Eroge & the Future of Gaming

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#1

I am currently starting this thread during a lack of time, so, as such, I will not be ablt put as much content and opinion as I originally wished to do so. However, I will provide some links to illustrate the thoughts in my head.

However, noting that I am still doing my research on the subject, and I’m still pretty much young when it comes to games journalism (there are some far more advanced then I am), I feel like taking the time to look at this:

Before I begin, I would like to ask how many people here have played visual novels on the PS2. And, for those who are really vintage, is there anyone here, who has played eroge PC-FX.

Moving on, the subject of this thread first came to my mind during the writing of this article on a pro-Wii website:

http://thewiikly.zogdog.com/article.php?article=51&ed=5&p=1

http://www.insertcredit.com/archives/001337.html

While it is, admittedly, pro-Wii, it does acknowledge that the advent of the Playstation meant the end of cartridge-based games, and, to a slight extent, the end of simpler, small budget games. Although I think this personal claim is unwarranted, I do feel that, to some extent, the emphasis on games with bigger budgets, and with, a greater emphasis on gameplay and visuals meant the demise and lack of interest in the adventure game genre in the West, though I can definitely say that the rise of 3D-graphic games came about at the same time.

Anyway, I mentioned that link, because, as I rememebred that earlier incident, various things have happened recently that make me wonder:

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601080&sid=aTVZj2sgVtvk&refer=asia

http://www.insertcredit.com/archives/001731.html

http://kotaku.com/gaming/notag/akihabara-store-uses-sex-games-to-sell-vista-243723.php

http://kotaku.com/gaming/top/vista-does-dirty-japanese-game-display-232329.php

http://kotaku.com/gaming/fate-tiger-colosseum/

http://flamewaradvance.blogspot.com/2007/02/and-so-it-begins.html

http://kotaku.com/gaming/notag/clip-why-card-games-are-popular-in-japan-254998.php

Alright, so the Vista bits were mostly humourous, and that one DS game was a doujin game, but there were a few bits that got me interested. After all, the fact that SNK produced a game, which isn’t really ero-ero by any means, but was along its line, could mean an eventual change in the future SNK (mind you, I’m saying this as one big KOF fan, but any prospect of an SNK eroge is… intriguing) The fact that Capcom is doing a fate game means that eroge, or rather, doujin visual novels, are starting to become a part of the mainstream. And aside from that, the market, if anything, seems to be mroe oriented towards innovation and interactivity then just the big budget, as indicated by the losses the PS3 made to the Wii. I also added that one bit about card games as I have played Sangokushi Taisen (there’s a few machines at Schaumburg, Illinois), and aside from representing a possible revival in arcades, it only goes to show that there is a greater emphasis on ‘tactile-type’ interactivity.

I don’t know how this will all add up in the future, and I have more research to do in this department, but I suspect that this may all affect the future of visual novels as a whole. It could mean its slow demise (the PS2 was a medium for the genre, and an emphasis on interactivity, which is not something you can get much out of a visual novel), or, with the advent of Vista and the Wii, it could mean a completely new generation of eroge, and mayve even a revival and expansion.

EDIT: After looking at one of Benoit’s pieces of news, I am starting to wonder if this level of innovation, if succesfulyl carried off into the eroge genre, may awaken an interest outside of Japan. Who knows ? I may psot mroe on this peice fo enws if it is, indeed, what it suggests itself to be.

#2

In Japan, eroge companies seems to come and go in hordes.

You’ll get one company that releases a title unlike anything else in terms of production value and quality, yet won’t make enough back to succeed, thus causing the company to vanish as soon as it appears. Then you’ll get another company that releases substandard garbage for years until it finally closes shop for unknown reasons, since making losing or making profit didn’t seem to impact them much over the years.

Then there’s the unpredictable otaku market. One year anything twincest will never fail, then the next year even top quality twincest of the finest order will be ignored, because it’s time for the neko mimi to shine. Fortunately tentacles never go out of fashion, but sometimes to avoid being to “cookie cutter” a company will release weird tentacle stuff that just doesn’t make much sense, killing interest in it for awhile.

Thankfully, for every two eroge companies that die, six spawn in its place: it’s like a terrible, beautiful Hydra that just won’t quit.

Go eroge!

#3

I don’t own a PS2, or a PC-FX.

What does Vista have to do with this? So a Akihabara shop uses eroge to sell Vista… Doesn’t mean anything for the medium itself.

#4

I think you need to work a bit on your info:

-“Eroge” means “Erotic Game”, it is ALWAYS 18+, not the same as visual novels, and consoles don’t allow them.

-Fate is NOT a Doujin game, it’s a commercial release. Also, the game you are talking about is NOT Doujin. Douhinshi is self-published work, not commercial work. You seem to be confusing Fate with Tsukihime. TYPE-MOON became a commercial company after the success of Tsukihime. Thus Fate is commercial.

-You need to know the difference from Eroge and Visual novels. Like I said before, non-18+ games are NOT EROGE AT ALL. don’t just randomly use terms when you have no idea what the mean.

-The DS game was an have-fun-with-touch-screen experiment. And it was NOT an eroge.

-the Capcom game is not an ADV. Not an Eroge. Not a Doujin.

PLEASE do more research before typing this out.

[ 05-15-2007, 01:52 PM: Message edited by: Shade453 ]

#5

Well… I was being ‘flippant’, and it was meant to be a humurous take on the innovation bit. Of course, running multiple programmes at a time means nothing… but something tells me that there’s some unique advantage in Vista. If not, then it was for intended humour.

Now for Shade’s comments:

Yes, I know consoles don’t allow them (except for the PC-FX, which was ancient history), but there are eroge which have been adapted into non-h versions on the PS2 and other consoles. This transition should be acknowledged, esp. since a game originally released for the PS2, ToHeart2, was released for an eroge version on the PC afterwards.

I didn’t say Fate was a doujin game. Alright, so I admit I made a slight syntax error, and forgot to emphasize that FATE was TYPE-MOON’s first commercial release, but the emphasis on that line was that the game still has its impact. Like Tsukihime befoe it, which was a doujin game, and one that spawned an anime, a series of fighting games, a manga, and various other merchandise.

Yes, I know the difference. If I didn’t differentiate them, I apologise, though I like to think as eroge being part of visual novels, not the other way round. And the h-bits should distinguish one from the other too much.

Well, yes, the SNK game was 15+ and not an eroge, btut here was another DS doujin game that was an eroge which was in one of the links. Maybe it wasn’t an eroge, btu that oens creenshot made it seem so. And I repeat, it wasn’t the SNk agme I wasn’t talking about (though I am very welcome to the prospect of an SNK eroge)

Not a doujin, but based off an eroge.

~

On another side-note, yes, I know Cpacom wouldn’t give a damn about FS/N if it didn’t make money, but it’s like saying KyoAni wouldn’t give a damn if Air/Kanon didn’t make money.

Yes, I know eroge is big business, but it’s not easy to branch out and move a merchandise elsewhere. And the fact that it succeeds sometimes shows that there may be some future for it.

~

I already admitted that I haven’t done enoughr esearch into the field, and that I made this entry udedr time constraints. If the thread has offended you, I apologise, but I was just trying to make a point.

#6

It may not quit, but I seriously wonder if there can be anything that can effectively challenge the existence of eroge.

Tentacles don’t die out ebcause it seems to be (wierldy) an old Japanese ‘thing’:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Dream_of_the_Fisherman%27s_Wife

Funny you mentioned Hydra…

Maybe you’re right, maybe it just won’t die out, though I do wish that it’d expand beyond its current limits. And the point of this thread, if anything, was to see the possible impact of the next generation of gaming on eroge.

Amen !

#7

Well to be honest, eroge (and b-games in general) have stagnated in terms of presentation. It seems that blinking eyes and mouths that move to spoken words are still a novelty when they should be a standard.

In my opinion - while I understand that the eroge market is not a huge cash maker – how titles look in their intro or demo movies (moving paper dolls, flashy bling-bling, dynamic backgrounds and foregrounds) should be how ALL eroge games should look.

I’m not saying the eroge should be “Macromedia” productions, but they should make titles that take elements from them. Sakura Taisen was a major hit because of the LIPS system – too bad that part of the game was overlooked while other aspects of it were pirated.

Of course I’ve seen titles like Da Capo 2 do everything I mentioned above, but as said before - that’s an exception to the rule… not to mention Da Capo 2 was a MAJOR production of $$$…

Meh… that’s just me. After all, I’m the crazy twincest guy, so maybe I’m just a weirdo. :wink:

#8

Eh, most games nowadays use the standard ADV system, maybe with one or two bells or whistles to attract attention.

Nothing special, and I’m not complaining if that’s all a game has. Some companies are pretty hard on money, and I’m happy so long as they can deliver on story and art.

One game that does a lot more with the standard form is AYAKASHI, which is really impressive for what it is and when it came out. Especially for a battle-type story, what they did with the presentation makes everything that much enjoyable.

Go check it out, Apricot has the first two chapters out as demos. :stuck_out_tongue:

Then you have things like Muv-Luv Alternative, which took the usual things and streamlined it to make the whole thing seem more cinematic in presentation. The game isn’t really for everyone, but it’s a fair bet if you’re looking for flashy things.

On the top end, there’s games like Minori’s uberproject ef -a fairy tale of the two-. The production values are just absurdly high, and it shows. Unfortunately, there’s a tradeoff in game length, but they still have the second half to put out. With any luck, it’ll pay off. :>

And then there’s School Days and Summer Days, which I’m sure everyone has already heard of.

…and now I’ve chimed in. Back to the abyss from whence I came…

[ 05-17-2007, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: Dark Lord Zenigame ]

#9

Its funny that you mention the PC-FX, every time I visit Den Den Town, I come very close to buying one as all the games are in the 500-1000yen range. (Except for a few greatly wanted rarities like Zeroigar).

The Sega Saturn also had games with nudity in its early days, in the later years Sega cracked down on them though.

The FM-Towns Marty (console version of FM-Towns Computer System) is easily the king of console erogames. I’d love one of these things but the prices are quite steep.

I am a PC-Engine (NEC’s first console) collector and Hudson/NEC did allow erogames on the system. Though the most popular ones like Hi-leg Fantasy were unlicensed and came with a special bootleg System Card needed to run them.

As for the future of erogames, I think one serious problem is a lack of originality. With so many games being made, all most everything has been covered. Plus most developers aren’t brave enough to try something totally unique since companies do come and go very quickly and they want something to catch the average erogame consumer.

Games being ported to PS2 are still selling quite well I’d say. Everytime Alchemist ports something over its usually sold out for about two weeks on average. I’m guessing the print runs are kept low at first to save on publishing costs.

Finally, if you ever get the chance, everyone should play the PC-Engine game, “Private Eye Dol.” (No ero here, but any adventure game fan would love it.)

#10

I think sex in games is developing just fine in the western hemisphere, and it’s kept largely under the radar, free of harassment from bible-thumpers, which is just the way they like it. www.redlightcenter.com is a subscription MMORPG site with 3d environments and avatars modeled after the Amsterdam Red Light District and 250,000 subscribers, is an example of the western approach to sex in gaming.

[ 05-18-2007, 07:15 PM: Message edited by: bokmeow ]

#11

Why Amsterdam’s? Brussels’ red light district is the biggest.

#12

Maybe so, but Amsterdam has that almost mythical image and status of being the most liberal city in the entire solar system. Pot, legal prostitution, tattoo parlors, etc.

#13

Eh, the whole Netherlands is like that.

#14