[quote]
Originally posted by OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol:
[b]Som the programmer in you may see it as a given, but I’m still maintaining you’re wrong and a lot of games don’t use flag events. 
[ 08-16-2007, 04:08 PM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
If the first question is directed at story versus gameplay … Story.
What? Have you been smoking my crack again? 
This, coming from the person with a two dimensional classification system for all the various types of twincest?
duck
And as for this “what is a flag” comments: an int is not a flag. A float is also not a flag. A bool is a flag. Some people may or may not count an enum as a flag.
If you say “if (x < 20) ## else ###” that is not a flag event.
Of course. Twincest. No twincest. You mean to tell me there’s a more definite system? Bah! Blasphemy! 
This is supposed to discourage me?
1. Dating Sim or Visual Novel
Both are fine but I preffer Visual Novel
2. Stat Points or Love Point 2. Stat Points or Love Point
I like stat. points but jet again I prefer Love Points.
3. Standard Cast or Unique
If it’s executed will then both are fine.
4. Size of the Cast
I prefer a small cast. There’s more room for a deeper story and great character development.
CLANNAD has a huge cast though but then again. It’s a quality product that’s really long.
5. Face or Faceless
I prefer if the main lead has a face but I don’t mind if he/she is faceless…but I think faceless main leads ruin the Cg…kind of.
6. Realistic or Magical/Technological
If it’s executed well all are fine but I guess I prefer Realistic and Magical more.
7. Budget
Cg all the way then. I don’t really care about the audio. I listen to the voices but sometimes I just want to read faster.
8. Progressive or Get it Now
Progressive because it can build some hype for the product imo. but don’t announce it from the beginning. Announce it if it reaches the 50% mark.
[ 08-17-2007, 07:49 AM: Message edited by: Bento ]
At least, make that 90%, because from there it usually becomes interesting:
If that project works as I know projects myself, then the development of 90% of a project takes 90% of the allotted time - and for the remaining 10% of development the other 90% of time are needed!
[ 08-17-2007, 08:30 AM: Message edited by: Unicorn ]
You know, I was going to put “except maybe Olf” after that, but decided not to at the last minute. >_>;;
#1: Dating Sim or Visual Novel
I tend to lean towards the VN side of the fence, though I certainly don’t dislike either. =P
#2: Stat Points or Love Point
I prefer the love point system. I feel it seems to more directly reflect your actual relationship with x character than say, how often you jog after supper. XP
#3: Standard Cast or Unique
I generally prefer a more unique cast, but I don’t even have a problem with a cast of stereotypical characters provided the story tosses them into unique circumstances. There just has to be some uniqueness in there somewhere. =P
#4: Size of the Cast
I prefer a smaller cast provided it will amount to more complete, fleshed-out scenarios. For example, I felt pretty attached to Ayano and Maria in Private Nurse, but I honestly couldn’t even tell you any of the girls’ names from Casual Romance Club…
#5: Face or Faceless
I prefer a character with a face. It seems to give them more character. Besides that, I don’t feel that these kinds of games don’t really…immerse you into the world or a role strongly enough for it to try and give the illusion that it’s “you” as the lead. I’d rather just take it in as a unique form of fiction.
#6: Realistic or Magical/Technological
That’s a toughie. =/ I really like aspects of both sides, but magical/technological stories win the day by a narrow margin. Magical/Technological stories just give off a more suspenseful air since they aren’t bound by the conventions of “reality.” The idea that things beyond the realm of the norm could happen is intriguing.
#7: Budget
I’ll cast my vote in the bucket for voice-acting/background music. This just adds so much to a game to me. I’ve always been an auditory learner and have had an affinity for music. These aspects generally add a lot to the mood and quality of a game for me.
#8: Progressive or Get it Now
I’d rather have the progressive title. While it may seem like it’ll never get there, it’s kind of fun to follow the development cycle, speculating and nit-picking… XP
You’re still mixing a flag and a flag event. What you described is a flag: a boolean variable which value you test in order to know whether or not to perform an operation. But it’s not automatically a flag event – since your flag may not be tied to an “event”.
Let’s take the example of a SIM. Let’s suppose one special date happens when the Appearance statistic is at least 100 and the date is a weekend day. Later, a second special event happens if this first event had happened and the date is June. Obviously, you can put if either the first event happened or not by using a boolean value (say,
But your flag may not have been triggered by an event. In a RPG, players would consider “killing the boss” an event (if that’s what triggers the door opening), but I doubt any would consider “reaching the door and hitting the ‘open’ button” an event or “needing to have killed all the monsters of the level”; they’re conditions, but not “events”.
I visited ALcot’s booth at Comiket amd got my eyes burnt by the loliness of “Fair Child”~
[ 08-20-2007, 10:19 AM: Message edited by: OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol ]
I’m thinking this whole argument is based on the wording because a flag event is just that: a flag event. There’s no story requirement – it’s just the alteration of data due to a situation being fulfilled. Flag checking/events are programming and while the flags are simply a form of database notation. I can cite half a dozen programming books and education curriculums that use the term and function as I am: for example OpenVMS documentation and lesson plans from the Computer Science department of Virginia Tech (both publicly available for free). It’s standardized.
Also a hardware engineer would disagree with you on using that term “key event” for all this. It has its own use in the geeky side of the computer world – mainly the interface between a “button” and the computer’s response to it being pressed/depressed… but that’s a whole new can of worms. 
This is what makes me think we’re still not on the same page: I’m not thinking as a player on this, I’m thinking as programmer. That would all be an “event” in the programming using flags to denote it happening. A “condition” is something different - either a material or a statement. Conditional statements are used in conjunction with event flags to save space and tighten code: it would lead to needless repetition coding if not. Long story short: it would take more work and system resources to NOT use an event flag system - unless this is a really, really basic game we’re imagining - and no one in their right mind would consider otherwise.
[ 08-20-2007, 11:03 AM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
But when erogamers are using the terms, they’re thinking as players, the way RPGamers talked about “events” of the game… as players. If you’re to ask them which kind of “events” they’d prefer, not using their terminology is a mistake.
No, they’re conditions. The event would would be them (“conditions”) being realized or not, at a certain time, while the flag would be whatever variable you’re using to test your conditions.
No, that’s the role of mere flags, not event flags. An event is a particular reaction to a particular state of the system; for instance, the system may send an event to indicate a disk full. OTOH, a condition is the description of the system state under which the event is realized. It’s why “needing to have killed all the monsters of the level” is a condition; it being realized would constitute the event. As for a flag, it’s just a variable reflecting the realization or not of the condition (i.e. the event) at a certain time.
Link? I’d be interested by any source where an event is not a reaction (hence the reason why an event is triggered) to a situation but rather the description of when this reaction happens. PM though, because we reached a point where we’re just having a geek discussion about terminology.
[ 08-20-2007, 11:17 AM: Message edited by: OLF, i.e. Olf Le Fol ]
Yea… we should go offline with this.
In fact, was considering posting the following.
but…but…i was enjoying the discussion (even if i wasn’t a part of it)!
renpy ftw!
(I’m not using it myself, but it’s certainly a fast way to get started.)
#1: Dating Sim or Visual Novel
Depends really what I’m in the mood for, so no real preference here but if I had to pick… Then Visual novel, with a lot of different story paths.
#2: Stat Points or Love Point
Love Point, definitely love points. Those stat building ones just tend to annoy me.
#3: Standard Cast or Unique
I prefer unique in so far that they’re interesting with deep/involved story lines. If because of those stories they happen to coincide with a B-game standard character type, then it’s alright.
#4: Size of the Cast
Very difficult to say. Bigger is better, but then again quality matters. It would depend on how big the game was, and how complex the story. Personally I think 5 or 6 is a good number (the 6 is if there are twins ), maybe with a few hidden girls that are harder to get or only on the second game.
#5: Face or Faceless
With a face if the character’s personality is already well defined (Fate/Stay Night would not have worked as well if Shirou didn’t have a face), without if the players choices are what define the personality (during the game, or perhaps during a pre-game ‘character generation’ thing).
#6: Realistic or Magical/Technological
Magical/Technological for me. I prefer having things that I can’t see in real life. Even if it’s just real life with Extra. Heavily themed Fantasy/Sci-fi, or just modern day with a twist, that’s the kind of stuff I like.
#7: Budget
This is also a complex question. I will attempt to explain myself as best I am able, only with regards to those three (I assume the story has the top priority).
(A) Visuals - Probably one of the most important as it is the first thing people will notice about the game. For example there are certain kinds of anime styles that I prefer over others, and I’m more likely to notice a game that has that style.
(B) Audio - Less important, since people can turn them off, but bad voices will leave an equally bad impression of the characters. Try to focus more on the music as that will not generally be turned off. Remember, your voice actors don’t have to be famous, they just have to sound good.
(C) Engine - I’m putting this one last sice the ‘standard’ format for the engine is already well established. Save/Load(quickSave/quickLoad for those games that have sudden deaths), a memory room to review H scenes, etc. You know the drill, extra bells and whistles are interesting but not really necessary.
#8: Progressive or Get it Now
Let us know about it, but only in general terms and only things you’ve finalized. There’s nothing more annoying than hearing about a feature before hand, only to find that it was later scrapped.
There hope that helped. By the way Narg, what game are those purple headed twins from? They’re cute! (I do so love those pictures of yours)
[ 08-21-2007, 08:55 PM: Message edited by: Wraith ]
Blade or Renpy… the eternal question, eh?
These twins don’t actually get touchy feely with each other though… although that’s what the shared boyfriend supposed to bring about, right?
[ 08-22-2007, 01:48 PM: Message edited by: Nargrakhan ]
“…despite being ultra moe…”
What the heck dose it mean to be “moe”?