Here's why you don't see English bishoujo games

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#1

My view is that there will always be some people who engage in this sort of things no matter what any legit business does. Heck, I have NEVER bought a music CD in my entire life (seriously) yet I have more anime OST than I can listen to. To put it quite bluntly, the means of how I obtain my music are outright piracy. Having said that, I do buy legit merchandises that I really like. For example, couple days ago I bought a 35 buck book in Barnes & Noble.

My point is that people are self-interested individuals who prefer not to internalize the full cost of a product (most people are cheap bastards). Its just human nature, and rationale such as supporting an infant industry doesn’t mean a dime to a lot of people.

If I were you, Kumiko-san, I would not lose sleep over bbs like that. There will always be legally dubious means (Morpheus, FTP, Fserver in IRC, etc) to obtain almost anything one can imagine, and there is no way any business can stop them from doing so. Those who leech goodies without paying them will always be marginal minority statistially. The reason why freeloaders will never constitute a majority is because most people do not know how to use many P2P programs. Most important of all, it take A LOT of time, energy, and bandwidth to download pirate goods. Last week I tried, for the first time, to leech off some anime files in several mirc channels. I left my computer on for TWO days queuing and ended up with 2 anime episodes. In retrospect, I would be better off just to cough up the 25 dollars and buy the darn DVD.

In short, there will always be cheapskates who are willing to turn their computers on 24/7 and used some obscure programs to compress and crack almost any software applications. In truth PeaPri cannot do a thing about it, so Kumiko-san should not be too disturbed about such underground groups. My bet is that the absolute majority of potential costomers are not technically inclined to engage in such time- consuming endeavors (Morpheus is a different story…).

Phi

[This message has been edited by Phibrizzo (edited 09-08-2001).]

#2

well phibrizzo i really don’t know your connection upload and download limits but 2 anime eps in 2 days really isn’t that good :stuck_out_tongue: you should really search for some decent channels. About the buying anime in shops hmmmm well most anime downloadable aren’t licensed so not available unless you live in speak read japanese ^^ besides i call what anime stores have in their collection pityful i mean only 2 eps available of cowboy bebop -_- for like 50 bucks i’d rather spend 2 days on mirc searching than driving 1 hour to the animeshop buying 2 measely eps in my opinion ,your free to buy them though^-^

#3

It’s the same reason why OTAKU doesn’t port games to english anymore. The pirates were killing them. It just irritates me to no end! I swear some people just have no respect for the hard work and effort other people do, and that’s basically what’s wrong with society today.

#4

Hi new to the board anyway…

I have question. Can PP and other BiGaCo sue for damages or something more than threatening letter. I’m sure something can be done because other companies like Fox(X-files), Paramount(Star Trek), and Warner Bros(I don’t remember) have been able to control what site is acceptable.
And
I partially agree with Phib, but concerning bishoujo games the scale of pirating is different. It isn’t a small group instead a huge community.

#5

Hey Jay,

Good to see a new face around here.

Anyway, the penalities for copyright infringment (usually where piracy occurs) are very severe. Ever actually read the FBI warning at the beginning of your FOX DVDs? that’s the normal penalty (up to severall thousands of dollars, and jail time.)

But, one of the problems is, FOX, WB, TNT, HBO, etc all have much larger budgets for legal cases then PP and other game sites due. What I mean is, FOX makes billions of dollars. It has the moneitary needs to hire lawers and to try websites and people for copyright infringment. PP, not to speak for them, doesn’t yet.

So, PP (as well as Himeay, JastUSA, MediaBlasters, ADV, etc, etc, etc) really need our help by making people aware that piracy of any type is wrong, and that they’re hurting the market for everyone by their selfish acts.

Anyway, welcome aboard, it’s good to meet you Jay.

Mike

#6

Kumiko,

i haven’t seen a civil action yet and i will rent it on tuesday. As for the Steven Seagal movie i’ll pass and rely on “a civil action”.

About the Napster thing i agree with you that it should be shut down. I also don’t know enough about it to believe it is illegal or not even after the court’s decision because they both had very good arguments.
One of Napster’s arguments was that they don’t actually distribute the copyrighted material and what other people do isn’t their fault. Even though i don’t like Napster, but this is still a valid argument. For instance i couldn’t sue Seattle for making streets that allowed drug dealers to distribute drugs because it isn’t the city’s fault. Or sue Geocities or simplenet because they provided an area for illegal activity.

I don’t remember the other arguments right now and don’t want to because it hurts my head. So i’m going to play my games and sleep.

#7

okay…this is kinda a side note…but it bothered me

the term “hacker” was used to describe people who pirate software

this is incorrect, please get to know the proper terminology to avoid insulting people needlessly

hacker: someone who is a good programmer, generally harmless, if he breaks into things it is to learn, never to cause harm

cracker: a darkside hacker, one who uses his skills for evil purposes, sometimes likes to call himself a “hacker” but is not truly, for he has abandoned the true hacker’s philosphy of learning without hurting others(this is the term you should have used)

pirate: a specific subclass of cracker

for more specific expanations, and for all your other techie definition needs see: http://www.tuxedo.org/~esr/jargon/

yeah, the bishoujo/hentai game piracy problem bothers me. i dont want the market to die off.
but what can we do to stop it? just look at mp3 piracy, its like trying to forbid someone from catching a cold. nothing seems to cure it.

[This message has been edited by exoarchaeologist (edited 09-08-2001).]

#8

Well I just feel like I have to say something for this serious topic.

First I’d like to start with saying that I myself d/l anime, hentai, games mostly for previewing purposes… Lately all the anime I’ve been d/l has not been licensed. As for the one’s that I’ve d/l long time ago that are now licensed, I have respectively bought them already or still trying to save up.

Now for Hentai videos, I gotta say that sex sells and there are ALOT of hentai to d/l out there now that hasn’t been licensed. Just like I’ve did with anime I bought them respectively.

The same will be for H-games so I’ll just skip saying anything…

Now this is what I feel as a fan if Kumiko wouldn’t mind calling myself that. I love anime, hentai, and games. I download what is not available on the U.S market, from time to time I WILL d/l licensed anime/hentai/games to preview. If I like what I see then I’d gladly pay for it cause I belive it deserves it. I do not intend to pay 30-50$ for an anime/hentai that I don’t like. Take Ayashi no Ceres for instance, I’ve downloaded episodes 1-16 of this and I’ve only watched to ep 13 cause I don’t really enjoy this series. I don’t think I’ll even watch anymore of it… So like I said, if I don’t like it I won’t buy it.

The thing is even if I do like an anime/hentai/game I need money… there is alot of stuff out there it’s all about saving/spending money for it. Some people rather just download and spend there money elsewhere. I for one spend most of my money in anime related things.

Oh and btw I’ve preordered Little My Maid in June i think. I’m still waiting for it and im not the type to person to rip/crack/or even encode, so don’t expect i’ll do anything like that to your game, I love Peach Princess for bringing games like LMM to the market, I don’t know why but i like maids that’s why i preordered this as soon as i could

[This message has been edited by Freak (edited 09-08-2001).]

#9

To answer Jay’s question:
I think the other legal argument Boise and his cohort of attorneys presented during the trial is that Napster didn’t reap in monetary profit from member “directly” from the file downloading. Its based on the legal precedent set in the VHS/Betamax case more than two decades ago, which said Kodek/Fuji?? (the VHS tape manufacturers) couldn’t be hold liable for the lost of the movie industry due to piracy because tape manufacturers didn’t and couldn’t gain monetary profit from pirated goods.

As for suing the pirate organization in court, it depends on whether its a civil or criminal suit. In a criminal case, guilt is decided (at least in the US legal system) on the “preponderance” of evidence whereas in a civil case needs only “reasonable” amount of evidence. Basically, the plantiff needs a lesser burden of proof in civil litigation than in criminal case.

IP codes and statutes are not my field, but I would guess that it all comes down to the question of “intent” and the “But-For” doctrine. Was Napster intended to facilitate pirated music? Further, if Napster didn’t exist, would the MIAA suffer the same amount of loss due to piracy (But-For doctrine). Those were the fundamental questions in the Napster case.

Setting aside the legal rhetoric and prevarications, any sane person knows that Napster and its successors Morpheus/Gutella/Kazak are outright pirate applications. Still, since I am an unscrupulous music consumer, I can conscientiously listen and swap my mp3 files while letting some schmucks pay their tributes to support the mulit-billion dollar music industry. (in classical game theory, the best situtation one can be in is when, for example, everyone be vaccinated except you. As such you won’t have to pay for the vaccine while you’ll never get sick.)

Guess I should stop before being blacklisted in this board…

Phi

[This message has been edited by Phibrizzo (edited 09-08-2001).]

#10

To Freak,

I hate to say this, but the whole “I can’t afford to buy game XYZ or anime ABC, so I’ll download it to test it” is a load of horseshit.

I’ve lived enough lean $$$ years to know that if you really want something, you’ll scrape the money together to buy the product. $40 bucks is what? 8 hours at $6 and hour, a couple of nights you don’t goto McD’s for dinner.

If you want to know about a game, just ask. There are a ton of people on this BBS, Himeya’s BBS, and other BBSes that would be more than happy to tell you all kindsa stuff about the game. Want to see the art? Goto the game’s webpage. Criminy Peach, Himeya, and JastUSA all offer a few pics of each of their games so you can see the artwork.

By downloading the material illegally you’re telling the companys and people like myself, that you’d rather steal it, and that you don’t care to purchase it. Even if you have good intentions, a game company will only see that you’ve already purchased an illegal copy, and thus won’t offer a legit copy to the english market.

I’m sorry if this sounded harsh, but what you are doing is illegal. Useage of illegal goods is illegal. That’s why it’s called an ILLEGAL GOOD! By doing what your doing, you’re perpetuating piracy, and hurting the market for everyone else.

The reason bishoujo game XYZ isn’t out is that you’re not showing there is a market for it. A company will see that pirates are already offeiring illegal copies of their games, and not offer it legally as it’s not worth the money to translate, market, package, and the like of the product.

If you want to see a title offered, tell the company! Let the company know that there are people who are interested in buying anime XYZ or game ABC. It might not be out on the shelves next week, but it’ll let them know that the market does exist. Don’t go looking for a pirate site so you can download it. This kills any possibility that a company would release a game.

To put it another way, you’d feel really pissed-off if someone stole doujinshi art you did, and then proceeded to sell it.

Mike Thomas

#11

To Woodelf

quote:
Sometimes you do need the game the to check if it does work with your machine. This is where demos are nice.

That’s why you ask. You can see what system requirements a game has by going to the website. You don’t need to download it so you can see if it runs on your Linux machine.

There’s a reason Linux doesn’t have games programmed for it, but Windows does. Windows is a much more commonly used system. Sure, a handful of programers and others use Linux, but the VAST majority of the home computer market has Windows. So, guess what, games are made for Windows.

And, by asking, you can hear if anyone else has had trouble running game XYZ under a specific windows or J-windows system.

quote:
Well if you live on the poverty line or low income 40 US dollars is a lot of money.$60 Canadian. Still since most games are about 40 hours to play that is $1 a hour. A good deal.

If you’re in the poverty zone, the last thing you’ll have will be a computer and a modem. So it’s a moot point.

As for low income, that’s exactly what I was talking about. If you really want something, and are on a very tight budget, you’ll find a way to buy it properly. I can remember several weeks when I’d scrimp soda change so I could go to the movies on Friday at college. Or when I wouldn’t go out at all, just so I could charge Gloria from Himeya to my credit card.

$40 for the amount of work that has been put into these games is hugely inexpensive, and very reasonable. Criminy, most mainstream PC games are now anywhere from $35 - $55 bucks US, and people seem to be able to scrape together money for that.

quote:
Sometimes the wanted information is hard to find. Does the leal copy of “Season of the Sakura” have Voice over?

It’s not hard to find the info, people just don’t want to look. Pirates spends days looking for places where they can download games for free. Why not spend a couple of hours to go visit the game designers website to find out if game XYZ has voice over.

And, this gets back to asking. If you’d email Peter Payne of JastUSA, I’m sure he’d answer your question does “Season of the Sakura” have voice overs.

Sorry if my answers are a bit short and curt. These are the sorts of reasoning people who play pirated games use to aliviate their guilty concious.

Mike Thomas

#12
quote:
Originally posted by Mike Thomas:
Sorry if my answers are a bit short and curt. These are the sorts of reasoning people who play pirated games use to aliviate their guilty concious.

That's assuming that they have one to begin with.

#13

You know, Kumiko…It strikes me as sort of silly to rail against piracy on this board. Everyone on this board, I would imagine, more or less agrees with you.

If I were you, I’d have everyone on that board who either asked or offered your products TOSsed by their email providers. It won’t help that much, but it will help.

#14
  • To: Mike Thomas

    Hey what’s with you? You saying i like to steal? well i’m sorry but i’m not rich so i can’t buy something as soon as it comes out, by the time i am able to save up money to but a certain thing i might totally forget about it until the next time i see it. Now it’s TRUE that i do d/l to preview so stop saying it as if i’m full of crap, that really huts my feelings. Have you even read my post properly? Here are examples of what i’ve done.

    I’ve d/l the first ep of DUAL and loved the show right away, I stopped d/l at ep one and went to buy the DVD right away, i couldn’t wait…

    Before Hand Maid May came out on DVD i had the entire series on my computer. The SECOND i saw it on the shelf in the store i always shop at, i picked it up and said i’m buying this. I love that show soooo much.

    Now i don’t really like horror stuff but i’ve seen the art of DIVIDEAD but i wasn’t convinced by any of the reviews that i saw (oh btw I DO LOOK FOR REVEIWS AND PICS!!). I d/l the game played it and liked it, when i had enough money i bought it.

    Now don’t start labeling me as a thief thinking that i like to steal. I’m not rich but i do buy thing’s i’ve d/l respectively.

    - To: Kumiko

    Don’t you think that checking out a game first would be better than just reading about it? If there were demos of all the games out there i would check those instead of acctually getting a pirate version… Sometimes reading about it or asking someone that played it isn’t enough, sometimes you would like to experience what the game is by yourself. And buying it after playing isn’t that supporting the company?

    [This message has been edited by Freak (edited 09-09-2001).]

#15
quote:
Originally posted by Freak:
- To: Mike Thomas

Hey what's with you? You saying i like to steal? well i'm sorry but i'm not rich so i can't buy something as soon as it comes out, by the time i am able to save up money to but a certain thing i might totally forget about it until the next time i see it. Now it's TRUE that i do d/l to preview so stop saying it as if i'm full of crap, that really huts my feelings. Have you even read my post properly? Here are examples of what i've done.

I've d/l the first ep of DUAL and loved the show right away, I stopped d/l at ep one and went to buy the DVD right away, i couldn't wait..

Before Hand Maid May came out on DVD i had the entire series on my computer. The SECOND i saw it on the shelf in the store i always shop at, i picked it up and said i'm buying this. I love that show soooo much.

Now i don't really like horror stuff but i've seen the art of DIVIDEAD but i wasn't convinced by any of the reviews that i saw (oh btw I DO LOOK FOR REVEIWS AND PICS!!). I d/l the game played it and liked it, when i had enough money i bought it.

Now don't start labeling me as a thief thinking that i like to steal. I'm not rich but i do buy thing's i've d/l respectively.

- To: Kumiko

Don't you think that checking out a game first would be better than just reading about it? If there were demos of all the games out there i would check those instead of acctually getting a pirate version... Sometimes reading about it or asking someone that played it isn't enough, sometimes you would like to experience what the game is by yourself. And buying it after playing isn't that supporting the company?


[This message has been edited by Freak (edited 09-09-2001).]

See that's the problem right there. Most people would use the logic of, "Well I already have the game because I downloaded it off the pirate site, why should I go out and buy something I already have?" If you can't determine after reading the reviews, seeing the pics, etc. then don't buy the game. It really isn't too difficult to guess what gameplay will be like because most game interfaces are similar.

The OS excuse doesn't fly either because as long as you have current drivers loaded for video and sound cards it should run.

And about you being a thief, you're worse, you SUPPORT them.


[This message has been edited by Doug (edited 09-09-2001).]

[This message has been edited by Doug (edited 09-09-2001).]

#16

I hate to say this about another person. (don’t like criticising people) But d/l anything not official is illegal no matter how one justifies. You do not need to d/l anything in order live a happy life. And watching 13 parts of a 16 long show is really, don’t know I lost for words for this one. Maybe the fact that it start well and everyone pirated the person work and the creator lost interest because of that. (and needed to finish it due to contract or what have you.) The very fact that one d/l something is that one supports them. The owner of these sites don’t know if you are “evaluating” a given product or just down right pirating.

However, shut downing sites or even suing does not solve anything. (it helps but, in a different manner.) I live in Hong Kong and I can’t tell you first hand what piracy is like and what it can do to any given industry when done at a mass scale. Please note there is law in place at April first this year to stop intellectual violation at a mass scale as well. (I know it sounds like a joke, but it is now know as the April first ordinance.)

You can buy a copy of almost any given movie before it came out in cinemas here in HK for less than two US dollars. (I talking about the present) And the quality is actually fairly good. (if you are lucky) You can also get DVD with all features in tack for about ten or less US dollars. (I remember seeing SW 1 on DVD when the movie came and the quality was actually acceptable.) When I saw what pirates can do I don’t think the idea of offering more features will solve the problem.

The other problem? Legitimate companies can’t compete with pirates. I mean come on, for less than two US dollars I can get lots of software or MP3s or image etc… What did this mean? There were hardly any places where you can get legitimate software. (I had to buy some games over the net to get what I want. I absolutely refuse to buy pirates even for “evaluation” purposes. Man is cost me a penny. )

The problem here is quite simple yet quite hard to understand. What we have here is usually two mind sets. One that is dead set on getting everything free and the other is give credit where credit is due. I know a lot of people out there will always think computer related software should be free. No matter how much you try to convince these people, you are not going to change their minds. There are also people who simply don’t know. When the April First rule was brought to light last year. (All laws in Hong Kong require a period of public consultation before it gets passed. Yes Hong Kong is the only democratic place in China and does seem to be working.) Some people started questioning themselves if they had pirated goods and what that license agreement actually meant. (I don’t have to say that the software house had a field trip in the days leading to the implementation of the law.)

Why is it hard to understand? Some people think once they bought a product it’s theirs. Quite true, you get no argument from me. However some people think coping to other computers is also ok. It’s like lending a book right? Yeah, but people give books back. Unfortunately people do think like this. Also I believe that electronic media is slightly different to other form of media because of the easy of transfer and the laws that govern them should reflect this.

Now the law is implemented and well placed in the people minds of Hong Kong, did it solve the problem? Nope, cause not. But it did stop people who didn’t know otherwise. Also the software retailers have become more common and the prices of legal software drop dramatically. Games used to cost about 330HKD or 45USD. Now the average game cost about 240HKD or 30USD. This is a huge drop and a small proof what that law did. The only exception seems to be Microsoft products… Hmmmm… I will not go off topic.

I think the best method is still education and spread word around. That is the best method. Since we are PAYING customers and we are more or less living in a capitalistic society. We can only tell other people and organisations that there is a market here and it is a a viable business and there paying customers.

I am more than happy to discuss this topic since I am a firm believer of anti-piracy. (Although some of the method used I really hate. Microsoft’s Activation system is the top one.) I have seen what it can do to an industry. (I can tell the story about the music recording tapes era where NO ONE in Hong Kong bought legal music until the Law made it illegal and pave the way for the CD. This was back in the eighties.)

Anyway, this is my two cents, maybe made in haste since I am at work. Hope it made sense. My English is poor at the moment. Need sleep.

#17

While there is no certain way to prevent piracy,there is a few way to deter them,I’ll suggest a few as follows.

1.Aim at the consumer by giving what the pirates are not able to give.
The Japanese Hgame market do this by giving the buyers lots of nice stuffs with the game such as Limited Number of Phone Cards,Mouse Pad,Artbooks.Posters,etc with every release.Although they can make copies of the gamebut I’m sure they cannot make copies of Phones Cards,Artbooks etc,I was thinking of getting the English version of Dorei Ichibaa,but I will be definatly getting it if the English release will follow the Japanese release by giving away that 20+ page Artbook and that Song CD with every purchase for a limited time,but my sources inform that it’s likely not to be…if that’s the case,I will just save up my money for the Japanese DVD release.

2.Aim at the pirates by follow the main stream of Software release by implementing Copyright Protection.
A major Japanese Hgame Maker,Studio E.Go! began to implement SafeDisc protection last Fall.So far it had been successful as people who download copies of the games aren’t able to successfully make copies onto CD because of SafeDisc protection thus limiting people distributing them for free.And now lots of Hgame makers are following suit.

#18
quote:
Originally posted by atholbrose:
SafeDisc is easily bypassed, and causes CD-ROM compatibility problems in some computers. Seriously, most SafeDisc-equipped games are available on the 'warez' scene just as fast as those games without. Plus you have to license the technology, a cost I'm sure most domestic bishoujo game makers could do without.

Indeed SafeDisc can be easily bypassed by using a software that emulate the protection check.
IMO, all commercial ready-to-use protections are bad. A good protection is always "homemade" and that means investing a lot of time in research and extensive testing to ensure the protection will work on any machine. I don't think PP has enough resources to do that.

If you discover offending websites you can do a WHOIS query like this one :
http://www.leader.ru/secure/whoiz.html?q=www.hentaibbs.com
to find out who is their registrar.
If you contact them saying that someone using their services is doing illegal stuff, they won't be happy *at all*... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]

#19

Hello all,
Piracy is difficult to combat at any level. Look at what Windows XP is doing so that you can not pirate it. I am willing to bet that sooner rather than later all that portection will be worked around too…
I wish I had a guarenteed way to stop piracy and such but alas I am at a loss on that one JUST like everybody else . What I can suggest is that all fans buy what they can, when they can and that each of us do what we can to promote this genre of gaming. Hopefully when we the faithful do what we can and spread the word it will grow.
If advertising was not so expensive I would say try running ads in Playboy or other adult outlets so that MANY know about this. ANIME fans know but what about the rest of the game playing world. I sincerely wish that I had better advice or suggestions. I have been around the anime world a LONG time and I want to see it continue to grow. That means all genres and all types. I can only hope that Peach Princess continues to grow and can survive the onslaught of piracy, an ominous task, but one i truly want to happen.
My wishes for continued luck

#20

Why don’t you guys won’t carry a anime adult DVDs. If you guys sell anime DVDs maybe your company will lot helpful because most of the people like to watch Japanese Anime DVDs. Because I said this I’m the fun of the anime adult DVDs. I went to the comic-con at San Diego I bought Lot of anime DVDs.
Maybe I will go to the Japanese web sites to ckeck out the game tiltles. Who can understand the japanese language try vist web sites at http://www.mediaworks.co.jp then click the Dengeki Link shu.