Well Miss Kumiko, I agree with you that to main stream media is easier to label the word “hentai” as the only defintion for our community. Because it is easier that way to define something that they don’t have an interest or understanding. Society don’t really see what we are interesting in as a creditable platform, they haven’t decide to accept us. So it is easier to label us as one single general and vague description to downplay us, because they don’t think we have creditbility in when we call our interest as an art form. Soceity is still very close minded on this department, and until they do, they won’t take the time to separate us or value our love of this subject as nothing more than “hentai” to them. Once they decide to open up to us, then they will start to learn about us. Right now, it is easier for them to label us one very vague term to simplfy their view of our interests, which makes it easier for them to outcast us from the main stream creditbility. That is my take on this subject.
My two cents worth on the uses of the word hentai by Knowledgeable people, is that once they have a word to describe a type/genre they do not see any reason to use another word. I read science fiction and fantasy, but are they under different areas of a book store; no are bunched together as one with comic books and graphic novels as the “Science Fiction” section. Why, because that is how the booksellers have always sold them, not as two different types of books but as the same type regardless. It is only in the small specialty store that they are given their own identities. Because those booksellers know that they are different type of genre. Look at how long it took the U.S. to change its out look on sex and porn. At the turn of the 20th century you could not post any thing in the mail about sex, at all, without it being consider porn. A paper concerning sexual transmitted disease was coincided obscene(I believe that the US Supreme court over turned that case because the paper’s subject was of a science nature not a porn nature). The word hentai is, I think, entrenched in the minds of the knowledgeable people for the foreseeable future regarding any type of Japanese game that has sex and nudity in it. Will this change, yes if people who know the difference between hentai and bishojo keep telling people that they are not the same.
I have been collecting anime for ten years. Until I found this board, I only connected the term “Bishoujo” to Sailor Moon. I still don’t fully understand when to use it.
I have friends, that have collecting anime longer than I, that didn’t know what shoujo ment until I told them.
I don’t expect people know better just because they run a convention or a website. Most of their information comes from where my information cames from, other fans or websites.
I don’t know enough to properly correct them. That would require somebody that actually knows what they are talking about.
[This message has been edited by Mischief (edited 06-12-2001).]
This is off topic…but…
I have a feeling that as we get closer to a release date that the posting is going to increase as people continually check the site for updates…and then when it’s out…everyone vanishes.
It was like that when Baldur’s Gate was in development. When it came out…everybody left the boards.
Anyways, my thoughts on the topic.
Fansubs are illegal. Heck…translating games or anime without permission is considered illegal.
So why do we buy this stuff? Sometimes because it’s the only thing that’s available. I have no problem with paying money to get a game like Tokimeki Memorial…but if I buy it, it won’t run on my playstation, and it won’t be in English. And Konami says they won’t translate it, so there’s nothing else I can do about it.
As for the Sailor Moon issue, I won’t get into that. I’ll just say that I prefer my stuff subtitled and it just isn’t readily available.
I guess that’s just the limitation of language and culture.
Kumiko-chan, have you considered trying to discuss this on other BBSs, like the one run by Anime News Network? I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject to do it myself.
quote:
Originally posted by Mischief:
Kumiko-chan, have you considered trying to discuss this on other BBSs, like the one run by Anime News Network? I am not knowledgeable enough on the subject to do it myself.
I'm refering to the misuse of "hentai" and the need to use the proper terms.
The subject of fansubs shows up regularly, but terminology almost never.
[This message has been edited by Mischief (edited 06-13-2001).]
How does the fansub thing (of which I have very little knowledge, actually) interact with the ‘grey market’ laws? You know, the one which, in effect, allows unpublished versions of works to be published, and sold?
I might add that no money is made from the fansubs I get. I send blank tapes, I get them back with stuff. Why do people do such a thing? It’s a service to the vast majority of us in the US that just can’t understand Japanese.
Yes, this stuff is illegal, none of us make any money, and the stuff always gets terminated when a company licenses the rights. Heck, the reality of it is that a lot of us wind up getting the stuff legit only because we knew it existed from the fansubs.
But take, the year 1998. The net is in full bloom. If you wanted SM stars with some English to go with it, there was only one option…Actually, for that matter, it’s still true. The only stuff subbed legitly right now is S and Super S. The stuff before is owned by DC and nobody can touch it, and nothing yet about stars. We want the stuff translated, and I understand that companies often refuse to do it because they won’t make money. How can we not look for alternatives? Especially for obscure titles or titles that won’t ever be translated.
In short, I don’t want to fork out money for something entirely in Japanese. That’s not worth it. Especially if fansubs are released.
It’s kinda funny depending on who you talk to.
Do people fansub because companies refuse to translate? Or do companies refuse to translate because people fansub?
Let me use another example, since this happens alot. I don’t know if you’ve heard of the Kirameki drive, but basically it was an attempt to get Konami to translate and release its Tokimeki line in the States. It failed, obviously, Konami said they refused to translate it. I don’t fault them for that, I agree with Konami that no money would be made selling Tokimeki Memorial in the US.
So if a translated version was made by a fan and released for free, I shouldn’t get it for Konami’s sake? Especially since they made clear they would never release a version in America? Oh sure, I could buy the original version, that won’t run on my playstation unless I mod (which is also illegal) or I waste even more money for a Japnese system that can’t play my English games, even though it’s an exact duplicate of my legit playstation…or I could buy the PC version which doesn’t run without Jwindows, so I have to buy Jwindows…and English stuff doesn’t run on Jwindows…ugh.
You know, a title like Neon Genesis Evangelion is readily available. We’re not gonna fansub that, that would be stupid. That’s not the point of fansubs.
However, I guess I should add that I do understand the concern that Kumiko shows. The people who distribute readily available stuff or even sell the non readily availabe stuff do a disservice to the Anime community. As in all industries, money is the bottom line, and without income to support itself, a business will flop. Every attempt should be made to encourage companies to translate what we want. Certainly, I see anime being distributed for free on the net that shouldn’t be, I will agree with Kumiko that this is a problem. It’s a problem not only for the anime industry, but in a lot of mediums as well. It’s a complicated situation…I’m certain all of you have heard of napster.
I have one thing to say, that you have to look at from a different picture, copy right for movies or anime online have always been there, but you have see that none of those thing could happen if the hardware company don’t create hardware that allows them to do such thing. For example, napster needs mp3, which can be converted by a program, and legit company makes those programs. What about cd burners, they are illegal, since we can share stuff, which it’s the sole purpose of the cd burners, to share files. Those hardware are legal, but when we use it, it becomes illegal, this is kinda ironic, since those products are made by major companies that cry for copyright for their sofware products that is being share freely throughout the internet. I hope my point make sense to you guys.
Scuddman-san: I will give you an example here, see if you agree or not.
I live in Panama, where the region for DVD setting is 4 (Latin America). The local language is Spanish, although a noticeable part of the population can speak English. Most of the movies showned at the theatres are translated into Spanish, and even some movies aren’t showned at all (take Mononoke Hime, for example). So… I ask you, assume for a moment I don’t speak/write/read English, is it legal or not to send a blank tape to a friend of mine living in Texas and happens to have the DVD (of Mononoke Hime) and tape it for me? Buena Vista isn’t “losing” any money (as you may suggest). Remember, since I am in region 4, and the players can’t play region 1 nor 2 DVDs, it is “useless” for me to get the DVDs… Difficult call, isn’t it?
More comments:
How about the inverse situation? We have Evangelion, Slam Dunk, Card Captor Sakura, Detective Conan, Slayers (TV/Next/Try), Dragon Ball TV/Z/GT, among others, being showed already or still running on TV. If I tape it and send it to the US to my friends over there, is that legal? I mean, there is no “official” distribution of, say, Dragon Ball GT…
Why fansub a serie? Does it help to promote more a serie? Let’s not consider the egg-hen problem here of “Do people fansub because companies refuse to translate? Or do companies refuse to translate because people fansub?” Think what the studio wants if they will translate a serie… As you mentioned later, profit. Each distributed fansub copy means less chance a copy will be sold.
Mordin-san: You could have a CD-RW for making file backups, you know… Don’t tell me you don’t backup your data files or your email! But, still, it is funny that the mayor CD-RW makers promote the drives by emphazasing (sp?) on MP3…
(sigh)…
that’s it fxho…
Well it seems that this can be talked about until eternity but it always leads to one very conclusive fact. Whether it is right or wrong people will always take the easy way out and make justifications for it in their own mind.
I wish it was a perfect world and we could all get what we wanted WHEN we wanted but alas we must do with what we have… I mean how many who read this board would LOVE to see IDOL PROJECT or Wedding Peach FULLY legal in the country we want and put on DVD. The same goes for the various games like KANON and such.
Until people like us can make an impact on the larger gaming world as well as certain anime sections some the best stuff will always be out of reach, sad but true and I wish I had a better answer. All I CAN say I do all I can to promote the genre when possible. My daughter has seen Wedding Peach, IDOL PROJECT, Nurse Angel Ririka as well as others and STILL asks me when can she see them in English…JUST wish I had answer she likes… SHE is a wee bit too young for PeaPri products though Well so much for my 2 cents as usual…
quote:
Originally posted by KimbaWLion:
Well it seems that this can be talked about until eternity but it always leads to one very conclusive fact. Whether it is right or wrong people will always take the easy way out and make justifications for it in their own mind.
I wish it was a perfect world and we could all get what we wanted WHEN we wanted but alas we must do with what we have... I mean how many who read this board would LOVE to see IDOL PROJECT or Wedding Peach FULLY legal in the country we want and put on DVD. The same goes for the various games like KANON and such.
Until people like us can make an impact on the larger gaming world as well as certain anime sections some the best stuff will always be out of reach, sad but true and I wish I had a better answer. All I CAN say I do all I can to promote the genre when possible. My daughter has seen Wedding Peach, IDOL PROJECT, Nurse Angel Ririka as well as others and STILL asks me when can she see them in English...JUST wish I had answer she likes... SHE is a wee bit too young for PeaPri products though [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]Well so much for my 2 cents as usual....
Look on the brightside, if Card Captor Sakura, Vampire Princess Miyu, and St. Tail all sell well maybe we will begin seeing titles like Wedding Peach and Idol Project.
well…
there are two ways to succed in everything in this life…
the easy one… and the honourable one…
the choose lays in each one’s convictions…
so it’s useless to keep repeating the same… cuzz everyone will take it in a different way no matter how much time you try to “persuade” them…
(…that’s what people call “free will”…)