download vs disc

Visual Novel Community Off Topic
#1

Since the idea of releasing b-games in download form seems to be gaining momentum, I thought I’d voice my preference.

When I buy software I’d rather have physical media. That’s the only way I feel I have ownership. With discs you are free to install or reinstall games whenever you please. With a download you’re dependent on a hard drive that sooner or later will have to be reformatted or replaced. You can transfer the data to removable media, but installation usually requires an activation code from the vendor. Whether or not that activation code is available for multiple installations depends on the seller. They may limit it to the initial system, and they may drop support whenever they choose. When you have the installation media in hand, you know it will be available when you need it.

Without reopening the V-Mate debate, that system has the same shortcomings as download software. You can only install three times. You can’t sell or lend the game to anyone. Playing it requires going back to the vendor every time. It’s more like renting than buying. V-Mate discs are a convenience for those without a broadband connection, but they’re not like standalone products.

Your thoughts?

#2

I agree. I want to have it on a disc that I bought, preferably with a nice package.

Downloading just feels so cheap anyway, and it takes away the thrill of buying, and receiving the game in the mail (I rarely get mail).

#3

If the price is low (I’m thinking to http://www.archonia.com/index.php . Meow Meow and Hitomi for 15 Euro, that was a great price!! -unfortunately, only Hitomi is still available-), I much prefer downloadable games: no shipping charges, no Customs tariffs, no Mail service “problems”.
Besides, the “replayable” value of most erogames is almost nil/void/nada/zero. I re-play very rarely the majority of my erogames (both Japanese and English), therefore I don’t have problems with the shortcomings of this system.

#4

Well since both bishoujo publishers are located fairly close to me. I have no problems with them shipping them So physical media for me.

#5

Well, I’m kind of on the fence here. While having physical discs shipped from the US costs me $15-20 extra (plus the occasional extra 25% tax when customs intercept it), I really like owning the discs and boxes. When my money is running low and I wonder where it all went, I like looking at a shelf full of manga, games, DVDs etc and knowing I have something tangible I can call my own.

But if the downloaded games become $10 cheaper like G-Collections V-Mate games, I’m looking at from $25 to $40 saved per title, which is a lot of money even in the short run (and s+h for several titles plus the occasional customs slap quickly adds up).

I can’t really take sides here.

[This message has been edited by AG3 (edited 01-12-2005).]

#6

As long as I can burn the installer to a CD and keep a copy of it forevermore and not have to worry about installation / activation arbitrarily far off into the future … sure, downloading games is perfectly fine with me.

#7

How long do you think buying Physical media will remain as an option? the Computer industry is evolving too fast for most of us anyway, it’s only a matter of time before “they” abandon (more like forced separation) from DVDs and CDs.

On a more personal note, I do love having CDs around. I reminds me of the precious dollars I spend. The only problem is, I’d lose them, and then I get really pissed at myself.

#8

I crash my computer far too often, so downloading games isn’t that appealing to me. I prefer to be on the safe side and get something physically existent for my money. Besides, getting a physical copy of a game satisfies the hunter/gatherer in me. So I’m not likely to buy a downloadable version of a game, even if it comes cheaper than a regular version.

#9
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
As long as I can burn the installer to a CD and keep a copy of it forevermore and not have to worry about installation / activation arbitrarily far off into the future ... sure, downloading games is perfectly fine with me.
Ah, but that's the problem. If the download file is capable of installing a playable game, it's instantly piratable - no crack needed.

That's why most download products require activation keys. Those keys are usually based on the current system profile or the customer account. In the first case it may be impossible to use on a different system. In the second case, you're dependent on the company maintaining a data base for your account to issue a new activation key.

Games that are sold on CD use disc security schemes to prevent copying or playing without the original CD. That may not be as effective as download security, but it gives the owner more control over installation and safer backup.

#10
quote:
Originally posted by BluntWeapon:
How long do you think buying Physical media will remain as an option? the Computer industry is evolving too fast for most of us anyway, it's only a matter of time before "they" abandon (more like forced separation) from DVDs and CDs.

Software companies have been trying to move to this scheme for years now. They haven't had success yet. First, the bandwidth hasn't REALLY been there. Second, people just like CDs.

Companies so far haven't been able to get the public to accept download-only products, and I doubt they'll be able to in the near future. Even paid-for MP3s let you burn them to CD now.

In the grand scheme of things, such a development is probably inevitable. But I don't see it happening anytime soon.

#11
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
Software companies have been trying to move to this scheme for years now. They haven't had success yet. First, the bandwidth hasn't REALLY been there.

But with programs like BitTorrent (which doesn't HAVE to be used illegally), bandwidth is no longer an issue. Using BitTorrent, for example, the company can provide a constant seed to maintain the file, making the connection just as reliable as direct download, while saving a tremendous amount of bandwidth. As a back-up, a direct download option could be provided as a last resort, with some method to encourage downloaders to use it as a last resort (make direct download cost $1 more or something).

As I said--problem solved.

#12
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
As I said--problem solved.
It's not just the company's bandwidth you have to consider. Users on dialup can't afford the weeks it might take to download a full DVD, bittorrent or otherwise.

Those of us who have the bandwidth may have other issues. I don't feel comfortable about paying for a download today that I may have to pay for again a year from now or may not be able to find later. A physical disc allays such fears.

#13

Well yes, of course downloadable games have their ups and downs. I’m just pointing out that it’s very much a viable option nowadays. Downloadable games would make a nice alternative to physical media, rather than a replacement. We don’t necessarily need to pick one option over the other, as you seem to be implying.

quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
I don’t feel comfortable about paying for a download today that I may have to pay for again a year from now or may not be able to find later.

This shouldn’t be as much of a problem if you back-up the games to CD or to another hard drive, etc. Expiration due to upgrades or some such might still be an issue, but the games would be cheaper, too. As I see it, the downloadable option is nice for games that you’d like to play, yet aren’t willing to pay the full price and/or shipping charges. Physical media would probably still be preferred for games that you really want.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 01-19-2005).]

#14
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
We don't necessarily need to pick one option over the other, as you seem to be implying.
It's my impression that people generally choose the least expensive option. That would be downloading in this case. As buyers switch to dl, the sale of disc products decreases. This being such a small market to begin with, it wouldn't take much for it to dry up altogether. Then there will be only one option.

quote:
This shouldn't be as much of a problem if you back-up the games to CD or to another hard drive, etc.
As I said before, download products require registration keys to prevent piracy. That means revisiting the company when you need to do a reinstallation.

I've followed backup and recovery procedures for other software products I've purchased online. It didn't help. Registration keys are time sensitive. If the company is no longer around, no longer supports the product or doesn't have a record of your having purchased the product, you're SOL. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]

Regard download products as being yours only for the lifetime of the drive you initially install them on. And they can't be resold or given to anyone else.

#15
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
It's my impression that people generally choose the least expensive option. That would be downloading in this case. As buyers switch to dl, the sale of disc products decreases. This being such a small market to begin with, it wouldn't take much for it to dry up altogether. Then there will be only one option.

That's like saying that LE's would quickly go out of fashion because the regular edition is the "least expensive option." Obviously that market hasn't dried up yet, and that would be doubly true for the physical media market. There's plenty of people that want a tangible disk that they can hold in their hands, like you. I'm sure there's plenty of people that would like a less expensive option. And then there's people that want the choice of both, like me.

I don't think there's a need to get so worked up about this issue. Even if the downloadable option is destined to become the preferred distribution route, I don't see it happening for a long time. Right now, there's too many potential customers that:

1) Don't have broadband.
2) Don't want to pay for a download, especially one that has the limits you've described.
3) Have a physical media fetish, i.e. if they can't hold it in their hands it's not "theirs."

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 01-20-2005).]

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 01-20-2005).]

#16
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
That's like saying that LE's would quickly go out of fashion because the regular edition is the "least expensive option." Obviously that market hasn't dried up yet, and that would be doubly true for the physical media market.
I guess you're talking about LE's for J-games and console games? Different case. Game makers with large sales can afford to gamble on a niche collector market without much risk. 1% of 100,000 sales is still 1000 sales after all.

A small enterprise like an English b-game maker has to cut costs wherever possible. Expenses such as mastering discs, replicating, packaging, shipping and even printing manuals are serious burdens. Downloading might seem like a godsend. But to reap the major dividends, they must eliminate media costs altogether. That's why I'm afraid if download sales are overwhelmingly popular, it could marginalize media products.

quote:
There's plenty of people that want a tangible disk that they can hold in their hands, like you. I'm sure there's plenty of people that would like a less expensive option. And then there's people that want the choice of both, like me.
Trouble is, you don't really know how many plenty are and whether the business can support both segments. Some people thought that enough customers would boycott V-Mate products that GC would have to release a higher-cost standalone version. Doesn't look like that is going to happen.

quote:
I don't think there's a need to get so worked up about this issue. Even if the downloadable option is destined to become the preferred distribution route, I don't see it happening for a long time.
It's not that I'm so worked up about the issue. I can get along fine without b-games, if I have to. It's that I want to make people aware of the hidden costs of download products. They may look tempting at first glance, but once they are a fait accompli, we may never see offline products again.

quote:
Right now, there's too many potential customers that ...[reasons people prefer discs]
Well, there is always GC's downloadware-on-disc example. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img] If PP minimizes production costs, they could hand them out like AOL installation CDs. Great new bishoujo game! Free installation! Just insert CD and have your credit card ready! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/eek.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by perigee (edited 01-20-2005).]

#17
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
Well, there is always GC's [b]downloadware-on-disc example. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img] If PP minimizes production costs, they could hand them out like AOL installation CDs. Great new bishoujo game! Free installation! Just insert CD and have your credit card ready! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/eek.gif[/img][/b]

The difference between downloadware (as you put it) and V-mate as it is now is that downloadware should be cheaper. Downloadware shouldn't be any more than $30. I would be fine with your "AOL CD" example if the shipping was free and the cost was less than $30, though it would still be false advertising. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

quote:

Downloading might seem like a godsend. But to reap the major dividends, they must eliminate media costs altogether.

That's true. I hadn't considered that. I guess it would be difficult to lower the price for downloadware if the fixed costs for physical distribution are still being incurred.

Hmm...maybe a choice realistically does have to be made between one or the other. I wonder if the LE/download prospect would also be an either/or scenario.

The best way to handle the issue would be hire a separate publisher, I think. That way fixed costs of distribution/copy are minimized (because the publisher deals with many companies). Of course, I'm not aware of how much that would complicate matters both from a business and a legal standpoint, or if it's even feasible.

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 01-20-2005).]

#19
#20