Macross VS Robotech

Nargrakhan · April 19, 2012, 4:13am

Up to date info on the drama. Source: http://www.tabletopgamingnews.com/2012/03/14/56341/

When Harmony Gold finally loses this, we can get Macross 7 and Macross Frontier in God damn America, and the stupid live action Robotech film can die forever. :evil:

metalsifter wrote:
March 15, 2012 at 6:44 am
I would love to see this come to fruition but I think it will be much harder than they think to get a license, otherwise it would have been done a long time ago with the Battletech “unseen” mechs.

Getting a license for these isn’t just about going through Harmony Gold or Palladium. You also have to go to the original IP holders, Studio Nue.

I had an opportunity to speak with Shoji Kawamori a few years ago about why more Macross series don’t reach the USA and he specifically cited the legal issues with HG.

The short version is, apparently HG feels they “own” everything that was in Robotech (as thought they invented everything about it) and can do whatever they want, which just isn’t the case.

I really want this to get made, but I think they might have an easier time to make it a Macross game and get Studio Nue involved.

Just look at how much Robotech IP has been released VS how much Macross IP. There is far more Macross material out there than Robotech.

Macross is a much stronger IP and has a larger worldwide following than Robotech.

Devillin wrote:
March 16, 2012 at 6:53 am
That must have been before the more recent court rulings. As I understand them Studio Nue and Big West has the rights to the original Macross only inside of Japanese territory, while HG has all of the international rights. SN and BW has the international rights to any Macross derivatives, provided that they don’t share any designs or characters with the original series. If any designs or characters come from the original series, the new one then falls under HG’s control. That’s why for newer shows like Macross Frontier, UN Spacy is now NUNS; they try not to call the ships Macross, they give them a longer name; and if a Macross does show up, it is based on the DYRL ship, and not the original.
So while it is convoluted, it pretty much comes down to: US/International Rights to original Macross: HG. Japanese Rights: SN/BW. Southern Cross and Mospeada designs are owned entirely by HG.

metalsifter wrote:
March 16, 2012 at 12:27 pm
I know HG thinks and asserts they have rights to Macross outside of Japan, but that’s just what they are asserting. The legal battle there has stalled, it’s not finished yet.

SN and BW created Macross so they “own” the designs, it’s just that licensing outside of Japan is done (for now) by HG under the name Robotech.

BW and SN are trying to regain control of their property from HG, but HG sees it as being “theirs” since they edited and spliced 3 shows together. So they feel they have created a unique property, which they haven’t.

As for ships being called “Macross”, most all of the larger ones have Macross in their names. Macross Quarter, Macross Frontier, Macross 7 etc. Although some of the newer ships do use their “class” as a name as well like Battle Frontier and Battle Galaxy.

The reason the newer shows haven’t been shown outside of Japan to any great degree is because HG doesn’t want anything competing with Robotech and they drag out a legal battle whenever a new series is made to prevent any other series from being released. I’m not sure what happened to allow Macross Plus to be released in the USA though (I’d have to look that up).

Devillin wrote:
March 16, 2012 at 10:09 pm
Macross Plus and Macross II were special cases. 1) HG’s Robotech division was effectively asleep at the wheel and wasn’t paying much attention to anything after the Sentinel’s animation crash and burned. I remember hearing that HG had maybe 2 people working it at that time. 2) Because they were asleep, HG didn’t realize at the time that the license they had purchased back in the 80?s covered all follow-up properties outside of Japan. However, once they realized the situation, they slammed ADV and the other video company into redoing their video license with them. That’s why other than the VHS and DVD videos, no other US merchandise has come out for those two properties that don’t have HG’s name on it somewhere. Ironically, you can thank FASA for waking up HG as to what their license actually entitled them to. If FASA hadn’t sued Playmates over the Madcat and Exo-Squad designs, HG would have stuck with making land deals and just let Robotech expire.

metalsifter wrote:
March 17, 2012 at 9:09 am
And that’s part of the wedge that BW and Sn are using to try and regain control of their property.

HG are squatters, I’ve even heard lawyers talk about them in that respect. They had the license for ages and have done nothing with it.

Part of the agreement with HG was that they can license items off the Robotech series, but cannot create “new” material using the original “macross” terminology or mecha etc.

Which is why Robotech Sentinels and Robotech Shadow Chronicles had nothing from the Macross series in it, none of the mechs at all. The only names they used were the “Americanized” names of Rick Hunter, Lisa Hayes etc.

That’s another part of the wedge, if HG has the rights they claim they do, why didn’t they use those right s to include Macross material in those sequels and additional properties?

“Because they forgot, or didn’t realize they could” is not a legitimate answer or legal defense.

It shows that HG knew of a limitation in their license and were following it, now they claim that imitation either was never there or was misinterpreted.

Either way , they have acknowledged that there are limitations to their so called “ownership” of Macross properties and that those rights remain with BW/SN.

The only reason they are fighting so hard now, after years of doing nothing with the property, is the interest in wargames might reignite interest in a new series; which HG does NOT at all have the rights to do especially if they try to use Macross properties in any new show. That combines with the renewed efforts by BW/SN to try and regain their property from what are essentially squatters.

HG had a license, for years they have done nothing with it, SN?BW want it back since Macross and everything else it contains is their property. They created it and HG is trying to steal it out from under them.

Devillin wrote:
March 18, 2012 at 2:31 am
In essence, everything you said is right. My clarification is that HG own the distribution rights, not the creation rights. If they really wanted to, and didn’t mind pissing everybody off, they could technically repackage every Macross series since the original with new names and dialogue, and call it Robotech. They have the rights to do that, and in essence, that is what their rights enable them to do and there is nothing BW/SN can do about that. Could you imagine the $#!tstorm that would open up or both sides of the Pacific if they did that? The company may be lazy, but they aren’t that stupid.

Now the flip side is, they own the rights, creation and distribution, to Southern Cross and Mospeada lock, stock, and ink pen. They can take those characters and mecha, as is, and do anything they want with them. They can put them in new situations, modify them, whatever they want. And that is exactly what they are doing.

I just wish they were better at writing contracts. This deal with the live action movie was just dumb. I could see waiting a bit on the second movie, but they should be doing more on the comic book front. At the very least, they could show us what happened in their new version of The Sentinels.

metalsifter wrote:
March 18, 2012 at 12:39 pm
Hg does not, in any way, have rights to any of the other Macross properties such as Macross Zero, Frontier, 7 etc.

I specifically asked Shoji Kawamori about that when I met him. The HG license only pertains to the SDF Macross and it’s use in Robotech saga and related merchandising.

That’s one of the issues surrounding the live-action movie, HG doesn’t have the right to make one according tho their license, but since they feel that they “own” Robotech and it is now a separate entity to Macross HG thinks they can do whatever they want.

Just because HG says or thinks they have the rights to do something doesn’t mean they do. On the other side, just because the Japanese studios involved are not a litigious as HG doesn’t mean they aren’t planning or preparing a legal battle.

Ericridge · April 20, 2012, 4:24am

Wait what? Robotech is Macross?
I’ve never paid robotech any attention cuz of name. robot tech yay

And this HG in question is Harmony Gold USA?

And jackasses like them is preventing me from being able to read Super Dimension Fortress Macross the First manga?

If HG is a problem, why don’t they just err release translated stuff in japan and let fans import it from japan and watch HG fume or won’t that work? I know importing is kinda expensive. but. I don’t get it, why is HG annoying? All this makes me think HG only cares about the money and fans can go suck a egg.

Well, if that’s true then HG can go jump off a skyscraper and bother us no more.

I want to read more of Super Dimension Fortress Macross the first. I went nuts over first volume.

Lancer-X · April 22, 2012, 10:00pm

Robotech (the original show) is sort of an amalgamation of Macross, Southern Cross and Genesis Climber Mospeada for the first, second and third seasons respectively, with a new plot dubbed over the top.

Anyway I don’t blame them for doing this early on- Macross (and the other shows) escaped relatively unscathed plot-wise compared to some of the other stuff released overseas at the time (poor, poor Gatchaman) and I’m sure they had reasons at the time. Of course, Robotech was a product of that generation and has no place in this one, especially if it’s stopping other things related to the original titles from being released.

If you can call it Japanese animation, it was the first Japanese animation I watched, so I still have fond memories of it. Got the boxed set when it came out on DVD a number of years ago.

Doug · April 26, 2012, 4:04am

Lynn Minmei isn’t as irritating in Macross as she is in robotech AND she has a bigger repertoire Song wise.

Nargrakhan · April 27, 2012, 1:51am

She has more songs, for sure, but I think she’s just annoying. Still a cocktease Chinese girl who doesn’t win the Japanese boy because she’s too busy playing idol mind games and has a cockblocking cousin with the hots for her.

Aside from names, visual designs, the definition of Protoculture, Deculture versus Culture, story pacing, the songs, origin of the Zentradi, who built the SDF, why the war started in the first place, what humanity does after the war, what aliens are encountered after the war, the whole MOSPEADA/Southern Cross thing, and dozens upon dozens of other things… Robotech and Macross are basically the same things.

Okay… maybe not.

EDIT
Seriously though… I never liked the Macross 7 series. It was so… whimsical… the whole, flying mecha with musical instrument controls. So stupid. Don’t get me started on the Evil and Protodeviln thing. :roll: I preferred the Macross II version for a Zentran/Meltran origin. Still has the “music mind control” – but with much less stupidity as to why it works that way.

Macross Frontier just dumped the whole thing (thank God) and used a new alien race… though it never explained how and where the Vajra fit with the Protoculture Republic…

Nargrakhan · May 1, 2012, 4:21am

Interesting news: Namco Bandai has been moving around the net, closing down the more obvious illegal down sites that have Macross material on them. Expect YouTube to be deleting various episodes, song rips, movies over the next few months. A lot of fans are going to cry foul and call Namco Bandai corporate monsters, but the first step in preparing a legal battle for copyrights is proving you have taken steps to protect the IP you claim to own…

Also interesting that Namco Bandai – not Big West – is the legal entity sending the letters.

Ericridge · May 2, 2012, 4:20am

Big West, who’s that?

Nargrakhan · May 2, 2012, 7:18am

Big West is the Japanese company that owns the Macross series. It co-created the original with Tatsunoko and Studio Nue – major Japanese animation studios. Back in the 80’s Tatsunoko granted Harmony Gold a US license for Macross without an expiration date. Harmony Gold then created the first season to Robotech with it (basically a commercial fanfic of Macross).

During 2000, Big West (with Studio Nue) and Tatsunoko had a major lawsuit about who owned Macross, and could make sequel and/or earn royalties for it. Big West won all the important matters in that case. Therefore the contract between Tatsunoko and Harmony Gold was not valid on these grounds. Big West (with Studio Nue) is now in legal strife with Harmony Gold (those comments in the first post), to recall their US license.

Bandi Namco is the current “distributor” Big West has given permission to advertise and sell for the Macross series. It seems they’ve also been chosen to be the US license holder for Macross, when the legal fight is done.

Current side effects to Harmony Gold front: the mecha, naming conventions, and character designs from Macross are not allowed to be used in their future Robotech projects. Case in point: Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles does not use them (it’s all MOSPEADA stuff). In addition, AnimEigo has stopped production of those Japanese original Macross DVD, which it licensed from Harmony Gold… who obviously does not have the right to do that.

It has been noted that Palladium Books – who got a license from Harmony Gold to make a pen-and-paper RPG - is ignoring the situation. They continue to sell Robotech material with Macross stuff in it. No one knows what the hell is going on there… or when a C&D will be sent over that.

It’s pretty obvious that Big West will win the case, over who owns Macross in the US. They do… because the original author, character designers, and dev crew still work with them. The matter if Robotech’s Macross saga is original enough to still be owned by Harmony Gold is not so certain. That’s probably the part of the legal issue Harmony Gold is fearing over and fighting back so hard about.

No one knows the date when Big West (or Bandai Namco) will fill the official court papers and have this battle fought. However with Big West getting more $$$ from their recent Macross Frontier success in Asia, it’s going to be sooner than later. They wanna sell that series in the US.

Ericridge · May 3, 2012, 1:52am

Cool thanks, I hope it happens in reasonable time, cuz I can’t wait to read the Super Dimension Fortress Macross the First manga, tho, its more likely anime will come over here. I’m more of an reader xD

Nargrakhan · June 7, 2012, 2:51pm

Two cute Macross 7 skits. A little background for the uninitiated: Max and Milia are the same duo from the classical Macross. Macross 7 takes place 35 years later. Since that time, Max and Milia had seven children, but ended up with a ruined marriage. It’s insinuated that all they ever did was fight (unsurprising considering how they met), and have repeated makeup sex after really heated arguments (hence the numerous kids). At the start of Macross 7, the two live apart… though hints they still love each other remain. In any case, cute insight as to what they do in their not-so-divorced lives.

Maximilian Jenius and Milia Fallyna Jenius