DVD vs CD

Visual Novel Community Off Topic
#1

This post is a reply to a question SCDawg asked on another thread, but my answer belongs here.

The answer to your question, SCDawg, is yes. The DVD will replace the CD, just as surely as the CD replaced the floppy disk.

Do you remember floppy disks? When games were released in the 1980’s they would release games that required the info to be stored on up tp 20-25 floppies. Then along came MYST on CD-Rom, and all of a sudden, developers realized they could save a ton of money putting out one CD, istead of multiple floppies, and players realized that they could install just one CD, istead of fumbling with multiple floppies.

It’s the same thing with DVDs. Most games for the PC require multiple CDs these days. Why should deveopers and publishers spend the money on pushing out a game on 4-6 CDS when they could put out one DVD? With multi-millions being spent on developing games, the savings from putting out a single disk would be very welcome, and the game publishers are starting to realize this.

[This message has been edited by kmusky (edited 07-23-2004).]

#2

*References to “they” is mostly meant in the generic fashion but also in part directed at the original producers of any game in any genre.

So it takes time to swap discs, so games were on 20 discs instead of two, discs did wear out, CD’s, as far as I am aware, do not, yes they can be scratched but so can DVD’s. The move from floppies to CD’s was a major one, it gave greater storage abilities, etc., but this move is much smaller in comparison and therefore one I am not sure is truly needed.

Personally I never minded the time it took to switch discs, it is/was part of the old charm of those games but maybe I am one of the few that thinks this way. Remember the new is not always better and I am not sure this move from CD to DVD is as huge as the move from floppies to CD was at the time. Also I doubt we will see the savings, remember once upon a time they promised “Cable will never have ads because we pay to bring it into our homes” or so I have been told. Point is, say what they like now, and they might in fact be saving money, but I have a feeling they will find someway to charge the same if not just a tad more, maybe one or two dollars, for the convenience of us having the games on DVD.

Perhaps because of everything you said “Oh it’s better for you, fewer CD’s no changing, therefore surely you would be willing to pay the same amount or perhaps just a tad more?” It might save them money but will it save us money? That is another question to be asked on the issue raised.

Also my main issue was not with the switch itself to DVD’s but using that as a springboard my issue was with the idea that people, and you seem to be one of them that does the first at least, are so willing to blindly accept the new because it is said to be better, perhaps it is slightly better, and yet automatically reject the old, in terms of games more then in terms of how they are presented. Nothing sinister about this but at the same time it is interesting people still believe that changes are great if new, and bad if old.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 07-23-2004).]

#3

I agree that the DVD will eventually replace the CD as a storage medium. The transition will probably even be faster than floppy to CD, since DVD drives are downward compatible with CDs. It’s a never-ending progression. Some day current DVD drives will be made obsolete by double density DVDs, or whatever the next technology happens to be.

The thing that I hope doesn’t happen is for DVD players to replace PCs as gaming platforms. For all their convenience, players can’t match the features available with PC games. High resolution graphics, a hard drive for saves and restores, a high performance CPU and the utility of a mouse/keyboard vs. remote control as an input device make the computer a much better choice for game software,

I’m afraid the widespread availability of DVD players and the extra development cost associated with Windows may lead to more player-compatible releases. Given the tedious nature of play with the Hirameki games, maybe I shouldn’t worry so much.

#4

We don’t know yet about the new games Hirameki is releasing, if you believe their own hype these are the best games they have ever released. They are not that tedious to go through in my opinion, at least Phantom of Inferno was not, but lack of a CG gallery and the inability to play the music without getting the password first is nothing I hope becomes standard for games of the future.

Yes progress is unstoppable that is true, but my three concerns are it will not be better beyond being able to put more on one disc, this is but the first step to moving them to DVD players, which are can be cheaper or equal in price to some computers and perhaps easier to sell people on at times, and lastly that it will not be cheaper.

For some strange reason history seems to show that if something new and better does not cost more a lot of people refuse to believe it is better.

#5
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
They are not that tedious to go through in my opinion
The biggest limitation I've found is the lack of a true fast forward. At least with Amusement Park and Day of Love the only way I managed to endure replays was by letting the game run unattended, turning off the TV and coming back an hour later when it had reached the next decision point. Perhaps there's a better way they can do it. [Hey, you can even get programs to run on a Turing Machine!] Until it's available, however, I consider any mult-ending game tedious on DVD player hardware.
quote:
my three concerns are it will not be better beyond being able to put more on one disc,
This is the obvious consideration when you're comparing two types of storage device.
quote:
this is but the first step to moving them to DVD players, which are can be cheaper or equal in price to some computers and perhaps easier to sell people on at times,
This is the concern we share. So many game features depend on having a fast general purpose CPU (simulation, intelligent decision making, rendering, etc.) I can't see how you could implement something with the complexity of even True Love on a DVD player.
quote:
and lastly that it will not be cheaper.
If it isn't cheaper for the manufacturers, they won't use DVD. If there is a savings and they don't pass it along to the consumer, their competitors will - assuming they exist.
quote:
For some strange reason history seems to show that if something new and better does not cost more a lot of people refuse to believe it is better.
If that were true, PC prices would follow an upward spiral instead of a downward one.

#6
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
If it isn't cheaper for the manufacturers, they won't use DVD. If there is a savings and they don't pass it along to the consumer, their competitors will - assuming they exist.

I don't know perhaps it will happen, yet I have heard that theory applied to gas stations too, if you place two near each other one will give you a slight discount in order to gain the edge.

Never seems to work that way though, even two or three cents cheaper would help one station get more volume then another but it is amazing how many times you can stand on a street corner and see 1.79 there and oh a 1.79 there as well, so it might not happen with these games, why sell for cheaper if your competitor has people buying at the more expensive price?

quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
If that were true, PC prices would follow an upward spiral instead of a downward one.

Computers might be the general expection to this, they are going down in price to a point but they are also not 'new' yes they update them, but let's face it compared to say even the early 1980's the concept of a home computer is not all that uncommon even amongst those that cannot afford one, the idea is well known, so while they might be improving computers they are not new. In fact people are so spoiled they expect the latest computer to be out every few years at great prices based on the fact that has happened, which might make this the exception.

On the other hand games on DVD can be seen as both an improvement and new because those games that have been on DVD have had drawbacks, as you mentioned no fast-forwarding though some CD games still have that trouble. Also most games are not on DVD as we know, so if these "new" ones run where you can save on the computer well that is an advantage and both marks a new way to game and an improvement on a little used way to game.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 07-23-2004).]

#7

Sorry, are we talking about DVD players, or DVD drives?

#8

Both, because in theory and in practice some DVD games will and do run on both, but thus far at least you gain no advantage from the DVD drive since you still cannot save your game at the point you desire and must play to a pre-arranged saved point, i.e. password point.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 07-23-2004).]

#9

Of course, this may be a moot point if something else comes along coughdownloadingCough.

#10

Well if you mean pirating yes, but considering the mass move against that on this site I am not sure any of us are counting that in the equation.

#11

No, I wasn’t talking about piracy. I hate Piracy as much as anyone on this board. I am talking about legal paypal or credit card downloads. Eidos recently made one of their games available as a download, and plenty of smaller, independant game developers are using downloads to get their product out there, without the struggle of getting a publisher interested.

I mean, why bother with a CD or DVD when you can dispose of physical media altogether?

#12

Because, at the moment digital media is still at an extremely high risk for piracy. Right now, the one of the only preventative measures I can think of is evil Microsoft’s DRM for the Windows Media Player. Digital media at the moment just doesn’t have the security protection it needs to really minimized piracy. Because one person can download it legally, then in turn, post it on a website for free download.

DVD’s have an encoding to help prevent copying. But while some digital media has that, it can very easily be cracked.

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精神 の 神

[This message has been edited by Seishin (edited 07-23-2004).]

#13

There is also something to be said for having a physical copy of something in case something happens to your harddrive, you get a new computer, or you simply want to remove the game for a while but want to play it again some day in the future.

If you must pay to download it, does that mean each time you download it you have to pay, even if there are harddrive problems, or you get a new computer? That does not sound like an ideal way to have games.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 07-23-2004).]

#14

Also keep in mind how long it would take you to download those games. It would take quite a while for recent games, and be bad for your bandwidth.

For games, the DVD will replace it in some years, when they become cheap enough, probably, but the CD will still exist for smaller games and applications, and especially for music.

#15

Bandwidth won’t be much of a problem for more than a few years. Very shortly now we are going to start seeing uberbroadband. Verizon has already started this, with their plan to start installing FTTP.

#16

Actually I thought CDs were already on their way out in the computer world. We’ve replaced all defective cd drives with DVD-roms for a while now at work. I figure in a couple of years CD games will go the way of the dodo and will only exist in fairy tales and cd players

#17

Hmmm… I think that there are still a couple of advantages that CD’s have over DVD’s–until they overcome those hurdles, CD’s won’t be entirely phased out. It’ll probably be a dual existance (after all, they both run in a computer’s DVD drive)… kind of like you can still get casette tapes (at least you could the last time I was in a music store…) even though CD’s are obviously better.

#18
quote:
Originally posted by Wolfson:
Hmmm... I think that there are still a couple of advantages that CD's have over DVD's--until they overcome those hurdles, CD's won't be entirely phased out. It'll probably be a dual existance (after all, they both run in a computer's DVD drive)... kind of like you can still get casette tapes (at least you could the last time I was in a music store...) even though CD's are obviously better.

Not for much longer. Cassettes continue to fall off terrifically. Really, once people's cars stop having cassette decks in them, it's over. Blank cassette tapes (and thus recorders) will continue to be around for awhile after that but audiotape is dying rapidly.

#19
quote:
Originally posted by wanfu2k1:
Actually I thought CDs were already on their way out in the computer world. We've replaced all defective cd drives with DVD-roms for a while now at work. I figure in a couple of years CD games will go the way of the dodo and will only exist in fairy tales and cd players [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

Great, then along with tales of something called a floppy drive and 5 1/4 inch discs we can start to tell the tale of games on CD's, those things that only have music on them, talk about feeling old when that day comes, more seriously though eventually at least with gaming they might be doomed, there is the Cassette Tape that Nandemonai mentioned but also perhaps a better example of something near the very end of it's days are VHS tapes since they are now even advertising a DVD burner for recording shows off television.

Look in stores and see how few VHS movies there are these days. Recently while in a store looking at some anime, another customer asked if they had some movies on VHS because he only found it on DVD, they pointed to a wall that was smaller then their new releases display and said if it is not there they likely don't have it anymore on VHS. Geez I remember part of the Beta-VHS war.

#20

That’s not the way it is over here. We still get plenty of VHS. Honestly, DVD movies are a bit too expensive over here compared with buying them on VHS.

CDs will always exist, even if it’s just for the music industry. It has enough place for singles, and even most full albums.

As long as PCs can’t boot with every CD/DVD drive in existance by default, floppy drives will still be standard equipment and exist. Also, it’s still great for little files.