I must say that I have a bad taste in my mouth from IGN as it is, but for them to say this and to top it off, they did a review of Tokimeki. Granted the guy who did it needs to be shot, but they did review it. Hrer is the link http://pc.ign.com/articles/167/167264p1.html I hve been very displeased with them for some time, but I was insolted when I read this, kids (who says he is unbiast), (bad spelling) article. He obviously had no clue as to what the game was about and then he has to point directly at the worst part of the game. "See, Peach Princess seems to have no problem with featuring nonconsensual scenes in its games – hell, how’s this for a multiple-choice question:
1. Rape Ayumi. 2. Don’t rape Ayumi.
Seriously, you’re offered that option. And that’s just the worst example – there are plenty of other sequences where you’re able to observe rape, let it happen, et cetera." How about mentioning the fact that you also get the choice of STOPING the rape. Ohh I’m sorry I forgot, the point of reviewing a game is to make sure no one understands what the game is realy about. Anyways I will just say that I will never EVER take anything they say about a game siriusly. Plz, I ask all those of you who read this article and feel the same way I do, stop going to that trash of a site and tell all your friends. I’ve tried to ask them why the game got such a bad review and I got no reply. What does that say to you. They don’t care that there may be some ppl out there that actually think this type of game is entertaining. Ok I’m crawling out of the box now, sorry, but plz go read the article and and see for your selfs what I am talking about.
Sorry for the rant
[This message has been edited by trunten (edited 03-10-2002).]
[This message has been edited by trunten (edited 03-10-2002).]
It took this review to lure Stamos out of lurker status and into the light.
Harsh, harsh, harsh. That review was nothing but. But was it really necessary? This guy not only tore into TCI, but saw fit to rip PeaPri a new one. This review upset me because this is the same attitude most people will take towards a game like this.
Not a whole lot of people want to admit they enjoy “cartoon porn” and even less people are going to pay money for it. I hate to say it, but it seems rather unlikely that the bishoujo genre is going to catch on here if reviews like this are anything to go by.
quote:Originally posted by Tv'sJohnStamos: It took this review to lure Stamos out of lurker status and into the light.
Harsh, harsh, harsh. That review was nothing but. But was it really necessary? This guy not only tore into TCI, but saw fit to rip PeaPri a new one. This review upset me because this is the same attitude most people will take towards a game like this.
Not a whole lot of people want to admit they enjoy "cartoon porn" and even less people are going to pay money for it. I hate to say it, but it seems rather unlikely that the bishoujo genre is going to catch on here if reviews like this are anything to go by.
I could not agree more on that point. The way US ppl are is just sad. We are so afraid os the word sex, and yet it drives the economy. "Sex sells" But if anyone outside of the web were to say, "I like hentai, and Bishoujo games", that person would be crucified. I wish we were not so closed minded. I can only hope that by teaching my children (wich I don't have any) that sex is OK, as long as you are informed. Then maybe, just maybe we might start to open up a little.
brr that review was downright negative, not to mention that the guy’s very sarcastic in his review too… He’s not even trying to review Tokimeki Check-In from a neutral stance but rather speaks in a hateful way about it, and he’s also only pointing out the “bad” things about the game. This guy who reviewed it shouldn’t even call himself a reviewer
Beleeve it or not, Kumiko, I have tried several times to post on there BBS boards about how unjustified the review was for the game. I also tried to explain that just because the game was meant for adults that did not mean that it had 2 strikes against it already. It was very unprofesional for the writer to make all the comments without knowign the facts and I would almost say that he was beeing rather prejiduce (excuse the spelling) about the game just because it had adult content. God forbid, if the game had been a online RPG with some quick but suddle nudity, I bet the whole thing would have taken the game of the year award. Sfter I posted several mssgs on the boards I started to notice that with-in 5 minutes of posting something the mssg would be deleted by the Admin. Five times this happend. I then typed a mssg saying that it was not right for them to delete my mssgs because I was disagreeing with the review, and that it was not fair for them to allow something bad to be said about a company, and then turn around and not allow others to post their opinions. Of coarse this post was deleted in what I would call record time it took less than 2 minutes to delete it. Only 1 person saw the post and he agreed with me, but of coarse good luck finding his post. (It was deleted too) I hope that all of you reading this will try to do as I did and try to put in your $.02 in. The more ppl try to say the truth about how unprofesional the review was maybe they will not be able to delete all of them in time. Maybe then some one else will see the truth… That just because it’s meant for adults it does not mean that it is for Perverts, Molestors or any other bad thing he meant when he said: "When the revolution comes, people like these will be on the wrong end of the napalm gun, Takuya Fujima’s going to have his finger on the trigger, and I’ll be cackling maniacally from behind my copy of Festival." Oh and by the way I don’t call myself a profesional, but when you write reviews for a living. Is proper grammer not a requierment. I know that I have no room to talk, but I am not the one that does this for a living. IGN can b@#$ me. Sorry I got carried away with my profesionalism
It comes to no surprise to me, as this David Smith wrote also this (though chronologically the TCI “review” came first, I read this one first) “review” of Love Hina.
Looks like IGN is going on the hate pages on my site. Seriously, the people writing this crap only show their idoicy to those in the know. The worst part is that there are people who actually pay subscriptions for the trash at IGN.
quote:Originally posted by fxho: It comes to no surprise to me, as this David Smith wrote also this (though chronologically the TCI "review" came first, I read this one first) "review" of Love Hina.
*sigh* when I see this, I seriously have to wonder why they choose such a idiot to do the review of Love *hina and Tokimeki check-In, when he obsviosly is one of those anti-anime guys? [img]http://216.40.201.240/s/contrib/sarge/Disappointed_anim.gif[/img]
I’m not about to pay any money to post this to IGN’s forums (are you sure that’s not why your posts there were bounced, trunten?), but if I were going to post there, this is what I’d say…
Smith’s moral objection to some of the content of some bishoujo games is admirable, I suppose (if you’re Joe Lieberman). However, the problem with Smith’s reviews is that he clearly comes from the same self-loathing school of anime/manga “fandom” as Pulp magazine - that is, he has inexplicably decided to make a living (or at least pursue a large portion of his life) based upon manga and anime, but he is apparently either deeply ashamed of his fandom or he genuinely hates it and thinks no one should like it, and thus has decided to dedicate his efforts to making sure no one can enjoy it. To these people, manga is only cool if it’s a Garo-style post-modern deconstructionist work that actively points out how lousy manga and anime really are, or if it’s loaded with so much perverse sex and violence that it might as well be an R. Crumb cartoon.
Look, I love music passionately, but I really can’t stand rap. So if I was writing reviews of the latest Nas and Outkast CDs, clearly people are going to get the impression that rap in general sucks. Just 'cause I don’t like something doesn’t mean other people shouldn’t, and that, my friends, is why I don’t write rap reviews. (I write manga reviews instead – see below for shameless plug )
Since IGN boasts a relatively large readership (who pay for the service, which lends an apparently undeserved legitimacy to it all), to allow David Smith to write these reviews is, at the very least, terribly irresponsible journalism – considering the currently floundering state of the US bishoujo game import industry, and the way IGN appears to reach a lot more people (and thus affect a lot more opinions) than the bishoujo game importers themselves (who were denied representation on this website), Smith’s reviews are actively helping to kill an entire legal industry and totally deny its fans (whose mating prowess or lack thereof are irrelevant and none of Mr. Smith’s business) access to their entertainment of choice.
Yes, Mr. Smith, there are people out there who like cartoon porn. You don’t, and that’s fine. Review something else. I, for one, think IGN (and other websites that take on the responsibility of reviewing entertainment) should adopt the approach of the All-Music Guide - that is, review entertainment on its own genre’s terms, so that fans of that genre can judge whether or not it’s a good example of that genre. It is much more helpful to readers to ask the question “Is this a good bishoujo game?” than to simply state "All bishoujo games are sick smut, so it doesn’t matter whether this one is good or not."
I’m not even going to address Mark Fujita’s reply since it is is so obviously at odds with business practices of the IGN site - that is, using sex in every, way shape and form to help increase readership. For heaven’s sake, the “For Men” section of the site considers this news:
quote:IGN For Men Library news : Thumb through the archives of babes, cars, dating, booze, and more.
Hmm… For all David Smith’s complaining about the drunken naked chicks in Tokimeki Check-in, they seem a main staple on the IGN site. Consider what else was posted as headline worthy:
quote:Where’s Babe of the Day? Its got a fancy pants new name and now lives on IGN FilmForce!
Babes of Videogames IGN editors pick the hottest videogame babes for all the major systems.
Babes of E3 Take a look at our bootytastic rundown of the only REAL reason to attend the E3.
Babes of Sci-Fi They can probe our nether-regions anytime!
Tell me again Mr. Fujita about adult oriented content driving away the younger readers…
But back to David Smith for the moment. Okay, so he automatically wrote off the games from the start - that much is obvious, but can he at least be intelligent about his dislike? Consider this statement:
quote: The most interesting thing about the way this sort of game is designed is that, depending on how you play it, you could finish the story without encountering anything more naughty than a lot of bad breast jokes.
Umm, yes… hence the catagorization of TCI as a game and not a visual novel. A game is not a setting where you blithely run around with no threat of undesireable outcomes. If anything, the challenge and fun comes from trying to avoid bad endings. If the same thing happened no matter the choices you made, it wouldn’t be a game.
And let’s face it, sometimes bad things are programmed into games. Think back to the classic FF7 (immediate spoiler up ahead), considered one of the great PC ports of all time. As you come to the end of disk 1, what happens? Poor little Aeris gets a katana through the gullet. Lucky for the weak of heart, there’s no splurting blood, but having one of the main members (and the best magic user!) in your party taken out in such a manner is not a high point. And better still, there is no way to avoid. Bad things happen. We live with it and move on to disk two.
Same thing with Extinction (PS2). All I played was the demo, but I got to see my partner eaten by these giant, roach-like things, then gruesomely transformed into some alien flesh eating zombie thing. But this is supposed to be way more fun than naked men and women having sex, right?
quote: Topping it all off, the plot threads are sewn very sloppily together, such that some forks later in the story won’t lead anywhere but wasted time if you didn’t make the appropriate set-up decisions earlier on… And that is your goal, right? To get in the sack with these girls? Well, in theory, I guess… For my part, I can crack open my copy of Satoshi Urushihara Cell Works and get better filth for less effort, and with far fewer moral hangups.
Clearly, he does not understand that getting into character is part of the bishoujo gaming process. You don’t approach the story as a horny American 25 year old, looking to “bang” everything that crosses your path. You assume the role of Takayuki, a college grad forced to take on the role of ryoukan manager. For success, you have to “become” him.
As for random effects changing outcomes, it may not be as random as he thinks. Remember, time is passing as you play. The characters are not going to remain stationary until you come across them. They go about their business in the inn. Spend too much time mopping the floor, and you miss your chance to talk with them. That’s rather realistic in my opinion.
quote: – there are plenty of other sequences where you’re able to observe rape, let it happen, et cetera. This is not cool. I may own some specimens of apalling filth in my personal doujinshi collection, but there’s a big black line drawn down the middle of my preferences, and violence is firmly planted on the opposite side.
Once again, see my comments about bad things two paragraphs up. And while I applaud the fact that he’s so very anti-violence, I don’t have much respect for anyone who takes the stance that his way of thinking, is the one-and-only RIGHT way of thinking. And if you think he was being fair for even a moment, read his closing comment:
quote:In summation, Peach Princess can take its Lovely Angel Fantasy Tonight and shove it. When the revolution comes, people like these will be on the wrong end of the napalm gun, Takuya Fujima’s going to have his finger on the trigger, and I’ll be cackling maniacally from behind my copy of Festival. There will be no loss to the world in this event – hell, these guys’ production is so amateurish they can’t even get their text to wrap correctly. Half the lines in Tokimeki trail off the edge of the dialogue window.
I can respect someone not liking a bishoujo game, and I think he has a legitimate gripe about the text wrapping problems, but he’s so busy doling out what he considers winning “hate-icisms,” that he can’t really criticize the game. He just fumbles through stating that he doesn’t like anime character designs ('cause he seems to hate those – I mean, “mutant hair?!”) and that he finds the Japanese aesthetics loathsome.
Kumiko, the next time you want to send out an evaluation copy of a game, please consider me before IGN. I, for one, actually like the genre, and would gladly post a fair review.
I know no one here knows the answer but, how in the world is this David Smith a TokiMemo fan? T’would seem to me anyone who is a fan would have less of a problem with Love Hina and TCI since both products feature some guy in an improbable situation (i.e. Tokimemo-any girl you come across will almost certainly date you and Keitaro living with several girls who all want him).
I had a big writeup for this, but now I’ll have to simplify it:
First, I suspect ign’s attitude is most nearly analagous to “The Man Show”, celebrating the unique immaturity of “guyhood”, but not truly past their “girls have cooties” phase.
About David Smith- he’s the wrong person to review TCI, but not because he gave TCI a bad review. He’s a newbie, and TCI isn’t a terribly newbie-friendly game. It’s deeply immersed in the design philosophies of the genre, and you can’t expect a newcomer to be able to grasp them right away, any more then you could expect an FPS newcomer to know how to circle-strafe.
That said, his last few paragraphs are inflammatory and insulting, with no basis for these comments other then that the content was not to his liking- exceedingly bad critical form.
quote:Originally posted by fxho: It comes to no surprise to me, as this David Smith wrote also this (though chronologically the TCI "review" came first, I read this one first) "review" of Love Hina.
Is this the review where he said anime fans like to have sex with their mothers. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/mad.gif[/img]
My, my, what an abusive little piece of writing (or ranting, which ever way you look at it). [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
I believe the six-floor building the chap was talking about is LaOX, and the entire floor dedicated to adult games is the basement. But frankly, you WON'T find Diablo, Nobunaga's Ambition etc in one dinky corner because they're all on another floor--yes, an entire floor dedicatd to mainstream PC games! Besides, it's hard to find shops, if any, that'll put mainstream stuff together with adult ones.
I won't say I'm a big fan of Tokimeki Checkin!, but have to admit I have no clue what the reviewer was trying to prove, not when two-thirds about the criticism isn't directed at the game itself, but the makers and the culture behind it. But then again, never had high regards for IGN.com, never will, I guess. Evidently they think it's okay so long as IGN readers are drooling over wallpapers of scantily clad "Dead or Alive" lasses in suggestive poses that they posted on their website.
As for the Tokimemo bit, well, I'm a huge Tokimemo fan myself--since the early days of Shiori--but even fans know where the difference ends. The audience may overlap, but they're two very diff industries, and you just have to look at it that way.
To be honest, I don't like two-thirds of the adult bishoujo titles -- esp stuff that's nothing more than the adult AV material. But I guess the guy should've put things into perspective--if a game sucks, it sucks. I recall how I slammed "Cobra Mission" (anyone remember that one?) when it came out, for it's innane plot and stupid lines, but that doesn't mean one should shoot the entire industry.
What about Kana, Kanon, Air, Comic Party, Pia Carrot e Youkoso etc? I wonder how much this David chap knows about them to comment on the state of the PC bishoujo ind and their fans. Put it this way, Alicesoft's "Daiakuji" has some of the sickest CG I've seen, and it's a nasty title with a despicable guy for a hero. But you can slam the game on a moral basis, but still have to admit that it's one of the most replayable game out there, and it isn't b'cos of the sex and gore.
IGN has, time and time, featured game previews on Japanese bishoujo games like Tokimeki Memorial and Memories Off. But if their approach is always to be so lukewarm, and the coverage continues so that their writers can have something to swipe at--the "our game industries are more grown-up than theirs" mentality at work, I suppose--then we're better off not having any of them on IGN then. Better leave readers ignorant than having them misled.
I guess we should all be going back to our mindless FPS and countless C&C look-a-likes, and leave all the crappy storylines to Hollywood.
[This message has been edited by yyoshi (edited 03-10-2002).]
Okay, since you can’t post on the Tokimeki Board they ahve at IGN, the next best thing would be to email the IGN editors about the serious, and inflamitory anti-Japanese sentiments in the review.
Seriously, it does us little good to bitch on PeaPri’s BBS. Please, email IGN.
I’ve often thought the exact same thing. I refuse to believe that Best Buy or any place similar is going to sell Adult games even if there were truckloads of money to be had.
quote:Originally posted by Soul Dragon: With the way he slamed the game, I wonder if this guy knows how to treat a girl. Let alone if this guy has EVER had a girl at all!
Now, no need to get too personal. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Anyway, I've already sent an emila to IGN over the lack of professionalism in the review. Doubt they'd give a hoot, though.
That's the problem--writers who don't know enough are getting their stories across and shaping the opinions of the reading public (we've had the Mainichi article, and now this), and that's not good.
[This message has been edited by yyoshi (edited 03-10-2002).]
Well, regardless of what we all think of IGN’s lack of professionalism, we have to think of what we should do now… From what we’ve seen here, it seems like IGN doesn’t care about adult Peach Princess, its customers or even their own customers, so the point is: Should we even bother about IGN any longer? Since they obsvously rejects us, why care about them, then?
quote:Originally posted by Spectator Beholder: (...)Should we even bother about IGN any longer? Since they obsvously rejects us, why care about them, then?
Because they're giving misinformations to their customers, who may be interested otherwise by the bishoujo genre.
