H-Games that made you wanna....hold your tears back

[papillon]

As Sid already said, in a way though, she partially brought it on herself. Now before anyone jumps on my case about what I said, hear me out. I’m not saying she asked for it to happen to her. Nor am I saying she deserved to have it happen to her. I’m merely saying that due to her actions, she put herself in a position in which it was more likely for it to happen to her. It is kind of like a woman walking down an alley alone while drunk after dark in a known bad part of town. You just don’t do that kind of thing and not realize what risk you are putting yourself in.

Hoo boy.

I know what you’re trying to say, and the underlying meaning is valid - there are certain actions which are simply not a good idea. I haven’t played the game, so I don’t know exactly what the circumstances are, so I’ll just stick with generic ones like your example. Wandering around a bad part of town drunk and alone is a bad plan.

However, there are also very good reasons why a lot of people will get quite upset at you for that phrasing.

The first and obvious one (which you were sort of mentioning) - no matter what risks the victim takes, the fault is still the criminal’s. If a man goes drinking in a pub until he passes out, that was pretty stupid, but it’s still a crime to steal his wallet, and it doesn’t make it less of a bad thing that it happened to him. Going within ten feet of a fraternity house may increase your chances of being gang-raped, but that doesn’t make it any less of a bad thing if it happens to you, or any more your fault.

The second one is that sadly there’s not a damned thing a girl can do to negate her chances of assault, and whatever you do, people pass blame and say you should have known better. Attacked walking home at night? Shouldn’t have walked - call a cab! Attacked by the serial rapist cab driver you called to take you home? (such a case was in the news lately) What were you thinking, getting in a car alone with a strange man? Assaulted by the boyfriend who refused to drive you home and instead took you off to ‘party’ with his friends? Should have just stayed home! Assaulted by a family member in your own home? Well, why didn’t you leave?

No matter what the circumstances are, Every. Single. Time. someone (and often a lot of someones) will suggest that you should have known better, should have done differently, should have avoided it somehow. Because it seems so easy to say that, in hindsight. No matter what the circumstances are, there are always choices you could have made differently that would have caused things to turn out differently. If you’d taken a different route, you wouldn’t have been in that car accident. If you’d taken that job offer last month you wouldn’t have been still at this job when the company collapsed. Etc, etc, etc. You always could have made a different choice. Pointing that out is not helping.

The feminist outrage is not because we think that parading around downtown naked with the words ‘Eat Me’ written on our bellies in body paint is a really smart thing to do and that no one should dare try to talk us out of it.

[SidVanHalen]

Okay I understand what you are trying to put across. However as you haven’t played the game yet so I assume you don’t understand the circumstances.
First of all, speaking generally, the crime is committed by the criminal, but people should be more conscious. And it applies to everything. For example, an elderly couple living a few kms. from my place were brutally killed by thieves because they tried to stop the robbery, one interesting point that came up during the investigation was that they had stocked lots of cash in the house and had no security to protect their home.I felt really bad.That’s just how cruel this world is so part responsibility of ones protection lies on one too.
A simple example may be of chain snatching, you cant tell the victim: you shouldn’t have worn such stuff, although people make such remarks. However IMO the victim in this case has to be aware that she/he is in possession of something valuable and take reasonable steps to make sure she/he stays safe.
So if some one is assaulted by a family member, true the fault is the criminals, and Its bad, such people deserve to be severally punished.However, Its bad to not speak about it too and keep suffering in silence. I mean there are people ready to help such victims.
I know this kind of strays from the discussion, but I gave my opinion.
Back on the topic,

She is a prostitute who sells herself. Once she has a miscarriage in class and now she cant have babies. Then she was saved by the protagonist. Whose fault is it exactly? Later she says that it was an good event.There are couples who try so desperately for children and can’t have them.

One thing that I felt bad about while playing her route, was that she was okay with everything. I mean if you want to come out of a mess, you should try yourself too, instead of hoping for someone to come and save you and love you.On top of that she keeps digging a hole for herself.
I felt bad for everything that happened to her, But I failed to put myself in her shoes, sorry :(. I know its easier to say than to to do but still.

If you ever get her “bad ending” in that she doesn’t stop.

I hope you get my point too. I think she needs professional guidance

[Kimuzukashii_MEIJI]

@papillon

Hoo boy.

I know what you’re trying to say, and the underlying meaning is valid - there are certain actions which are simply not a good idea. I haven’t played the game, so I don’t know exactly what the circumstances are, so I’ll just stick with generic ones like your example. Wandering around a bad part of town drunk and alone is a bad plan.

However, there are also very good reasons why a lot of people will get quite upset at you for that phrasing.

The first and obvious one (which you were sort of mentioning) - no matter what risks the victim takes, the fault is still the criminal’s. If a man goes drinking in a pub until he passes out, that was pretty stupid, but it’s still a crime to steal his wallet, and it doesn’t make it less of a bad thing that it happened to him. Going within ten feet of a fraternity house may increase your chances of being gang-raped, but that doesn’t make it any less of a bad thing if it happens to you, or any more your fault.

The second one is that sadly there’s not a damned thing a girl can do to negate her chances of assault, and whatever you do, people pass blame and say you should have known better. Attacked walking home at night? Shouldn’t have walked - call a cab! Attacked by the serial rapist cab driver you called to take you home? (such a case was in the news lately) What were you thinking, getting in a car alone with a strange man? Assaulted by the boyfriend who refused to drive you home and instead took you off to ‘party’ with his friends? Should have just stayed home! Assaulted by a family member in your own home? Well, why didn’t you leave?

No matter what the circumstances are, Every. Single. Time. someone (and often a lot of someones) will suggest that you should have known better, should have done differently, should have avoided it somehow. Because it seems so easy to say that, in hindsight. No matter what the circumstances are, there are always choices you could have made differently that would have caused things to turn out differently. If you’d taken a different route, you wouldn’t have been in that car accident. If you’d taken that job offer last month you wouldn’t have been still at this job when the company collapsed. Etc, etc, etc. You always could have made a different choice. Pointing that out is not helping.

The feminist outrage is not because we think that parading around downtown naked with the words ‘Eat Me’ written on our bellies in body paint is a really smart thing to do and that no one should dare try to talk us out of it.

Your point is well taken and understood. I have known women who have been assaulted, and I don’t deny that all blame for the actual crime lies in the actions of the criminal. However, fault for an overall incident (of any type) is not a binary type of thing. While fault for the actual crime lies with the criminal, when a victim places themselves in danger with reckless disregard, blame lies with the victim for not taking common sense precautions. By no means does this lessen the fault of the criminal. In the case of Yuka, she made the decision to be a prostitute, which placed her in a situation where she was much more likely to be assaulted. This is one of those few times where this kind of thing applies, because it is so obvious before and not just after that it was a bad idea. In a way, it is like someone who drives around without wearing a seatbelt and gets hit by a drunk driver and dies. The crime is completely the fault of the drunk driver, but if the victim had been wearing a seatbelt, they wouldn’t have been ejected from the vehicle and died.

[papillon]

And failing to wear a seatbelt is stupid, and you really shouldn’t have done that, and anyone who sees you about to do that may rightfully give you a piece of their mind. On the other hand, sometimes shit happens, sometimes your seatbelt was broken and you were taking the car off to be repaired and you made a bad choice. It’s still just as much of a tragedy.

Again, I don’t know the character or her story at all, but while real world prostitution, ESPECIALLY streetwalking, is dangerous, afaik most people who make that choice are aware of that and doing it because it still seems like the best out of the bad options open to them. Which is why ‘rescuing’ them tends not to work unless you present them with a better plan. Flying a plane (especially a small one) is also a dangerous job. You know the risk when you become a pilot, you take the chance because the benefits appear to outweigh the risk. If things go wrong, it’s still sad even if obviously your choice to be a pilot increased your chances of crashing in a field somewhere.

I’m not denying that people’s actions affect their outcomes, I’m objecting to the idea that we should care less about them because of it. That line of thinking is often applied to try and justify not helping people in need, especially people you morally disapprove of. Some people argue that we shouldn’t provide medical care to sex workers with STDs, or smokers with lung cancer, because they “brought it on themselves”. Well, an idiot trying to cut something with the wrong kind of knife which then slipped and sliced open her thumb brought it on herself too, and may deserve a scolding reminder not to do that again, but few people would argue that you should refuse to sew up the wound.

(Apologies if my rambling fails to make sense, the more I talk the more likely I am to bite my own tail!)

[Kimuzukashii_MEIJI]

Wait a minute, where did I say we should care less about people because of bad decisions they’ve made? Just because someone might shoulder some blame for an overall incident doesn’t mean I wouldn’t care (or would care less) or refuse to render aid. I suppose maybe you thought this because I said this?

How can you possibly love and respect someone who doesn’t love and respect themself first?

If so, I think I should rephrase a bit. What I mean is, how can you possibly be in love with and respect someone who doesn’t love and respect themself first? I have a good friend who smokes like a chimney, tends to drink heavily, and has freely admitted to occasionally doing some drugs. While she loses some respect in my eyes for her actions, I still love her like a sister. If she asked for help in stopping her bad habits, I would do all I could for her.

[SidVanHalen]

Look, I believe in humanity and human rights.However if someone doesn’t respect himself then sorry, I can’t respect him either.
If someone wants help and aid to get out of mess, I’ll willingly help. Loving is a different matter. Respect is one thing and love/hate is another matter.I mean respect is a human right, but you can’t force someone to love you.
Actually I am really interested in finding out How the DO guys develop the relation between Ryo and Yuka. Personally I do think they overdid her a bit.
And i don’t really think Yuka loves Ryo. She just needed someone to help her out.
Peace.