Im curious about that game you mentioned Narg would you mind explaining why it is contraband now and is that pic from it? what made Pigeon blood hardcore to you mirage? also, I know but usually when I go to Gurochan I see manga/doujins or stuff made with a tablet now I’m sad T_T .
Hey, little girls need love too…
You want really to see why Pigeon Blood is so Hardcore? seriously? No because i can post one or two CG of it… But i don’t think that everyone could bear it ^^;
Pigeon Blood is just THE Harcore Sm/Slave Game pushed really very very far to the Hardcore SM… And with it’s dark gothic design, everything seems stronger than usual.
For the “little girl”… I really don’t find that hardcore (Even if Loli disgust me)… Pigeon Blood was really more Hardcore
The girl was listed as 8 years old in the manual. That’s a no-no now. It also has the abuse of said 8 year old girl, for the sole reason that doing so makes the “protagonist” feel good. There’s no positive justification… the guy was just an ultimate asshole with ultimate power.
Pigeon Blood is good, but I never saw it as hardcore.
While pain is inflicted in Pigeon Blood, no one fractures limbs (then reset them because its even more painful) or causes permanent maiming. It also has an ending which allows redemption. Old Touchy titles (like the two I mentioned), had limbs shattered with hammers, baseball bats shoved in a woman’s ass/vigina, fist beatings until they lost consciousness, sex so brutal it kills a girl (breaking through her womb and causing internal bleeding), and ZERO redemption. You took the role of a man, who was absolutely heartless and immoral… things of these sort. Pigeon Blood doesn’t break past the barriers of pure evil. Which is why I don’t see it as hardcore.
Furthermore, as debased as the Mayonaka series is, I’ve seen far worst. It’s fairly middle ground, as they’re devoid of TRUE guro, which is where I start to define [color=red]HARDCORE[/color] as far S&M goes: beyond the “safe words” and moral rational of human sympathy. Pain and suffering, for the sheer pleasure of pain and suffering - not to break or convert someone; not for having fun - but simply to to KILL someone because the screaming is as needed as breathing… until there’s pure silence from the final reward of death.
I’m not an innocent man… I’ve lost my innocence a long time ago. :twisted:
Even Guro-chan is not ready for my Brand of Evil. 
That’s gore not hardcore for me.
Gore i don’t care at all and i’m an old Gore movie fan (about 60 Gore Movie DvD + 50/60 Horror Movie DvD)…
The game you’re talking about look like more a Reanimator than a Suspiria… And Reanimator, for me, was fun 
… But Suspiria made me shiver and uneasy… And Pigeon Blood is more close to a Suspiria than a Reanimator…
What make me say that Pigeon Blood is Hardcore is the whole game, the Ambiance, the design… And, i found Old medieval European Torture used by the Inquisitor + sex without killing 10 time more hardcore than what your talking about.(For exemple i never found the Urotsukidoji hardcore and you see girl exploding while having sex in it)
Ah… I see where you’re going. But don’t get me wrong here: I liked Pigeon Blood. :mrgreen:
My only concern with Pigeon Blood, is it never caused me to look back in retrospection that what I did was evil, because it allowed redemption. The protagonist also had an excuse (so to speak) for his immoral actions. Not to spoil anything, but the lead heroine also had a reason to “take” the pain.
In my mind, hardcore is when the title cause you to lose your sense of morality: like the Stanford Prison Experiment or the executioners of the NAZI Death Camps. When the actions you’re inflicting are now FUN because the framework makes it fun. Here you are, given the chance to let a woman go or stop her suffering, and you choose to cause MORE suffering because you’ve been lulled into thinking its alright. She’ll probably like it in the end, and even if she doesn’t, she’s just meat. Yet just hours earlier, you LIKED her character, and wouldn’t have mind finding true love with her. But its so much more entertaining, to just beat her… to MAKE her love you… even if she never wanted to love you in the beginning. Another aspect, is betrayal of trust. To see a woman who truly loved you, broken when she realize you NEVER loved her. Then listen to her screams for someone to save her, when no one will save her… or the person she was hoping to save her, is really the one inflicting the harm… or to give her hope that someone is going to save her, then reveal that it was all an illusion.
Mayonka is not gore (or guro), because it doesn’t depict any internal organs or buckets of blood. HOWEVER, you get the feeling like you’ve played a guro, because of the negative subliminal feeling. It’s like the Psycho movie: there are people who swear the shower stabbing scene had shown the actual knife hitting skin. Never did. Your recollection causes you to add more horror into the event, than there really was (hence why Hitchcock is a genius). Which is something I never got from Pigeon Blood.
I agree, Pigeon Blood has ambience… and the story was beautiful. But it lacks that UGLY feeling… that feeling you’ve wallowed in filth - and secretly know you enjoyed every minute it. 8)
EDIT
Still… I’m not arguing with you, or claiming that you’re wrong. Just pointing out an opinion, like yourself. I suppose we’re still agreeing to disagree.
Besides… I’m so fallen into the Dark Side, I think my reasoning has long been lost.
The horror… oh the horror… but more! I WANT MORE!!! :twisted:
Yeah you did’nt have to point that out
I believe our sensitivity and perception of thing are a little different (since for me the gore is fun… Braindead is one of the more funny movie i ever seen for exemple :P)
Well, the fact that i’n mot in the dark side a lot… The first i look in a galge is the system.The simple Multi-choice system is more and more boring me, it’s why i’m always looking for a map system, a Raising Sim system or similar… Like Lingeries Office, Pigeon Blood, Yami no Koe, Ippai Shimasho, the Yakin Byotou, Izayoi no Hananyome, Beat Angel Escalayer etc… After i look at the charac design and background… But in the end i don’t really car if it’s hardcore, gore or not if i Enjoy the system ^^
so it seems the differences in what makes a dark experience being debated are psychological then. I wouldnt mind a CG mirage but what are supiria and Reanimator ? Arthe two games before that made before 2000 ? I remember in an article I read that the people who made To Heart made a successful dark eroge with " poisonous electromagnetic rape waves" have either of you played that I wonder?
Suspiria and Reanimator are movies.
Suspiria is one of best Horror Film of the Horror Maestro Dario Argento and Reanimator is a Well Know Gore Movies serie.
When I first started looking at erogamescape, EXTRAVAGANZA was ranked 13th on the list of 18+ games :o. It’s fallen a bit since then, but it’s still ranked 34th (by comparison, the MinDead Blood DVD special edition is =56th).
But the reason for this post is to mention Ayyo’s EXTRAVAGANZA review - which praises the game highly (91/100). It’s a very detailed review, although perhaps a bit spoilery in places.
Ah! You found where they were archived on that site. I spend three or four days hunting for them, as a friend asked if I had copies of Ayyo’s old reviews, and I couldn’t produce them. Thanks for that. There’s even his NO SPOILER Gore Screaming Show review, and his NOTHING BUT SPOILERS Gore Screaming Show review (I’m not a spoiler man myself… which is why having Ayyo work with me is a plus for people wanting a spoiler man).
Still… Ayyo enjoys GSS more than he did EXTRA. If you go to ErogameScape, EXTRA beats GSS.
Now that you pointed out the old EXTRA review, I’m going to need to write my own review, because I seriously do not agree EXTRA is 90+ point game. The music isn’t all that good (especially for a Black Cyc, “Death Neko Metal” production) , and I didn’t think of the plot points as creative. But I’ll save it for a future review. Needless to say, I put EXTRA in the 70 to 80 range.
Thanks for posting the links for the GSS review, Narg-san.
Anyway, I have a question regarding Gun-Katana, do I only have access to some of the endings if I play it at easy mode or can I access all the endings through playing that mode? I’m just curious if it’s like MinDead’s easy mode.
I didn’t play Gun-Katana on easy mode. :oops:
[spoiler=]You can’t unlock all the endings, until beating the game once with the FR Slayer ending first. The Escape ending doesn’t count, because its a “bad” one.
I know for certain, that the Alisson Maiden ending, cannot be unlocked until a second play.
Also, I don’t think you can get the Freedom ending, without first seeing the Freedom Dash ending. Not so sure, since I got Dash first…[/spoiler]
I eagerly await your Extravaganza review. I recently saw a Himena chan body pillow on Jlist . This might seem obvious but you do use a katana in Gun-Katana right?
I read his GSS no spoilers review a while ago, but I hadn’t seen the all spoilers one before :o. It’s made me more, rather than less interested in GSS, as there are still some plot points that weren’t fully covered in the review - plus it seems even better than I expected. Puts on list of future purchases.
Regarding the ‘Death Neko Metal’ - isn’t it just a general tag of sorts that Black Cyc uses in their games? The soundtrack for EXTRA seems to have been composed by a different person from MDB/GSS/GK, and similarly the YnK series used a different composer again.
But now that you know how it ends, it really spoils the surprise. GSS is supposed to be a mystery story - if you already know who did it, then there’s really no point to the mystery. Its like knowing the mother of Norman Bates from Psycho, has been dead for years before the movie starts (because he killed her for taking a lover), and Norman mimics her voice as a “split personality” out of guilt insanity (oops? :lol: ). Eroge aren’t like a Final Fantasy or Devil May Cry, where even if you know the plot, there’s still full rendered CG movies to make up for it. And at $90 a pop… well… I want the max experience for my money.
In any case, the MAJOR appeal to GSS is that many plot points don’t make sense, and then when you realize why after seeing the true ending, you get this massive “holy shit” feeling. Now you’ll miss that. That’s the problem with ErogameScape’s rating for the game: many people ALREADY knew the ending before playing it, and thus they rate it lower from that prospective. 
What you’re basically saying is: When I say a game is really good, you don’t trust me that its really good. Fine, just ignore poor 'ole Narg.
Yea… that seems to be the case. Anything with a “heavy metal” theme song. The whole Death Neko Metal thing first showed up in YnK.
Off topic (not meaning to derail the thread): Actually with most eroge, I’ve been spoiled to a certain extent before I play them, since I usually don’t end up playing them until at least several months after their release. More often than not, it’s been unintentional - while reading an unrelated thread people sometimes mention how this reminds them of a certain character/situation/ending in another game, or when looking through sample CGs for a game, sometimes they have massive spoilers in them which clearly reveal plot twists or endings. With Yume Miru Kusuri for example, I knew what happened in almost all of the endings, and what some of the key scenes on each route were before I started playing it - but I don’t think this made the game any less emotionally intense. Although (most of the time) I don’t actively seek out spoilers, I find I just run into them inadvertently. Now that there are spoiler tags, hopefully this won’t happen as often :?.
With untranslated Japanese games, spoilers are often helpful for me, as they help me place the lines I don’t yet understand into context. If the story is considered to be say 30% of the whole product, then I can still appreciate the other 70%. Plus, i find them to be very useful for learning Japanese, although that’s another topic.
And yes, I should probably trust your recommendations more :). [size=50]Although if you hadn’t posted that link, I would never have known about it. :P[/size]
Oh thats cool, I wish there was a yuka one. Any way these are also games on my most wanted japanese eroge list. Sorry if my replys are random, I wish I knew japanese :roll:
You may not believe me, but even if agonizing might be easier than learning, it actually won’t bring you an inch closer to your goal!
indeed try learning the kana man theres only 104 of 'em. Narg I dont suppose you have a link to the Ayyo guys Mindead Blood review.