Legend of the Five Rings RPG

Visual Novel Community Anime/Otaku Discussions
#1

Anyone here play the Legend of the Five Rings RPG from AEG? Overall the setting is based on those tragic romance samurai stories from Tokugawa-era Japan and Kurosawa movies. However there’s a good helping of Chinese Kung Fu Cinema and low-level Asian sorcery thrown about.

I got talked into joining a 4th edition campaign over the weekend… and wow… it’s a very fun campaign if you’re interested in heavy social interaction between NPC’s: drinking tea properly can win a war faster than cutting off someone’s head. :o

Compared to other game systems (coughD&Dcough) the rules are simple and character generation is a breeze. On the downside, everything is template based, but it only took me like an hour to figure out what worked and what didn’t to make myself a samurai. My only major complaint, is the $60 price tag for the core rule book… but it’s in full color, so that’s a plus.

All in all though, it’s the best samurai RPG I’ve ever played… and I’m seriously regretting I hadn’t tried it sooner.

#2

The L5R setting is awesome - one of the better game settings I’ve ran or played. (City of Lies is one of the three best Boxed Sets I’ve ever purchased)

I have never used the game system, however, so can’t comment on that. The projects seriously went down hill when they briefly tried dual statting with d20 - thankfully they came to their senses and went back to their own system. All the books I own are from an older edition, so the prices on them have been much more reasonable. Not sure if much of the fluff has changed, you’d probably do just as well purchasing the older supplemental books, such as the clan books. I highly recommend getting your hands on the 2 books of the Shadowlands, as they are quality material and apparently increasingly difficult to find. (and, again, I can’t recommend the City of Lies boxed set enough … even if it uses a different edition, the vast majority of its value was in setting info … though if you don’t intend to ever run a game you’ll probably never need it)

I own quite a few of the older setting books and consider it well worth the money I’ve spent.

#3

According to the vets, the fluff remains the same. The game system is officially only #k# again, as the d20 experiment was a failure that is best forgotten. Same vets explained that the major changes from 1st to 4th, is streamlining of the rules: less dice to roll, resolving things is faster. It’s also possible to make non-clan samurai that don’t suck: someone like Zatoichi is now possible. Characters are built using 40 points, with a max of -10 points in disadvantages, and 15 points worth of advantages. Most skills give bonuses at 3/5/7 stages. Generally everyone seems happy with the changes.

Right now I’m in a bind, because it’s so tempting to min-max for optimization… not for power gaming, but because optimization works for RP’ing purposes as well. For example here’s one character I’m thinking of using in the actual campaign starting this weekend:

[code]Kakita Hiroyuki - optimize build

Air: 2 Earth: 2 Fire: 2 Water: 2 Void: 3

Reflexes: 3 Agility: 3

Honor: 6.5 Glory: 1.0 Status: 1.0

Attack Roll: 6k3 (katana) Damage Roll: 6k2 (katana)

School/Rank: Kakita Bushi 1

Skills: Etiquette 1, Iaijutsu (Focus) 4, Kenjutsu (Katana) 3, Kyujutsu 1, Medicine 1, Sincerity 1, Tea Ceremony 1

Advantages: Kharmic Tie (Twin Sister) 3, Prodigy

Disadvantages: Dark Secret (Incestuous Twins), Dependant (Twin Sister), True Love (Twin Sister)

Outfit: Light Armor, Sturdy Clothing, Daisho, Katana, Traveling Pack, 10 koku[/code]

The deal is Iaijutsu. This build gives me:

Iaijutsu Assessment: 4k2
Iajiutsu Focus: 6k4
Iaijutsus Strike: 4k3

6k4 is very deadly for a starter. Will beat any equal level non-Crane, and only a power gaming Crane would be better. However 18 points went to make Void 3. That’s a lot of points, so it sacrifices on the non-combat skills. :frowning:

[code]Kakita Hiroyuki - role playing build

Air: 2 Earth: 2 Fire: 2 Water: 2 Void: 2

Reflexes: 3 Agility: 3

Honor: 6.5 Glory: 1.0 Status: 1.0

Attack Roll: 7k3 (katana) Damage Roll: 6k2 (katana)

School/Rank: Kakita Bushi 1

Skills: Etiquette 3, Iaijutsu (Focus) 4, Kenjutsu (Katana) 4, Kyujutsu 1, Lore: Bushido 1, Medicine 3, Meditation 1, Sincerity 2, Tea Ceremony 1

Advantages: Kharmic Tie (Twin Sister) 3, Prodigy

Disadvantages: Dark Secret (Incestuous Twins), Dependant (Twin Sister), True Love (Twin Sister)

Outfit: Light Armor, Sturdy Clothing, Daisho, Katana, Traveling Pack, 10 koku[/code]

Now this build has a skill layout that’s more realistic to the role being played. However the Iaijutsu suffers harshly:

Iaijutsu Assessment: 4k2
Iajiutsu Focus: 5k3
Iaijutsus Strike: 4k3

5k3 is clearly inferior to 6k4 in the Focus stage (especially the odds in getting exploding dice). I go from bad ass dueling Crane, to mediocre dueling Crane. Thus my dilemma. Going to see what the other PC’s are like first. If the others are optimizing, I’ll do the same… if not, then I’ll use the second build.

I don’t think this group will power game, but if they do, in the first build I can switch families to Doji (+1 Awareness) and then ditch the Kharmic Tie advantage and Kenjutsu points, for a relevant combat advantage. But that’s serious munchkin meta gaming, and these guys don’t have that kind of mentality. :slight_smile:

#4

This is my major concern. Like you said, this is a setting where the way you drink your tea can influence the outcome of a battle. Social etiquette and the like are a very serious matter in 5R and it would be a shame to limit something like that for a little more combat power.

6k4 (roll six dice, keep four, for those trying follow the conversation but not understanding the term) is certainly better than 5k3, but you can improve your skills as you go up levels, right? (I’m vague about level improvement in the system, like I said, never got around to using the onboard mechanics) In this regard it is also a matter of whether being an uber-Iajuitsu master is part of your character concept. To say, though, that you feel overpowered because no one but a Crane could hope to beat you at equal level is, itself, not so much an issue … as a Crane you should be better than most everyone else with Iajuitsu. For that matter, as a Crane you are almost obligated to have at least one skill you are better at than most people - since achieving perfection in what they do is a big part of their culture.

By the way, I had a question about pronunciation of a couple words: Iajuitsu, for one, and the Kaiu wall. My western speaking brain can’t seem to wrap itself around how to say these properly.

Oh, and I love the fact your character has a twin sister - how very Narg.

#5

Total agreement with you. Plus because I’m planning on using a Crane, social etiquette is a must. Not to mention that having 3 in the relevant skill, not only offers me 3 more dice in the rolls, but an inherent mechanical bonus for reaching the skill 3 marker. It’s just as juicy… especially for a combat minded Crane - like having an ace in the hole.

The system for improvement is still there. If the vets are right, it’s easier to “level up” in 4ed than it was the previous versions… although this works as a positive and negative (the NPC’s enjoy it as well).

Aside from appointing myself as the team’s duelist, the godly Iaijutsu is needed for the whole twincest deal. L5R is all about tragic drama, so the GM wouldn’t be doing his job, if he wasn’t going to leverage the whole thing. Thus Hiroyuki would be using Iaijutsu to defend his honor from any sacrilegious gossip, claiming that he and his sister are more than just siblings. The threat of dueling someone who can cut anyone’s head off, is enough to forestall such “lies” from being spread. It also serves as a mechanic for why a lovely Crane maiden hasn’t been wed to someone else: Hiroyuki has made it clear that only someone who can protect his precious sister as he had, would be trusted with that honor. So being unbeatable, keeps the would-be suitors away, even if the duels are first blood: since there would be a loss of honor in failing to secure the bride, after announcing you are seeking her.

Aye. Looking over the mechanics, your typical non-Crane samurai would have an Iajiutsu Focus of between 3k2 (not a duelist) or 4k3 (a duelist), thus making the 6k4 so terrifying. But if the GM plans to go down the “twincest revelation” idea, dueling to preserve our honor, will probably forestall that twin seppuku outcome. It’s not so much that I’d win ¬ñ just that the challenger knows he would lose… and so back down before he falls down.

The Emperor doesn’t like his samurai wasting their lives for nothing after all. :o

The core rule of Japanese pronunciation, is that all vowels get first priority in being sounded out. Goes roughly like this:

iajuitsu = ia-ju-i-tsu = eye-jew-eat-sue

kenjutsu = ken-ju-tsu = ken-jewt-sue

The GM wanted us to have our tragic flaw, that wasn’t stat or skill related, or he’d make one for us: the whole shtick that samurai have an honor threatening fault. So after reading through the book, and looking up the Wiki for background fluff, I quickly discovered that the first Kakita had a twin sister. Then because of Doji, there’s a lot of white hair in the bloodline… which indicates there’s at least some low level incest going on here and there. So it’s only natural that twincest should work. :o

Seeking disadvantages to leverage extra points, practically flew off the pages when I made that decision: Dark Secret and True Love? That’s twincest 100%. Dependant kicked in, because of Yosuga no Sora - needy white haired twin sister with failing health (and thus why a duelist would know Medicine)? Check! More tragedy! It was then only natural to throw in the Kharmic Ties advantage: that means I have 9k6 in attack roll (10k6 with the rp’ing build), if Hiroyuki is involved in combat to protect or defend his sister, thus ensuring the GM doesn’t get any weird ideas about kidnapping or hostages.

It is Narg’s duty to preserve the twincest!! :wink:

EDIT
I do figure though, that ultimately in the end, twincest is why the character will die. Romance never ends well for samurai, and dying in the name of love, is the second greatest thing a samurai can ask for — dying in the name of his lord being the first of course. :mrgreen:

#6

GM won’t let me use a maxed out Iaijutsu duelist. His justification makes total sense: though I’m a star prodigy student, I should have something that reflects inexperience. So I’m allowed to have uber combat skills, but something has to be flawed that’s “one step inferior” than it could be. So Void 2 it is.

However he said to use the most optimized character I could create, with a logical backstory. The campaign is going to have to have some ugly gritty moments. That has me worried…

I’ve also been doing the math wrong: the actual attack and damage values are greater… which is really something… one solid hit with a katana will kill people. Realistic mortality as hell. :shock:

Lastly, the twins will be traveling together a lot: the sister doesn’t want to be away from the brother. In addition, because of our Kharmic Ties, should one of us die, the other will soon follow. Which suits me fine from a character developed prospective… but I think he just wants me to have this HUGE weakness anyone could exploit. And seeing how she’s a GM controlled NPC… I’m sure she’ll fall into lots of trouble, or need some uber rare flower to cure her latest sickness.

Bastard. :stuck_out_tongue:

We’re starting this Saturday evening: will probably last two or three months.

[code]Kakita Hiroyuki (??), Crane Clan Bushi

Reflexes: 3 Awareness: 3 Agility: 3

Honor: 6.5 Glory: 1.0 Status: 1.0

Initiative: 4k3 +8 Attack Roll: 8k3 (katana) Damage Roll: 6k2 (katana)

Iaijutsu Assessment: 8k3 Iajiutsu Focus: 8k3 Iaijutsus Strike: 9k4

School/Rank: Kakita Bushi 1

Skills: Etiquette 1, Iaijutsu (Focus) 4, Kenjutsu (Katana) 4, Kyujutsu 1, Lore: Bushido 1, Medicine 2, Sincerity 1, Tea Ceremony 1

Advantages: Kharmic Tie (Twin Sister) 3, Prodigy

Disadvantages: Dark Secret (Incestuous Twins), Dependant (Twin Sister), True Love (Twin Sister)

Outfit: Light Armor, Sturdy Clothing, Daisho, Katana, Traveling Pack, 10 koku

Miscellaneous Notes: Kakita Shirayuki (??); Twin Sister[/code]

Not exactly sure what the other three players are going to play… although I did hear the GM complain about someone trying to create “Sephiroth with a horse” on the phone. I’m assuming a Unicorn Clan on that one. :lol:

#7

Hopefully the GM doesn’t beat the sister thing with a dead horse - the tie makes for some good potential story, but when the gm uses it too frequently it just becomes a burden and one stops seeing it as a cool character flaw and more as a pain in the ass they can’t be rid of.

I hope the gm giving you free reign to optimize your character for combat doesn’t mean he’ll be glossing over the social aspects of the setting - that would be a terrible crime.

Myself, I was always partial to the Scorpion clan; high intrigue and willing to sacrifice even their honor for the Empire.

You playing once a week? I will be interested to hear how the game unfolds.

#8

After you brought this up, I contacted my GM, to make sure he wasn’t going to make her too obnoxious. He sent me excerpts of the NPC sheet, that were safe for me to know:

[code]Agility: 3

School/Rank: Doji Courtier 1

Advantages: Kharmic Tie 3, Servant: Physician

Disadvantages: Bad Health, Blind, Dark Secret, True Love[/code]

Identical unmodified trait stats as my character (Agility 3). Not surprising though, considering the relation. He made her blind and anemic, but on the plus side she has a personal attendant. When I asked if the servant knew about our Dark Secret, he stayed silent and changed the subject. I smell trouble in the making. :wink:

Now that everyone else has turned in their sheets, I see why he let me optimize: two are courtiers. One is Unicorn and the other is Phoenix. The last player is a Unicorn Bushi - the Sephiroth with a horse (it’s the no-dachi that’s getting that nickname for him).

The campaign primer explains that we’re a diplomatic group that travels between the Crane/Phoneix/Unicorn lands, that tries to settle inter-clan disputes, without having need of long term commitments or violence. The Unicorn Bushi and my character are the yojimbo (bodyguards). My NPC twin is the Crane’s courtier representative. There’s also going to be a Phoneix Bushi as an important NPC. The remainder of the entourage is about a dozen NPC scribes and attendants. We’re gonna have our work cut out for us, if negotiations breakdown into violence (be it bandits or in city walls): it’s largely a noncombatant group.

Yea. Each Saturday is the plan. I’ll see about posting a brief summary of our exploits, in this thread.

#9

rewriting this post for more coherence and better details… gimmie some time :o

#10

Our first session on June 10th was an apocalyptic failure, as we all ended up dead by the end of the night. We zigged (told the daimyo to shove it) when we should have zagged (asked the daimyo for forgiveness), and thus got a TPK when the private army showed up. Needless to say, no one was happy. That being the case, we didn’t get back together until June 31st, as we spent three weeks discussing what was expected ¬ñ both by the players and GM. It was a complete reboot, so events of the previous session did not happen. One player rolled a new character, two retained theirs (with slight modifications), and the fourth dropped out entirely - so there’s only three of us now. :frowning:

Kakita Hiroyuki: This is my character, who is still the twincest Kakita Bushi swordsman. Shirayuki’s reincarnation is not blind, but anemic instead, and doesn’t follow me around: so she’s not as much of a crutch in that regard. However she doesn’t have a school either, just 2 in all Traits and 3 in Lore: Crane Clan (just reads all the time).

Hida Saisyu: The aforementioned Sephiroth with a horse character. Moto Bushi - but a Crab Clan Hida - with an emphasis in using the no-dachi and lots of damage modifiers, so he does something like 10k3 per hit with the thing. Quite vicious considering this is only Insight Rank 1, and we’re not in a Shadowlands adventure.

Suzume Ryakunin: The person who rerolled, this time going for a Sparrow Clan Bushi. Not all that good at combat, being more like a sage than a warrior, but is married to the daughter of a powerful daimyo and has his own village because of it. The spouse doesn’t actually travel with us though, as she manages the village. He’s the de facto party leader, thanks to having a starting Social Rank at 2 and being a Sparrow helps settle any Crab vs Crane arguments that crop up.

Hiroyuki and Saisyu are assigned to Ryakunin, as a sort of punishment. Hiroyuki for interfering with arranged marriages for his sister, and Saisyu for causing some trouble on The Wall. Ryakunin sees this as a perfect opportunity to gain some favor with the Crab and Crane, while fixing Sparrow Clan problems with the extra manpower.

Our new first session involved uncovering a surge in bandit activity. A tainted sorceress somehow managed to mind control a whole bunch of Sparrow peasants. However because the Sparrow prize their farmers so much, we couldn’t just kill 'em all, as easy as that would have been. We had to determine how she could control them ¬ñ a maho incantation written on a scroll ¬ñ and then destroy the thing. The main problem was luring the peasant army away. We ended up doing “hit and run” style tactics, so the peasants would follow us into the forest as we retreated, but retreating is a dishonorable thing. So while we ended up gaining Glory for saving lives, we lost Honor for how we did it. Kinda a damn if you do, and damned if you don’t moment.

Our second session revolved around the discovery of a Scorpion Clan party, searching for something in Sparrow held lands, but not asking permission to do so. We spent some time hunting for a diplomatic answer, but they were adamant and wouldn’t go away. Thus we decided to figure out what they were looking for, and find it first. Eventually we determined they were looking for the scroll we destroyed in the last session, uncovering a much larger plot than we thought, because the Scorpions attacked us after revealing that fact. We killed everyone but the shugenja, to let him deliver a message that we knew what they wanted, then lied that we still had it. We then informed a Crane contact, of the event, who vowed to dig deeper.

On the third session, we get word that the Crane contact was murdered. The Scorpion naturally denies any wrong doing, but for once, it appears they are telling the truth. The individuals, who attacked us in the second session, had died months ago in a bandit attack. Thus we spent time trying to uncovering what the hell was really going on (which we’re still doing). Also during the third session: Hiroyuki was challenged for the right to marry his twin sister by two Otomo bushi (to marry her one has to defeat him first), Saisyu had to repay a favor he owed to his Moto sensei (hence how a Hida knows the arts), and Ryakunin dealt with merchants inflating the price of food in his village (because that’s his primary job).

#11

Yeah, telling the daimyo to shove it probably wasn’t the wisest of decisions.

I’m glad your characters sister isn’t still blind - that seemed a little steep as drawbacks go.

Rokugan is filled with those - though I’ve played at least one written adventure where they railroad you into them a little too hard.

Sounds like the game is picking up and you guys are having plenty of opportunity for non combat interaction, which is good. I’ll be interested to hear how it all unfolds.

#12

I knew L5R had a reputation for lethality, but this seems like a lot. Are you sure you didn’t mean 10d3? :slight_smile:

#13

It’s the way the system works - you roll X dice and Keep Y for your result. So if you do 10k3, you roll 10 dice and keep the results of 3; at least that is how I seem to recall it working.

#14

Ah. Thanks. The only interpretation for 10k3 that I knew before would be ten thousand and 3. That would be a bit high :slight_smile:

#15

What Jack said.

10k3 means he rolls 10 ten-sided dice, and picks whatever 3 results he wants to keep. Furthermore any result of 10 means the dice explodes, and he may roll those dice again to add even more damage. Rolling 10 again means he can keep adding more rolls. Thus he can do more than 30 damage in a single strike. According to my statistic program, he does an average of “32” points per roll.

For reference: my character only has 38 “hit points” total. However hp works differently in this game, than the d20 system. The more hp you lose, the more penalties are applied to your dice rolls ¬ñ this is supposed to represent the excruciating pain and crushing injuries your body has experience. If my character lost 26 hit points, I’d be so injured I couldn’t even hit a tree in front of me. So basically if Saisyu hits someone, they’re either dead, or knocked out on the ground wishing they were. However it’s not just him. I do 6k2 damage with a katana ¬ñ which is average for a samurai ¬ñ meaning around 20 points per swing. Instead of raw strength, my character has above average Reflexes, meaning he usually attacks first and dodges easier (important for dueling). So while it may take me two hits to kill someone, if my first strike hits that person, they’ll be so injured they can’t touch me with their counterstrike (because of the damage they’ve suffered and the penalties applied).

This game is absolutely brutal about combat. One or two hits is all it takes to kill or be killed… just like real life really. The idea is that combat should be a last resort. The reason why in our first session, we could take on a peasant army, is because they’ve had attack rolls of 2k1 (not trained warriors) ¬ñ that’s like a 2% chance to hit a decently trained samurai. However those fake Scorpions in the second session nearly killed us. We didn’t let that shugenja go because we wanted too… we let him go because we weren’t sure we could finish him off before he could finish off one or two of us off first (samurai don’t surrender or admit defeat, but they’re not supposed to throw away their lives recklessly either). :? We figured he’d think we had what he wanted, and we could finish him off later when he tried… hence the bluff about the scroll.

As you gain levels, you can increase hp by boosting the Earth Ring, but leathality still remains because you also do more damage as you go up (or at least, if you pump the right skills and attributes). Also even the lowest peasant can kill you: his chance for hitting you are just unlikely… but if he gets lucky rolls, just one or two of them is all he needs to win. Getting swarmed by enemies also lowers your defense score (because there’s more attacks than you can dodge). Even an uber leet samurai, will die if 10 pathetic peasants rush him at once. Again, like real life. :expressionless:

#16

How is your l5r game going, Narg?

#17

No updates? I figure your character would have managed a twincest harem by now and maybe killed a few Oni along the way.

#18

Oops… forgot about this thread. :oops:

The game actually ended two sessions afterwards. We didn’t finish, because the GM got deployed to Afgan. Hasn’t been back since.

#19

Lame, I hate it when the war gets in the way of my games. Had a buddy gone for 18 months do to that crap; had to find a player to replace him. (had another buddy not come back, but he was a lousy gamer so on that level it was less of a problem)

You noticed they’re out with 4th edition, now I believe. I was talking to a guy at the booth about why I’d want to buy the new edition when I had all the Clan Books from 2nd; but I guess the new edition updates the history of the setting and whatnot. I’ve never been a big fan of metaplots, so I think I’ll just stick to the books I have. (though I have to admit it is cool that the ways in which the story advances are directly influenced by the card games and the official discussion forums)