years from now (if not sooner), the eroge makers will begin to stream their games. Using flash/silverlight as their engine, they will deliver their games online, whoever doesn’t have an internet connection will have to wait for few months until the standalone copy is released.
although, I don’t really see why they don’t go for console release first then the PC copy later, as some western companies have already started to do (heck even Japanese companies are doing it, The Last Remnant for the PC will be released in few days).
the basic rule is, when you buy a title you not paying for the current title (which can be downloaded after it is released), but paying for the next title to be released. Whoever doesn’t realise this yet shouldn’t complain when companies decided to not release “that” type of titles. Only sale figures convince companies that people want that type of games, blogs and forum posts comes later.
for now MG should really consider allowing 3rd part to resale their releases in whatever currency that reseller wish to sale it. This in my opinion should make the company a bit more known to end consumer who might never have heard of it.
oh, while I am flaming, get over the DRM complain already, JAST and MG have NOT gone as far as western companies have gone to protect their games. :roll:
Its not fesable, starforce isn’t free, the company have to pay to use it. So unless you want these games to be more expensive than it is already, compaines aren’t going to use it. The problem with starforce is not blown out of proportion, it really does cause problems, I can get technical but this is not the form for it. A lot of people had problems with it, why do you think many companies stopped using them? Ubisoft, the publisher of Chaos theory has since chose not to use it, they use secure rom now: http://www.gamespot.com/news/6147655.html. If they are abadoning it, that means starforce is actually affecting their sales and there is actually problems with the starforce system.
Do you really think that people would really put up with having to stream a game they bought? Especially at around 9000 yen? It damn well better be much cheaper if it’s that inconvenient and potentially unreliable (compared to people talking about playing digitally downloaded games in the future, this would be much, much more iffy).
And a console release? You do realize these are EROge right? Releasing them on consoles would remove all the ero, and some games would pretty much be nothing without it :lol:. Not to mention the console base is probably a lot smaller and the games would play worse on consoles, so who would want them? Console versions usually only sell because they have added content, not less content.
I really doubt adding an effective copy protection would raise the price of the game. If it does its job well, it could even lower the cost of games since it wouldn’t be pirated to hell and back (at least in the beginning).
And the reason companies stopped using Starforce? Bad press. Go ahead and get technical with me. There’s absolutely zero evidence that Starforce caused any of the alleged problems people had. It’s probably no worse than SecuROM or any of the other copy protection methods in compatibility problems and other similar problems. Can you prove it ever damaged computers like some people claimed? I doubt it.
Here’s a good article on piracy. It’s not like the typical spin from media companies or the ridiculous drivel from pirates. It’s a fairly balanced and interesting article.
But it used to be hard. So for a long time there was no competition. The fact it’s gotten much easier is well and good, but the pirate sites got to be huge because of the complete lack of competition for a very long time. Not that they would have never existed had there been legit ways to get games much earlier, of course they would. But they would have not gotten to the degree of pervasiveness where they drown the legitimate companies’ presence by default.
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the price would most likely go down (in the initial stage), once people learn to put-up and shut-up (again) then the price might go up. Although if the trial does prove profitable, the price might even go lower to attract more sales. The initial trail would most likely use smaller (shorter) titles, if it works larger titles might follow.
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the same was said about renting online movies (and having them delivered over the internet instead of physical media), yet today even stores that had nothing to do with online delivery are doing it and are delivery HD movies online! If you think about, immediate access to your game without lifting your butt and you will be playing the game less then a minute after you purchased it, who wouldn’t want that? :mrgreen:
(note: you wouldn’t even need MS Windows+PC to play these type of titles, they will be legally available on the console and any Operating System of choice, as long as it support flash or sliverlight and it connected to a broadband connection :twisted: )
well D.C.P.C., Kanon and AIR are both eroge (on the PC) and all ages (on the console). I am sorry if my post was ambiguous, but the ero part of the PC release would be “the extra” you get over the console release. The console release can still have fanservice though :twisted: . If the console copy is released “first” then people are bound to get, those who are too stubborn will wait for the PC release and while they are waiting they can get the PC exclusive sex-ramps. The console market might be smaller, but the same ones that get the console titles, for the extra, would get the first release for the console and many of the PC exclusive guys would try to get their hands on the console. The price of the consoles have been dropping, people should be able to afford them now (if they can afford eroge :roll: ).
the internet changed how you can deliver your digital goods, companies would be forced to adapt or they will lose to their competitors.
in reference to this post http://forums.novelnews.net/showpost.ph … tcount=561
It’s not the same with movies at all. The ones you pay full price for you can save to your computer and rewatch without having to download it again. Only rentals are streamed. Something that can only be accessed by streaming doesn’t seem like owning a copy of it, and I doubt many people would be willing to pay anywhere near full price for it. The only thing remotely similar to your idea would be Onlive, but the main point of that service is rendering the game for you.
And your whole idea counters the quote you have from Newell at the end. How is forcing a customer to stream your game making it less hassle and a better product? Once pirates figure out how to rip the streamed games, they’ll be providing a superior product.
As for your console idea, I doubt many people would buy the console version if they knew that a superior PC version will be coming out. I’m sure most people are patient enough to wait for a guaranteed definitive version instead of double dipping. And again, the console versions are inferior. They will have an inferior interface/controls compared to the PC version and would not be as portable. Is selling an inferior product really the way to get more customers?
I still hope MangaGamer will learn from all these issues and
somehow gain enough experience to become a good publisher of visual novels one day.
I really appreciate those games being translated into english,
however MangaGamer is probably the most chaotic company I have seen so far. 
Lets see if they evolve from here…
I just hope that they’re around long enough to release The Queen & Princess as your Rewards someday. (I mean, I hope they’re around for years to come tbh, but the whole “indefinitely suspended” site update makes me wonder) I own everything outside of Tasty Shafts from them, so I really don’t have a problem paying Euro prices, pretty much figure that a 49.99 translates to about $70 USD, all things considered it’s around the cost of a PS3/Xbox360 game without the hassle of importing it. I’m also probably the only guy that was less than impressed with Da Capo, the 2 side stories were far better than any other paths in the game. Honestly, I’d like to play Suika as well, but Da Capo just left a bad taste in my mouth, even though the translation was excellent. Edelweiss is so far my favorite game released by MG, but that’s just cause I thought the comedy was so well done. (the whole character lip-syncing is really impressive as well, as is the soundtrack)
But yes, I wish they would use “Spring 2009” or “Late 2009” instead of exact dates, then pushing the games back on the exact dates, it’s just something I’ve come to expect from them, so it really doesn’t bother me anymore. But seriously, give me my medieval Q&P before you go belly up MG, I mean Deedlit’s my avatar ffs, and since I’ve beaten Brave Soul about 5000 times already something new Sword/Sorcery wise in the ero genre would be nice.
IMO, piracy can never be defeated, it can only be either controlled or busted.Piraters and crackers do it because they want to get stuff for free and/or they just like the pleasure or challenge of cracking.I dont think developing softwares will help, everything gets cracked, its just a matter of time. By and large it is a moral and ethical issue.
Now I dont prefer using steam, I mean its so damn difficult to understand, and I am not sure if its 100% secure. Other sources too. Even if you do manage to develop something, people will just rip off original copies and crack,If something Like Windows can be cracked, then probably nothing is secure.
So at best the situation can be minimized and delayed by a few weeks or months at max. As it stands, there are people who will call themselves entusiasts but would rather have companies die than extend support. The idea obviously should be to capture as much a market as possible, while maintaining strict standards and have security check on piraters. I am not an expert but 1 way I can think of is to create a standard common database for downloading.
This another argument, though, and not the point to which I replied. You did write that " pirate sites exist because people want these things, yet they cannot get them legitimately", which is wrong because if people want these things, they can easily get them legitimately.
There, is where the worm lays, between the Japanese and non-Japanese markets. In Japan, for erogames, pretty much everything is decided during the first (or two first) week(s) of the release of a game, with only a few anecdotal copies sold afterwards, save for really famous games. As such, a few weeks delays is sufficient for piracy not to impede sales.
First of all you need to remember something, companies like Peach princess and Mangagamer are tiny compared to say Ubisoft, Ubisoft can absorb the cost and not pass it down to consumers because their games, usually tomclancy titled, sells in the half million to million range. I seriously doubt any PP game could even boast a tenth of that, you add a licencing fee of starforce and their cost goes way up.
Now for starforce: Yeah right :lol: and thats why Ubisoft was being sued for 5 million dollars for releasing games with Starforce http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/4-2-2006-92511.asp which, in your own article states it had " some known compatibility issues". You want to be technical? Fine, some versions of Starforce actively scans your computer for emulators like Daemon tools and either a. disables them, b. won’t let you run your legal copy of the game eventhough you are not using the emulator to run it. before you argue whats daemon tools is doing in a computer to start with, it has other uses besides pirating. Or, and this is the worst part, Starforce installs its own drivers WITHOUT telling you about it, it stays there even AFTER you uninstall the game AND its known to cause problems with opitcal drives. Not to mention their program grants Ring 0 access to Ring 3 level programs in turn causing problems with some SATA and SCSI systems. SCSI is pretty rare but SATA sysems are vey common. So, not only did you pay 50 bucks for a steaming piece of crap that doesn’t run, it also screws with your computer at the same time. I’ve had to go into system properties to renable my optics drives after I bought X3 reunion (which had starforce when it was first launched). So unless all the complaints were fake or from pirates (not possible because in egosoft forum alone, there were many complaints and many of them sumbitted their regestration code that came with the game when they regestered in the forums which denotes which game they bought in their profile) there is something wrong with their program. Lastly why doesn’t say Secur Rom or TAGES get the same type of publicity eventhough its also a anti-piracy program? They too cause some problems, but not nearly to the degree of starforce. What does starforce PR have to say about all this? instead of getting technical, all they responds was “You’re lying! If you publish an apology on our forums for being a liar, we may continue conversation” very offical and does alot to refute the alligations. 
I doubt it. There are still Russian companies that use Starforce, and I highly doubt they sell anywhere as many copies as Ubisoft does. It shows that even small companies can afford using it. If it works well enough, the increase in sales will very likely easily surpass the money lost from using it.
Right, and when does someone being sued mean anything? America is the country of frivilous lawsuits. Did you not read what happened to the lawsuit? It was dropped since there was no evidence.
SecuROM, Safedisc, and probably other copy protections do this too. It’s left to the publisher whether to actually enforce it or not. I agree that it’s annoying and shouldn’t be done, but it’s not exlusive to Starforce.
Safedisc also installed its own driver with ring 0 access. And guess what? Your precious Daemon Tools and similar programs install ring 0 drivers too. Oh noes! The article also lists SpeedFan as another very innoculous program that installs ring 0 drivers. Also, nearly all security programs install ring 0 drivers.
Wait, what? I think SecuROM got even worse publicity than Starforce because of limited activations. Every copy protection will cause problems for some users. I’m saying Starforce’s problems were overblown because of a lot of fear mongering. People claimed it damaged their computers when there was no proof it ever did. Nearly every complaint about it was an outright lie or utterly blown out of proportion.
What you mean the fact that starforce has been cracked already, in fact every version of starforce has been cracked, I don’t see how that deters people from downloading these games. The russian companies, some of which, while no EA in size, is pretty big in Russia and they are not marketing in a niche within a niche market. Their games are usually space sim, WWII or RPG in nature, none of those are really a niche market though space sim is not as big as it use to be back in the wing commander days, there are still people (like me) who would buy them.
Because he sued the Ubisoft instead of starforce, wrong company to sue and I get the feeling he got what he wanted from ubi which was removal of starforce. In fact if memory serves, they settled out of court and he probably got some money, just not 5 mil.
However, the others goes away after you uninstall their program or at least I never had problems with them. Starforce sticks around and requires you to go to their website to get a removal program, why the f*** should I need to do that not to mention my other games with secur rom like civl 4 runs fine, why is it that the only games that I have problems with, like X3, all have starforce? Is it my fault that I have SATA drives and expect the games I buy to work with them? Even your own article you use to support your claim states that Starforce has computability issues.
Did you even read my post? program can install on ring 0, I don’t care, what I care about is that Starforce drive, a ring 0 will allow other programs at ring 3 which has nothing to do with starforce or the game I’m playing, to access ring 0, creating a security risk where harmful programs can get into the core and damage my system. Think of it as aids, HIV will never kill you, it simply makes you vulnerable to other disease. Given the fact that a ring 3 program is the least privileged and most easily affected, allowing that to access ring 0, the core, will, at least, destabilize my Computer or most likely, install something I don’t want and not beneficial to my system or just outright crash my computer.
I think you don’t understand why people are angry at starforce. SecuRom limits activation, yes, I’m well aware of the red alert 3 fresco that EA brought about but the complaint isn’t my computer is crashing or malware some how got into ring 0, its the number of activations which was 3 then they increased it I think. SecuRom I hate too, thats why I didn’t buy RA3 despite being a C&C fan but it does not compromise your computer. Do a simple search of Starforce problems, unless you are telling me everyone is lying through their teeth, an argument I don’t find compelling at all since the problems they describe are often very specific which I myself have also experienced (my CD rom driver issue for example) others I have seen in person, Starforce cause their computer to crash, I hated it because he was my friend and I was obliged to spend several hours of my h game time trying to fix it for him. There is a reason that even in 2008 edge magazine labeled starforce as the number 1 most annoying DRM methods. http://www.edge-online.com/features/ten … page=0%2C3