Loli game query

[Nargrakhan]

Loli theme song for the gothic kind?

Emilie Autumn - Gothic Lolita

I ended up getting her collection from iTunes.

Great stuff if you’re into emo music or “Castlevania” style melodies (they have a lot of instrumental songs, like Unlaced). 8)

[Kimuzukashii_MEIJI]

@Nargrakhan

Loli theme song for the gothic kind?

Emilie Autumn - Gothic Lolita

I ended up getting her collection from iTunes.

Great stuff if you’re into emo music or “Castlevania” style melodies (they have a lot of instrumental songs, like Unlaced). 8)

I got the Opheliac album after my friend from Greece introduced me to her music (which was brought about in turn by me having her hear the song “Dethharmonic” from Dethklok’s Dethalbum, a song Emilie Autumn played violin for). It’s not what I listen to most the time (that being classic rock and just about any type of Japanese music), but it works well when I’m in a certain mood. The messed up thing is that Emilie Autumn has said that the album is greatly autobiographical, pointing to, among other tracks, Gothic Lolita in particular. Really makes you wonder what her childhood was like…
Another interesting song is “I Know Where You Sleep”. While you listen to it, keep these facts in mind:
[list]
[]Emilie Autumn was once in a relationship with the frontman of Smashing Pumpkins, Billy Corgan.[/]
[]Billy Corgan has a book of poetry out titled “Blinking With Fists”[/][/list]

[Nargrakhan]

@Nandemonai

Here is the list of all court filings for this case. The document you referenced looks to be the Aug 20 document. Note no ruling has been issued yet, but it would appear they’ve held the oral hearing. Unless I’m mistaken, when they DO issue a ruling, it will be made available here (ruling issues in 08 for cases heard in 07).

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/ … inion.html

Jinnai made me aware of it:

Case 06-694 has been UPHELD.

[color=red]Child pornography harms and debases the most defenseless of our citizens. Both the State and Federal Governments have sought to suppress it for many years,only to find it proliferating through the new medium of the Internet. This Court held unconstitutional Congress’s previous attempt to meet this new threat, and Congress responded with a carefully crafted attempt to eliminate the First Amendment problems we identified. As far as the provision at issue in this case is concerned, that effort was successful. The judgment of the Eleventh Circuit is reversed. It is so ordered.[/color]

Going through it now. Document is here:

http://www.supremecourtus.gov/opinions/07pdf/06-694.pdf

Finding what they say about bgames… someone understand this legal crazy stuff?

EDIT

Eroge lolicon is safe… THANK THE DAMN GODS!!!

\o/

[color=red]The broad authority to proscribe child pornography is not, however, unlimited. Four Terms ago, we held facially overbroad two provisions of the federal Child Pornography Protection Act of 1996 (CPPA). Free Speech Coalition, 535 U. S., at 258. The first of these banned the possession and distribution of “¬ëany visual depiction’” that “¬ëis, or appears to be, of a minor engaging in sexually explicit conduct,’” even if it contained only youthful-looking adult actors or virtual images of children generated by a computer. Id., at 239¬ñ241 (quoting 18 U. S. C. ¬ß2256(8)(B)). This was invalid, we explained, because the child-protection rationale for speech restriction does not apply to materials produced without children. See 535 U. S., at 249¬ñ251, 254.[/color]

So its no threat to us!!! We’re still legal!!!

Hello girls… oniichan is back!

Okay Peter… GIVE US THE LOLICON! :lol:

[Jinnai]

all the law really prohibits is sexual acts/media with real children or those who pander as those they have child pornography defined as with real children and/or sexual acts involved with them.

Eroge lolicons are not real children and it has never been claimed they were.

[Nargrakhan]

@Jinnai

all the law really prohibits is sexual acts/media with real children or those who pander as those they have child pornography defined as with real children and/or sexual acts involved with them.

Eroge lolicons are not real children and it has never been claimed they were.

Real children or not, the attempt was still made. Hence the Supreme Court affirming that lolicon art is still legal.

In December 2005, Dwight Whorley was convicted under 18 U.S.C. 1466A(a)(1) on twenty counts for receiving “…obscene Japanese anime cartoons that graphically depicted prepubescent female children being forced to engage in genital-genital and oral-genital intercourse with adult males.” At the time of the violations, Whorley was on parole for earlier sex crimes, although the ensuing convictions were independent of his violation of the terms of the parole. He was also convicted of possessing child pornography involving real children. Later, U.S. Attorney’s Bulletin, which was requested in November 2006 by the Freedom of Information Act, describes the repercussions of this conviction. [color=red]It recommends that the precedent set by the Whorley case be used as a basis for future prosecutions for possession of such obscene cartoons.[/color]

The wording of the Protect Act, made it illegal for lolicon drawings. The US Attorney’s Office was going to use it as such. While the Supreme Court has upheld the Protect Act, they assert that it has two major limitations… one of which is NOT prosecuting for “obscene cartoons”. So yes… the Protect Act is Constitutionally legal, but within certain guidelines.

So as far as we eroge fans are concerned, we won (others though; might have lost).

EDIT
Hmmm… the news sources reveal there’s still a legal loop hole:

CNN - FOX

Souter said promotion of images that are not real children engaging in pornography still could be the basis for prosecution under the law. Possession of those images, on the other hand, might not be prosecuted, Souter said.

So basically you can OWN them, but you can’t OFFER them? WTF? The buyer is legit, but the seller is illegal? I swear… why can’t these people just close out all the issues at once. Now we’re gonna have to have ANOTHER ruling, when some law enforcement agency tries to test that loop hole… and you KNOW they will. :roll:

[Raigan]

@Nargrakhan

So basically you can OWN them, but you can’t OFFER them? WTF? The buyer is legit, but the seller is illegal? I swear… why can’t these people just close out all the issues at once. Now we’re gonna have to have ANOTHER ruling, when some law enforcement agency tries to test that loop hole… and you KNOW they will. :roll:

Job security :P.

[Nandemonai]

1. There are images which are illegal to possess, and others which are not.
2. If you make an offer which is ambiguous as to whether it refers to one or the other, you could theoretically be prosecuted
3. As interpreted, the ‘pandering’ offense says you can’t offer to distribute (pander) child porn
4. Only illegal images can be pandered; if you offer to distribute images which aren’t illegal, then you can’t be convicted of pandering
5. “Illegal images” are defined by the previous laws which have withstood constitutional challenges – the drawing parts specifically (what we care about) did NOT pass scrutiny
6. In order to convict for pandering have to prove the defendant knew they were making an offer to distribute the illegal stuff

From the text of the opinion directly: “[An] offer to provide or request to receive virtual child pornography is not prohibited by the statute. A crime is committed only when the speaker believes or intends the listener to believe that the subject of the proposed transaction depicts real children.”

Therefore as long as it’s clear you’re talking about loli hentai, you are unambiguously not covered. Where you would get into trouble is if you stupidly said something that wasn’t immediately clear in context – like if you posted a link that said only ‘Great 14yr old pics found here’ (without clarifying) and it linked to some loli manga – the manga itself would be perfectly legal … but you could arguably get in trouble for this “pandering child porn” even though the underlying content remains legal.

And really you SHOULD NOT be attempting to promote … the other kind. It’s illegal for a good reason.

[Jinnai]

@Nargrakhan

Souter said promotion of images that are not real children engaging in pornography still could be the basis for prosecution under the law. Possession of those images, on the other hand, might not be prosecuted, Souter said.

So basically you can OWN them, but you can’t OFFER them? WTF? The buyer is legit, but the seller is illegal? I swear… why can’t these people just close out all the issues at once. Now we’re gonna have to have ANOTHER ruling, when some law enforcement agency tries to test that loop hole… and you KNOW they will. :roll:

Based on wording from the document not promoting them as something like “simulated child porn” which is ambiguous and misleading.

Furthermore, PP could probably if they wanted to (though i doubt they will) stop using the “all characters are 18 or older” disclaimer and simply state, “all characters are fictional animated characters that do not depict real life…” or something like that.

[Nargrakhan]

Ah… glad people here understand Legal-ese. It’s like Simlish to me.

[le_nuage]

Even if it was ilegal to have 2D child porn, there will always be THE solution : “They are all over 18 sir… They just look young.”

How can you really say how old is a 2D girl ?
I can draw something that looks like a baby and say she is 30 if I want.

[Nargrakhan]

All you people who own Dizzy hentai are going to prison. She’s only two or three years old. Thus not at the age of consent. :twisted:

Disturbing ain’t it? :lol:

[mirage]

@Nargrakhan

All you people who own Dizzy hentai are going to prison. She’s only two or three years old. Thus not at the age of consent. :twisted:

Disturbing ain’t it? :lol:

She’s not human, she’s a Gear ^^

[Nargrakhan]

@mirage

She’s not human, she’s a Gear ^^

Tell that to your Lawyer. Maybe he can convince the Jury.

[Andemon]

@Nargrakhan

@mirage

She’s not human, she’s a Gear ^^

Tell that to your Lawyer. Maybe he can convince the Jury.

Prosecutor: “Actually, we have evidence to prove that Dizzy is, in fact, a half-Gear, the other half being human. Motion to dismiss… DENIED.”

[mirage]

@Andemon

@Nargrakhan

Prosecutor: “Actually, we have evidence to prove that Dizzy is, in fact, a half-Gear, the other half being human. Motion to dismiss… DENIED.”

Wrong.Theyr is no proof of that because we know nothing about her birth.We only know that her mother is Justice… But she was prolly created artificially… And anyway, if you want to talk about GG… let’s talk about the trap for all the Loli Fan : Bridget

[size=1]Bridget is a Boy ^^[/size]

[B173_M3]

Maybe we should just start a new thread for legal shit regarding loli content? I thought this was for IDing lolis in games…

[Nargrakhan]

@mirage

Wrong.Theyr is no proof of that because we know nothing about her birth.We only know that her mother is Justice… But she was prolly created artificially… And anyway, if you want to talk about GG… let’s talk about the trap for all the Loli Fan : Bridget

Bridget is 50% of potential twincest. Therefore Bridget is love, regardless of what oddities that Bridget might exhibit. Not Narg’s kind of love mind you, but love nonetheless.

@B173 M3

Maybe we should just start a new thread for legal shit regarding loli content? I thought this was for IDing lolis in games…

That’s already been done. It’s not like there’s an infinite selection of English eroge to begin with, and a short list was compiled a few posts back, so the original intent of this topic has been filled. Therefore the train is going in a new direction.

For eroge still in Japanese, there’s this thread.

Besides… all threads tend to go off topic, until something worthwhile puts it back on topic.

EDIT
A few seconds ago, I was going to take the initiative and just go through each of the JLIST titles, to determine which has loli and which does not.

It then hit me, that loli is kinda objective, don’cha think? For example, it was mentioned that Chimaki Hase from Do You Like Horny Bunnies? is loli. Okay… but I don’t really see her as loli to be honest. To me, loli is like Red Riding Hood from Nocturnal Illusion. Just having small breasts and being short, isn’t exactly loli, right? Its more than a look… its also their point of view and personality… because loli is more than just an age: the aforementioned Dizzy is two years old, but not loli. Sasami from Tenchi is over seven hundred years old, but counted as loli.

[B173_M3]

That’s already been done. It’s not like there’s an infinite selection of English eroge to begin with, and a short list was compiled a few posts back, so the original intent of this topic has been filled. Therefore the train is going in a new direction.

If that’s the case, I think this thread has effectively served its purpose and should probably be closed. I get tired of how every thread concerning loli content tends to turn into some form of legal debate. I know it’s important and all, but why does it have to end up as the center of every loli-based thread?

[Nero_Blackheart]

Damn it, I’m the Guilty Gear master around here, and I missed a potential Dizzy/Bridget debate. I am shocked and ashamed.

If that’s the case, I think this thread has effectively served its purpose and should probably be closed. I get tired of how every thread concerning loli content tends to turn into some form of legal debate. I know it’s important and all, but why does it have to end up as the center of every loli-based thread?

Because its important and all, and its fun to poke at the law…

[Nargrakhan]

@B173 M3

If that’s the case, I think this thread has effectively served its purpose and should probably be closed. I get tired of how every thread concerning loli content tends to turn into some form of legal debate. I know it’s important and all, but why does it have to end up as the center of every loli-based thread?

Same reason why threads about evil people, inevitably become a debating forum for Hitler.

In any event: I don’t think closing threads is a good idea. It just leads to more threads being made… which still clutters the boards. Besides… all topics that go off topic, eventually steer back on topic, if the topic was worthwhile to begin with. Not like this thread was a total waste anyways. And besides: some threads get a single answer - or even no answer- then die off in the wastes of forgotten posts.

If anything is wasteful, its those.