Lolicon & CPPA - Ashcroft vs. FSC

Oh no, this sound really bad . You know, this is just an idea of mine, what if you guys put something like “ALL CHARACTERS DEPICTED IN THIS GAME IS OVER 18 YEARS OF AGE. ANY RESEMBLANCE TO ANY PERSON LIVING OR DEAD IS PURELY COINCIDENTAL” on your future games if that law is going to be passed down, will this help ?

quote:
Originally posted by Serio:
Oh no, this sound really bad [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]. You know, this is just an idea of mine, what if you guys put something like "ALL CHARACTERS DEPICTED IN THIS GAME IS OVER 18 YEARS OF AGE. ANY RESEMBLANCE TO ANY PERSON LIVING OR DEAD IS PURELY COINCIDENTAL" on your future games if that law is going to be passed down, will this help [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]?

It's the standard dodge used today but if I understand the wording correctly, this still wouldn't be enough. (Granted, I'm not a law student or anything) Like Kumiko says, it's very vague at points which leaves the decision very open for judges whenever a case would be brought before them covered by the act. I know laws are often written like this to "cover all the possibilities" but it usually ends up with varying judgements depending on whether the judge is a conservative or a liberal. (Or, heaven forbid, it's an election year!)

And with anime and manga, there would be a serious argument that since it's not photography but printed art, that it would be easy to change the image so that the characters don't appear so young. (This is an argument someone tried to use against me.) There's a general misconception that because a character isn't a "real person", alterations are relatively simple and cheap to do. But if the person involved is a real, live breathing person, it's expensive and extremely difficult to reshoot and "age" them either through clothing or makeup.

And another problem is that most images of Asians, either real people or anime characters, tend to look young in Western eyes. (A common complaint among my friends who went to school or work on the mainland.) Granted, with medicines and makeup and such, it's getting even more difficult to determine ages, but people still try to use visual clues to determine a person's age. A friend who's a year older than me, looks like she's barely into high school and it doesn't help that she's a petite girl who's not exactly well-endowed. Okay, I havn't seen her naked but I bet if she was naked and in such an image, it would definitely be cited as showing "a minor".

Now I believe that a law like this is necessary, but in it's current form, it's unacceptable. And it's best to catch it now rather than after it's passed. I know in Hawaii, they only just passed an adjustment to the law that raised the age of consent from 16 to 14. I've known the age of consent was 14 ever since I was 12 and I know the law was passed way before that. The problem with laws that involve sex-related crimes is that often people are very reluctant to change them even when they should be changed. (That and the normal bureaucracy fun and games.) Okay, I think that's my long post for the day. You can now return to your regularly scheduled reading...

Sorry about that, I’m not firing on all cylinders today. Tired and not feeling well. Probably why my responses seem so wordy today.

Actually, I finally remembered why I keep thinking this hasn’t been passed yet. I studied it for a debate in college! It hadn’t been passed yet at that time so it’s sorta stuck in my mind as “hasn’t been passed yet”.

[This message has been edited by ekylo (edited 11-01-2001).]

I just read the article and agree with Sirkin. This law does seem extremely vague. That means most anime is a target for the CPPA.

For example:

Card Captor Sakura: Tomoyo would be a big no-no. A little girl is in love with another little girl.

Pokemon: Misty's clothes.

Nadia: A sexy-looking fourteen year old girl.

Plastic Little: Teenaged girls get naked and one laments about the size of her breasts.

Video Girl Ai: If the Japanese censored it, no telling how it would be mangled by this law.

Gunbuster: After reading horror stories about the nude scenes being edited in Britan, who says it can happen here.

I think most (if not ALL) non adult anime would fall under scrutiny. As for adult anime, I don't want to think about. Speaking of which, was Rall released here long ago. The lolicon character would make it impossible to release here now.

Just great, after condemning the show of Teletubbies as a promoter of gay lifestyle (p.s. I hate Teletubbies ^_^, but my little bros. watch it), they now try to cross my turf…Damn this, if I was an American, I will make sure that Mr. Asscrap will not have the last laugh…Pardon my crude words, but it irritates me to no end when the extreme right-wing tries to adopt some censorship laws in the society. I just hope that FSC will succeed on revoking that particular law or modify it in some extent.

quote:
Originally posted by Kumiko Kamiyama:
There are more extreme examples... and yes, the Cream Lemon dubs of Rall, Star Trap, and three of the second series OVAs (Evil Doll, White Shadow, and Astalot) are all still available right now. Urotsukidoji (Legend of the Overfiend) was prosecuted in Texas - the prosecutor lost the case, though.

Astalot's in english? What title is it available under (if they changed it).

It's not impossible to release such things, though - it's just tricky. Basically, popular works like Ranma or Tenchi are controversial for obvious reasons, but it's also true that the American market has changed as we become more aware of other cultures and values. A great deal of adult versions of stories with underage characters proliferate on eBay and other obvious sites, so it isn't hard to find such works.

CPM (at least on the copy of Lady Blue I rented) had a small thing at the begining explaining Anime to newbies (sailor suits, big eyes, nudity, etc). I wish more anime companies would do this.


Frankly, even the conservative groups have been extremely uncomfortable about the current wording of the law - they didn't consider how it might be interpreted, and naturally they don't want someone else telling them what they can and cannot think or view, either. This is really a case where the law was written by people who simply did not consider all possible ramifications - that's unfortunate, since it's expensive to get it revised, but we can be hopeful that rational heads will prevail.


The CPPA sounds good in theory (protecting kids from exploitation) but it is mired in vague wording. Under the law as it is now even Michealangelo's David could be seen as obsene. I think clearer heads will prevail(I hope so, at least).

[This message has been edited by Kumiko Kamiyama (edited 11-02-2001).]


quote:
Originally posted by Mecha00:
CPM (at least on the copy of Lady Blue I rented) had a small thing at the begining explaining Anime to newbies (sailor suits, big eyes, nudity, etc). I wish more anime companies would do this

When I first ran across a video with this, I thought it was a very good idea also. I don't think it should be on everything but just the explanation they went through is a good basic intro into various themes and concepts presented in anime. Great for beginers but a fast-forward for many of the rest of us. Hmm, I just had an image pop into my mind of a courtroom filled with people as that little intro is played...followed by an image of a tentacle attack. I have a strange imagination at times. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Hmm, I didn’t realize it was that inaccurate. It has been awhile since I viewed it. Like I said, I tend to fast-forward over it since then. I wonder if any of the one’s in my collection have it…

But some of it they did have to say it in those ways. The “junior college” angle is the same cover up as the “all character’s depicted are over 18 years of age…” We know that’s not true but the intro is aimed for those who probably don’t have the language background to catch it when the character’s say their actual ages in Japanese. (I mean, “Buffy the Vampire Slayer” has a whole bunch of vulgarities and such that get through, mainly because they’re British vulgarities that an American censor either didn’t understand the reference or thought it was okay because the American public wouldn’t understand them.) After all, they have to give some kind of plausable explanation as to why all the girls getting molested are in those “sailor uniforms” without getting in trouble for depiciting sex acts with minors.

And the hair color, well, I know growing up, that was sometimes the only way we could tell characters apart. And I’m not really sure how in depth they could have gone behind the symbolisms of colors. I remember watching a video with friends in college and I had the hardest time explaining why everyone in the video was wearing white to a funeral and why red was used in a wedding scene.

Then again, maybe they thought us horny American’s would fast forward through it anyways to get to the “good parts” of the video.

Oh and as a side-subject, one of the comics I picked up today at the store was a new #1 of La Blue Girl - Manga. The artwork and storyline is slightly different from what I remember from the ones I picked up in college. Has it been re-licensed or is this sort of a “storyline refresh”?

Update: the law has finally been overturned.

Ah! That was good news indeed . Now, adult bishoujo gmaes with lolicon characters won’t be “illegal” to play after all

quote:
Originally posted by Kumiko Kamiyama:
If the law remains as it is currently worded, you have extreme censorship of freedom of artistic expression - that includes a great deal of anime, manga, and gaming, as well as artistic works from countries other than Japan. It is critical that the Free Speech Coalition (FSC) be successful in having the wording of the law revised and clarified.

Not just from countries outside japan. the child porn protection act is also being reviewed IN Japan later this year, and depending on how that one's resolved you're going to see a lot of change in the industry for anime, manga (esp doujin), and gaming there as well.

will do a more indepth coverage of that later this year.

Another article on that same decision, this time by CNN: http://www.cnn.com/2002/LAW/04/16/scotus.virtual.child.porn/index.html

Yep. the news have been spreading around the net very fast, I see… And of course, most people on any adult webboard have been cheering in a VERY loud way . Wonder what effect this will have on the adult industry and mnay other things in general…

Heh. Someone once told me that there was just a “snowballs chance in Hell” of the law being overthrown. Seems like it must have been a really BIG snowball then

[This message has been edited by Spectator Beholder (edited 04-17-2002).]

Well, Spectator Beholder, that person must not have looked at the law very closely. The law was way too broad and open to too much interpretation that could go against free speech rights. The fact that even non-minors who acted like or appeared to be minors was illegal under this is totally unconstituional. Right-wingers could then claim any girl in a checkered skirt or similar schoolgirl attire to be a depiction of a minor and thus illegal, which would limit the way people could dress. Pigtails make you think of minors? Under the law you’d have been able to bring criminal charges on the gals in pigtails and the folks responsible for publicly posting the images since you could argue that they are portraying a minor.

If my understanding is correct, it is still illegal to alter images of identifiable minors (e.g., Mary-Kate and Ashley fakes are still illegal). Mind you that it wasn’t the premise of the law that was shot down, it was the fact that it could be so widely interpreted that caused it to be struck down.

quote:
Originally posted by Sharpe:
Well, Spectator Beholder, that person must not have looked at the law very closely.

No, he didn't. He just said that he throught that the conservative had too much power and that they would use the bulk of that power to make sure that the law never got changed (generaly, people tend to not like changes in the society, even through it always changes in one way or another, anyway). Therfore he throught of it as a "snowball's chance in hell"

Japan’s reviewing their law as well (no doubt in tandem with their U.S. counterparts), and the main crux of the revision falls under the definition of ‘child’. Currently a child is anyone below the age of 18, but so far the law doesn’t cover anime, manga, and games. They’re considering whether to do so later this year, and should the unlikely happen (that is, all minors portrayed in ANY form be above 18), think abt the implications it’ll have on the industries.

Frightening even to think of how many games are affected (Green Green, Wind-breath of heart, Air, Kanon etc). As for manga and anime, think Video Girl Ai.