Ah… I see… You haven’t fallen to the Dark Side yet. Well my old apprentice has failed me, so I’m currently looking for another. 
[ 06-12-2006, 06:52 AM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
Heh! Thanks again, but look above: with my current backlog, I can’t really appreciate more suggestions - regardless how irresistible they may be!
Apparently you do 
. But I haven’t given up! I’ll turn you to the dark side someday! Muwahahah!
Hmm. Yet wasn’t it also some of Hitler’s officers who tried to assasinate him in the so-caleld July 20 plot?
You know, I don’t quite understand why you’re so set on your opinion that “Takame can’t change”. just because he doesn’t show much doubt about his current assignament in the beginning? The capture of the sisters might well be the very event that makes him begin to question his situation, even if we don’t see that immediately. As I seee it, Takame is human and therefore not unchangeable, as you seem to think he is. To quote Benedick from Shakespeare’s “Much ado about nothing”, “man is a giddy thing, and this is my conclusion” . As long as Takame’s given time to think of, rethink and eventually decide to change his current situation and possibly in the progres save the sisters, it’s not OOC IMHO. Now, if this change were to happen overnight; that’d be another matter - that’d clearly be OOC…
Copy? That’s what you think? Hmm. He may well try as I see it - but it’s impossible to do so perfectly in the end as all humans are different from one another . in a sense, that’s what the game is about - his father’s going to be away for one month and without his father’s shadow hanging over his head, can he change for the better? We shall see…
[ 06-12-2006, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Spectator Beholder ]
No, no, don’t stop! It’s encouraged on this board! 
- makes one more step towards the bright side in order to be safe again *
Hmmm… funny that you of all people bring this up. I thought you hate GTS-heroes like them…
Because there is too much for him to lose and nothing for him to gain from changing!
Hmmm… .it looks like there is an aspiring teacher who apparently underestimates the power of forceful education - also known as Pavlov-style conditioning!
We already know that there is a way, and I am still waiting for Nagrakhan answering my questions regarding the consistency of the story at that point - and I also hope that his reply will simply remain on that abstract level and not go into too much details, so you wouldn’t have to fear spoilers when you will read it.
Boo! Dark is more fun! ;p.
GTS? Sorry, has been up all night writting and finailly sending that wretched final (sorta) assignament for the university’s last course this term, so my mind’s sort of a dull so I don’t quite get what you’re trying to point out here…
Expect from love & friendship, etc… He doesn’t seem very happy with what he has now to me, at least, so what has he really to lose? ^_-.
Those are powerful tools, I admit, but not almighty nor infailable .
Well then, let’ see what Nagrakhan, the so far only on the PP boards (to the best of my knowledge, at least) to actually have played Nukenin will have to say… Meanwhile, I’ll go off get some…zzzzzzzzz.
Hmmm… how can I put this without spoilers… :eek:
You’re right that Takame has a lot to lose if he betrays his father… but in the sense of “power” as it applies to rulership and personal gain. On the other hand, sometimes people will discover something that makes them not care about what they can gain, but rather, what they will lose if they gain it. Yes, true loyalty is hard to break… but it can be broken when the reason for that loyalty is betrayed or proven to be false.
In Nukenin, Takame is also affected by the sisters. He already has minor seeds of doubt in him - after all, he doesn’t enjoy doing the ruthless things his father orders him to do: he does it because it’s his duties. However, Takame isn’t 100% loyal to his dad just out of duty, but rather respect for him. Yes… daddy is a murderous psychopath and all… but some sons find peace in knowing their father is pleased with them, no matter how twisted dad is.
Take Shinji from Evangelion. Dad is a dick. Dad wants his son to fight in battles that he may not come back from. Dad doesn’t give a rat’s ass if Shinji dies. Shinji knows this. But when his father says, “Good work” it makes Shinji think everything is worth it for that one little statement.
Granted, Takame has a totally different psyche and upbringing than Shinji, but that “dad pleasing” issue is there. Now what if it suddenly went away? Even Shinji could have been made to totally hate his father violently (Rei being a primary factor)… it just didn’t happen in the story. Pleasing someone all the time is a delicate thing when the giver and the receiver of this are mutually dangerous and insane.
Does that make sense? 
[ 06-13-2006, 04:46 AM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
You never tried to keep the balance!
That thrill when you stand with one foot on one peak and with the other foot on another! Feeling how one starts to crumble as soon as you put more than 60% of your weight on that foot, so having to go to the other side and avoiding there the same mistake! Knowing that if either peak really crumbles, the ground beneath you will turn into an avalanche of rubble… 
That’s why I didn’t use GTS on its own, but the way I used it in the mail just days before: GTS-hero = GoodyTwoShoe-hero!
Hmmm… I think I see.
But let’s go straight to the point without dwelling to much in details:
The way how this development has been portrayed in the story: did you feel this development was entirely OOC for Takame?
… or was it actually believable?
… or even as excellent as Spec wants me to believe it could be? A real psychic drama in which he gradually releases himself from the chains that his upbringing put on him?
Because in the latter case, I may reconsider, even though psychic dramas aren’t as high in my preference list as mysteries.
But still, one of my oldest and still favored titles also belongs in that category: Dokusen! So I may indeed give Nukenin a new chance to convince me in this special case - if it is written in a believable above-average style!
As far as I recall, it was Rei who slapped Shinji for just saying that he doesn’t trust his father completely…
If we forget about the Rei at the end of “End of Evangelion”, I never regarded Rei as an element that would contribute to defying Gendou’s scenario!
[ 06-13-2006, 09:16 AM: Message edited by: Unicorn ]
Welcome aboard, …fellow Sith Lords ? Just remember the first rule: If You Fail , The Dark Side Will Devour You Alive :roll: .
I wouldn’t say out of character… but a “leap of character” would better. The story is constructed so that whatever available choices the player makes for the ultimate end, it is rewarded or punished accordingly with sufficent results.
Something else that isn’t being mentioned, is that Takame isn’t the only powerful character who serves his father. There’s also Karura, Aoi, and Kirito. Granted these individuals have their own degrees of loyalty, but their own opinions and actions influences the story as much as the sisters.
However, don’t think Takame is a saint. Just because its possible for him to not be as evil as his father, doesn’t mean he can’t be evil. As we agreed earlier, evil comes in many different levels and degrees: some are considered more “acceptable” than others. Takame doesn’t transform from the deadly righthand of a ruthless ninja lord who commits murder on a weekly basis, into Ghandi or anything.
You’re right of course. I was using it as an example. Rei was ULTRA loyal to Shinji’s father. However, if she wasn’t and she opposed him, it would not have been out of character for Shinji to be standing at her side (and Asuka would have probably opposed them out of principle and her talent of being a world-class bitch). On the otherhand, its arguable to say that Rei’s utter loyalty was a factor that kept Shinji loyal to his dad.
Heh… Evangelion is confusing as it is. Adding “what if’s” might make us go insane.
[quote]
Originally posted by Nargrakhan:
[b]Takame doesn’t transform from the deadly righthand of a ruthless ninja lord who commits murder on a weekly basis, into Ghandi or anything.
Yes.
This topic has kinda made me wonder something though… It appears you like MinDeaD BlooD as much as I do, so I gotta ask:
You didn’t think it was out of character for Shizuru to follow some of the endings in that series? I mean (trying to avoid spoilers of course), they vary so wildly between what he becomes - even more so if you count the “official” ending in the Mana & Mayu Transfusion expansion (which I have to admit, was really badass all things considered) or the non-twincest endings for the sisters.
[ 06-14-2006, 04:25 AM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
:o :o :o :o :o
I fear, I have hardly scratched the surface of MinDeaD Blood yet!
First I had to put it on my backlog because someone else almost begged me on his knees to hold back until he has that game too. Because he was the one who made me aware of that game, I felt obliged to do so.
… and when I finally started to play the game a year ago, I only found so far the typical death bad-endings and Shizuru’s harem-ending.
As a matter of fact, I have yet to find my first “other” beginning of the game… :o :o :o
So I think I have no clue about those other endings you are talking about. And that goes twice for the extra-scenarios in Mayu to Mana no Tsuketsubako because that one lies idle since I bought it. I want to finish the main game first…
However, MinDeaD Blood has other qualities that would make me forgive character-violations and other inconsistencies as far as they don’t entirely ridicule the scenario:
[list][]a bunch of mysteries that resists being solved in the first tries - and some of them even conceal their very existence in the first playthroughs! For example if I first concentrate just on finding a way to take over all areas of the island i order to stay alive, then I very likely will miss most hints that wait at “home” to be discovered…[/][*]Mayu !!! }8)~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~[/][]Mana 8))[/][]… and of course both together!!! ^__________^[/*][/list]
EDT: Removed own fanfic because it made the post lengthy and the thread messy.
[ 06-16-2006, 11:37 AM: Message edited by: Unicorn ]
Stealing back my hijacked thread. I’ll try to post it tommorrow or the day after.
It only won a 5 of 10 (average), so its really not all that high, but I did find it amusing. The voice actors are really what won me over, but I still think there’s potential for the series if they put more thought and energy into a .fuck2 (if there will even be one).
[ 06-18-2006, 10:02 AM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
Ah, I’ve played the demo if that one, and so has Unicorn. It’s pretty intriguing as such; we’ve enver as far as I know seen a “Resident Evil”-sort of bishoujo game. Hmm, you have a point in what you say in your review, however: how hard it it to break break out of a private Japanese academy? Speed came up with an interesting idea, indeed, but they might have choosen the wrong setting for it…
[ 06-18-2006, 10:20 AM: Message edited by: Spectator Beholder ]
I’ve read the Getchu Page too and… are you sure that the diseased(?) guys are truly undead :o … ).
And in fact you “have no intention of ever trading off” it …
As I understand it, in Resident Evil, people are infected by a virus that makes them beocme zombie-like. Not truly zombies in the real meaning of the word (undead brain-eater), I suppose, but close enough. Same thing in Kansen…
What can I say? I like Sakuya and Ren.
[ 06-18-2006, 06:06 PM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
That was exactly the thing that I hated most about episode 1… T____T;;;;
[ 06-19-2006, 08:24 AM: Message edited by: Unicorn ]