Does Manga Gamer seriously expect us to believe

That their titles are being delayed because they need to renew the site? Then after that, low and behold they later say an “important security risk has been found in the game program.” As a result, they postponed all the games because of that too.

http://www.mangagamer.com/main/

I wish they’d remove the release dates and simply say, “When it’s done.” Then they don’t have to embarrass themselves with fabricated news dodging their failed release date/s :roll:. Better yet, they could have the release dates and just be honest when they need to postpone something. I’d rather admit to postponing a game’s release than deflect the blame on something important, like webpage and security issues. They’re hurting their company’s integrity.

Translation: We’re looking for better DRM. Mwa, ha, ha, ha! :twisted:

:wink: :stuck_out_tongue: :lol:

my guess is they got hacked alot

All their games have none-DRM versions released onto the internet within 7 days. Which is what they want to prevent i think. But as far as i know, they can’t prevent it.

only hinata bokko, da capo and edelweiss have been pirated to my knowledge

I didn’t even know any of them were pirated. I thought the whole point of DRM was to prevent that, lol.

In any case, the only game I’m interested in is “Boku no mesuhisho wa doukyuusei,” or as MG calls it, “My Sex Slave is a Classmate.” I’m not touching it though until they reduce the price or offer a special deal, cause there’s no way I’m paying ¬Ä29.95 Euros ($39.81). Judging by my luck though, they’ll never reduce the price, go bankrupt, and take down the website. Then the translation will be lost forever on account of its DRM. :roll:

Oh didn’t you know? It’s the popular trend to make the worst DRM you can come up with to force down your paying customer’s throats while the pirates play it hassle free of no charge a few days later.

I understand the reasons for DRM, but I still can’t stand the lengths companies are going to now days, knowing the only person who’s going to suffer for it is the paying customer. They’re all to aware it doesn’t even do what it was intended for aside from buying them a few days. The only winner in all this is the people designing these DRM schemes.

I miss the days where the only hassle a customer was put through was entering in a CD key. I’m getting old I suppose…

I believe that their store software doesn’t actually support products without release dates. Granted, they should just set the date to something ridiculously far away, like 2099 or something, like what Right Stuf does, and then set the date back once they have a date. Thus, until a product is actually out, don’t count on the release date for anything.

Well, how much are you willing to pay for it assuming nothing changes? How much are you willing to pay if it were DRM free? I wonder if MangaGamer should institute a DRM system similar to some eroge companies, where it’s limited number of activations for the first couple of months, and then unlimited activations, followed by a patch to remove the DRM in a year.

Sounds like what Light does. I didn’t know anyone else used a similar system; the only other DRM I’ve really encountered is stuff like that software battery thing (which gives you unlimited activations and a total duration of a HUNDRED YEARS anyway - plus, really really AWESOME things like Yumemishi have this so if you don’t like it you’re going to miss out) and the dlsite serial thing (which limits the number of activations, but that’s never bothered me in practice). No clue how effective that is, but my overall perspective is that unless your game is an MMO, people are going to end up playing it without paying for it no matter what you do. Even if you came up with some ridiculously elaborate system involving sending a decryption key for every CG and every script online while the person is playing the thing (thus requiring a constant internet connection) people can still intercept all that shit by clearing the game with a legitimate purchase and create a hacked release to intercept the connection code and supply the pre-collected decryption keys.

Well, assuming I was into that sort of thing (I’m not) and/or sufficiently bored (I’m not) I’d probably be willing to pay* the 2,800 that dlsite is asking ($28.56 USD) given that the game looks to have reasonable production levels and be something that would take at least a weekend to clear - but, of course, I’d be paying that for the original game, not a halfassed translation. The dlsite version also uses DRM, mind, and it’s serial number limited activation crap, but eh. How much would I be willing to pay for a DRM-free version? No different - while I may prefer my stuff to not be DRM-encumbered, that preference does not translate into a dollar value like that because DRM in practice rarely inconveniences me.

*keep in mind I paid near full price for SHUFFLE of all things, so plainly I’m the kind of person who has too much money to begin with >_>

Personally, to us who buy original Japanese games, $30 sound so cheap I’m still wondering why US fans complain. Of course, you could say that (translated) anime is so much cheaper in the US than in Japan but considering the awful quality due to audio and video compression rate, I often buy the original Japanese DVDs anyway…

I did pay full price. Preordered, LE, etc. Of course, I could say that since I preordered, I didn’t know how bad it’d be! :wink:

I bow to you all high and mighty people who can play their eroge in japanese but we humble folk who must play in english don’t have many options, do we? And although I don’t expect new games from Mangagamer sooner than next year, I’m actually willing to buy their overpriced Suika game, although my income is not that high… sigh…

I must also say I personally don’t understand the reasons from DRM. It’s only good for attracting pirates. Nothing else.

We pay full price, though. You may not have many options, but you overall get better prices… yet complain about them being overpriced! :roll:

Aye. Paying $30 is peanuts compared to what we pay for the Japanese original. Western gamers are actually spoiled when it comes to pricing: a fact that people on 2chan have jealously pointed out. In Japan, most eroge are standardized at 8800 yen (usually $100 after taxes and company service fees; add another $30 for shipping), irrespective of the game content quality and quantity. I’ve payed 8800 yen for a high grade twincest that lasts weeks, and I’ve payed 8800 yen for a shitty grade twincest title that lasts 30 minutes. Sometimes from the same company no less.

You get de-censoring and translation for CHEAPER (one-third to half the price) than the Japanese version. And the only thing you have to pay for is DRM? Seriously. If DRM was the only thing I had to worry about with Japanese originals, and they only cost me $45 a pop, I’d take the DRM and be happy with it. I could get twice the eroge I can afford.

Seeing how extensive the Japanese originals are pirated, can you blame them? Just about every eroge in Japan is pirated in the West. Name any eroge released after 1990: you could find a torrent of it faster than you could an importer that legally carries it. DRM slows piracy for a few days… maybe a few weeks if you’re lucky. No DRM means piracy happens the moment a box is opened. Don’t blame DRM… blame piracy.

Type MinDeaD BlooD in a Google search engine. At least two damnable pirate sites pop up before the official BCyc site. And you wonder why Japanese game studios are so paranoid of the Western market? :roll:

I have a feeling it’s an easy(?) way for companies to say to their shareholders “hey! We’re doing something about this piracy thing.”

The prices of different quality eroges start to diverge after that, though. Last I saw you could get Touka Gettan for $30 or so, and it only came out last year. Similarly, a copy of Sayonara wo Oshiete, Moshimo Ashita ga Hare Naraba or TsukiBako will set you back hundreds of dollars easily just because of the difficulty in obtaining such a thing.

But does DRM really slow piracy all that much, and is it worth it for the bad press commonly associated with DRM schemes, especially when they go wrong? Well, I guess that’s the eroge companies’ choice to make, really.

I don’t think anyone can answer such a question, no more than anyone can say how much piracy is prevalent, or hurts the industry. One would need some kind of figures about the matter, and such figures are pretty much impossible to obtain.

The point is: DRM costs money.
Publishers pay hard cash for the DRM licenses.

DRM does not much more than causing issues for customers while pirates play the games cracked and free of DRM anyway.
The publishers should just save their money and time when it comes to DRM mechanisms.

As OLF pointed out however, it’s their choice. It’s also the choice of the companies licenses to them (in that they demand it as part of the contract agreement). Sure… DRM costs money: but for all we know, they might have only paid $2 a download for each copy. It still doesn’t change the fact of paying less than $50 a copy for eroge, which is a helluva lot cheaper than the Japanese are getting.

Paying $38 or $40 for a title really isn’t that huge a difference.

Of course I can blame them. They know it accomplishes none of the goals they have in mind. They know it inconveniences their customers. Knowing these things, they choose to do it anyway.

Does this mean the pirates are right? Hell no, of course it doesn’t. The pirates get most of the blame here. The companies were placed in an impossible situation, but that does not mean they don’t deserve blame for things that they did that helped entrench the situation. (And yes, restrictive DRM entrenches the situation; it makes sales go down, which exacerbates the problem it was intended to address.)

But this is a real problem. The real problem, if you ask me. It’s a vicious cycle. I believe a market could have been built for these games. As things like Persona 3, and Disgaea, have demonstrated, there is a market willing to go for this sort of thing. They’re just stuck in the same ghetto that RPGs were. Except far worse, because RPGs were still being brought over in the bad old days; just not very many, and often-questionable ones at that. But with these games, very little ever makes it anywhere, so it’s hard even to prove by counterexample that “Hey, this thing sold well!”.

The pirate sites exist because people want these things, yet they cannot get them legitimately. This is the same reason fansubbing exists, but the hgame scene never had anything remotely like the old fansub ethic (which in any case is all but dead). Nobody is going to pick up … let’s say … Akazukin Chacha. It’s just never going to happen. The handful of other really-old nobody-will-ever-license-this shows that DID get licensed, bombed. Since people want it, but it isn’t being provided, they simply said “fine, we’ll take it”. (Yes, I’m aware of the large armies of people who raise the Jolly Roger at the drop of a pin. They exist no matter what you do, but the effect I’m describing only applies to unlicensed material.)

Unfortunately the effect of this is that if someone DID pick up Cha Cha, people “already have it” and don’t buy the actual release. (I actually was in an eroge panel at a con once, where the presenter (!) used a pirate copy of TCI for his demo. When I called him on it, those were his exact words.) This undermines and can even destroy the potential to sell Cha Cha. Similarly hgames have an avalanche of piracy because there was no legitimate market to speak of, so the pirates captured all the mindshare by default. Now you have to dig thru almost to the bottom of the first page of search results before MinDead Blood takes you to the maker’s homepage. Hell, even a thread on this board comes up halfway down! The legitimate homepage is several entries below Narg talking about their products!

Once you get into this trap, it becomes a self-reinforcing cycle of doom, where getting written off prompts the behavior that prompts getting written off. It also doesn’t help that the handful of times companies tried to “test the waters” of a dating-sim type product, they put out steaming-pile shovelware (because it was cheap) and then when it failed, concluded there wasn’t any money there.

I’m convinced piracy (in general) will only be defeated once you can get anything by going to a central online database that is totally comprehensive. (Yes, I do mean exactly that: anything ever commercially released by anyone.) iTunes proved that this model works. Google has already gone a long way with the book settlement – they will eventually have every book anyone ever wrote that has not been lost. There literally is no other way to trump the dodgy sources. Until the pirate networks are worse at having what you want than the legit networks, we will never win. But I’m not even sure this would help for eroge, because that would create controversies similar to the RapeLay nonsense when it was discovered that games in the import section were frequently explicit.

(This would require a change in copyright law, effectively creating a sort of compulsory license similar to the ones already in place for covering a song. Administering this will be an absolute nightmare, especially for imported works. Orphaned works are another big problem.)