G-collections news *Jaw Drops*

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#21
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Perhaps [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]. But, as I told Unicorn in an e-mail to him, I've begun to suspect that there might be very few, or perhaps no true SIMs, because that most SIMs I've seen/heard off seems to contain at least a few adventure elements, making it kind of hard to say whenever we should think of it as a SIM, a SIM/ADV or an ADV with a few SIM elements.

[This message has been edited by Spectator Beholder (edited 12-18-2002).]

So what you're saying is that, if you define a pure SIM to have *no* ADV elements *at all*, then there are none.

Doesn't that simply mean that definition of SIM is a useless definition? A classification has no inherent meaning or value if it does not discriminate. The purpose of a classification is to be able to split up some group of things nicely into subgroups, so that you can tell them apart.

Remember when Kumiko started that gigantic many-pages-long thread where he insisted that Minoru was a hopeless romantic, and it ultimately boiled down to a semantic debate? Can we, um, avoid that here?

[This message has been edited by Nandemonai (edited 12-18-2002).]

#22
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
You need to be more confusing! Come on, even I can do better than that. Define definition.

I don't think, he wanted to confuse us. If that would have been the case, he surely would have done it better. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

Well, I think I made the following mistake: I found a classical element of ADVs (to be more specific: puzzles) in the SIM and because of that, I thought I had to link that game also to the ADV-category.

However, what olf said about how the actions of the player have an impact on the story, makes perfectly sense to me.
I think, I will simply use these criteria and be more careful in future posts.

[This message has been edited by Unicorn (edited 12-19-2002).]

#23
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
(...)
Remember when Kumiko started that gigantic many-pages-long thread where he insisted that Minoru was a hopeless romantic, and it ultimately boiled down to a semantic debate?
Well, ultimately, any discussion between people of different cultures (and primary languages [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]) goes down to a semantic debate, because one can only argue with another when one is sure both sides use the same words with the same meaning. When I studied about the art of (philosophical) debating, I was taught to always define the words I was using and to explain the connotations I wanted to use. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

#24

HMm, first, I think I’m going to skip the quote sthis time,a nd try to be short: I agree with what everyone says that if a SIM has no ADV or RPG elements, thne I consider it to be a true SIM. The problem is rather, that I may have a different view on what I consider as “ADV elements” than others here. Olf, and juding from the demo…

Yes, it looks much like a true SIM, but I’ve only got the demo to rely on, so I can’t say for sure. But so tell me, couldn’t the events at the end of the week be considered as an ADV element? Sure, it’s just a choice that you can make that decides where you are going to “rent out” the girl of your choices, but still… From what I could see in the demo, that action had little or no effect whatsoever on the girl or the meters, so perhaps…

Well, I myself might count it as an ADV-event, if yet a very weak one. If someone where to ask me what I consider a true SIM, it might be Maid’s Story, since that one just relied on the meters, you couldn’t go anywhere except for inside the house, you couldn’t go and buy stuff whenever you wanted to do so, etc… so in my opinion, Maid’s Story is one of the “purest” SIMs I’ve seen. But I’m not saying that it is the best one

#25
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
Well, ultimately, any discussion between people of different cultures (and primary languages [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]) goes down to a semantic debate, because one can only argue with another when one is sure both sides use the same words with the same meaning. When I studied about the art of (philosophical) debating, I was taught to always define the words I was using and to explain the connotations I wanted to use. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

Hmm, sometimes you don't even need the different cultures or primary languages to have some differences. So far, I've had to explain the difference between "gouty" and "gawdy" and the proper use of the term "exonerate" to a co-worker who's native language is English.

Okay, trying to follow the conversation... So in that case, do you consider Graduation a "true SIM" or not?

#26
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
(...)
Yes, it looks much like a true SIM, but I've only got the demo to rely on, so I can't say for sure. But so tell me, couldn't the events at the end of the week be considered as an ADV element? Sure, it's just a choice that you can make that decides where you are going to "rent out" the girl of your choices, but still... From what I could see in the demo, that action had little or no effect whatsoever on the girl or the meters, so perhaps...

Well, I myself might count it as an ADV-event, if yet a very weak one.(...)

You count *that* as an ADV event?!?!?!
So, according to you, everything that has no effect on the girls' stats in a SIM is an ADV event?!?!?!?!
Methinks your definition of an ADV event is too broad...

Besides, in Darcrows, you're training the girls for the very reason to rent them... and you consider that part to be an ADV element?! I mean, it's like saying that in Tokimemo, at the end of the week you can date a girl and since it doesn't have any consequence on your stats that dating is an ADV event...

[This message has been edited by olf_le_fol (edited 12-19-2002).]

#27
quote:
Originally posted by ekylo:
(...)
Okay, trying to follow the conversation... So in that case, do you consider Graduation a "true SIM" or not?
Errr, I do... when I wrote "(...) if you consider Tokimemo (all), Pia (all), Comipa, Mitsumete Knight, PM3, Sotsugyo (I and II)..." it was because I consider all of them as pure SIMs...
#28
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
Errr, I do... when I wrote "(...) if you consider Tokimemo (all), Pia (all), Comipa, Mitsumete Knight, PM3, Sotsugyo (I and II)..." it was because I consider all of them as pure SIMs...

Sorry, I missed that. I sort of got lost in the topic for awhile and I tend to skip stuff when I do.

[This message has been edited by ekylo (edited 12-19-2002).]

#29
quote:
Originally posted by Unicorn:
I don't think, he wanted to confuse us. If that would have been the case, he surely would have done it better. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]

Well, I think I made the following mistake: I found a classical element of ADVs (to be more specific: puzzles) in the SIM and because of that, I thought I had to link that game also to the ADV-category.

However, what olf said about how the actions of the player have an impact on the story, makes perfectly sense to me.
I think, I will simply use these criteria and be more careful in future posts.

[This message has been edited by Unicorn (edited 12-19-2002).]

Yes, I personally think Olf's definition is a good one. Admittedly I am not familiar with very many Bishoujo games, and so I am not in a position to evaluate whether or not there are many holes in his definition; but it seems pretty waterproof to me.

#30
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
So, according to you, everything that has no effect on the girls' stats in a SIM is an ADV event?!?!?!?!
Methinks your definition of an ADV event is too broad...

Besides, in Darcrows, you're training the girls for the very reason to rent them... and you consider that part to be an ADV element?! I mean, it's like saying that in Tokimemo, at the end of the week you can date a girl and since it doesn't have any consequence on your stats that dating is an ADV event...

›ep, my definition might be too broad... but then, agian, I'm a weaird one [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img]. Still, since it seems like that action has no real impact on the direction of the story, I might change my mind [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img].

#31
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
Yes, I personally think Olf's definition is a good one. Admittedly I am not familiar with very many Bishoujo games, and so I am not in a position to evaluate whether or not there are many holes in his definition; but it seems pretty waterproof to me.
Well, I'm waiting for people more familiar than me in this area to post their definitions... Come one, people, there are a lot of you more knowledgeable than me, so post! ^_-
#32
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
Well, I'm waiting for people more familiar than me in this area to post their definitions... Come one, people, there are a lot of you more knowledgeable than me, so post! ^_-

I don't really have anything to add to this discussion, but I can't very well keep quiet after you've put it that way. So, um, the answer to your question is Bob.

#33
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
I don't really have anything to add to this discussion, but I can't very well keep quiet after you've put it that way. So, um, the answer to your question is Bob.

That's funny, I could've sworn it was twenty-four.

#34
quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
That's funny, I could've sworn it was twenty-four.

Eh? You mean it wasn't the Treaty of Berlin? No wonder I kept flunking those tests...

#35

Maybe i didnt see it here but was there a link or any info for “Tsuki”?

#36
quote:
Originally posted by Gambit:
Maybe i didnt see it here but was there a link or any info for "Tsuki"?

Go here:

http://www.zyx-game.co.jp/newsoft/tuki/index.html

#37