Jacksprat1, thanks for your comments. Yes, we knew about all this going in. I told Will, this game has too many issues and fans hate it when we alter content for any reason, but Will was really eager to have fans play the game, and of course to get “secondary use” out of their IP they’d spent 5 years (!) making.
[quote=“jacksprat1”]
The fact that we are getting games like Starless and Littlewitch Romanesque 99.7% uncensored is something of a small miracle that I’m very grateful for. It shows JAST is dedicated to the artistic integrity of the medium and respects its fans enough to reach out to them over changes that clearly weren’t their druthers to begin with. I know some people will miss the removed content, but it is what it is, and I appreciate the forthrightness with which this was handled.
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Happily no changes were made at all to Littlewitch Romanesque. (Or to the vast majority of our titles…)
He can’t for the same reason he has to cut the content in the first place. If Jast officially releases a patch, legally it’s basically the same difference as if they’d just released it that way in the original version. The criminal offenses involved all pertain to the “crime” of distribution.
Please do. I played Princess Waltz, and I want more stuff from Pulltop. I could not support what Moenovel did to that game, but I still want the game. Very badly. (Yes, I know there’s an uncensor patch. If I buy the game, then I’m telling MoeNovel to do what they did to more games. So the patch is useless to me, because I do not own that version, and never will.)
Honestly, after the drama involving KK’s censorship five years ago and JAST USA’s unwillingness to undo it, I’m not surprised that you guys are going to censor this. I’ve seen the CGs before, and it definitely seemed like the kind of content that you guys would cut. It’s kinda sad I was able to anticipate something like this.
Unlike five years ago, I’m not going to engage in any “debates” with the forum members here that defend your decision to alter or cut content. I realized that by engaging in prolonged arguments with them, I ended up giving their voices legitimacy, so I’m just going to address just you, Peter. However, by engaging in an argument with you, I also am aware that I risk giving legitimacy to your company’s poorly-construed decision. Therefore, expect this to be my only post on this issue.
I’m not supporting your release. I don’t care about whether you believe depictions of shit, yiffing, or forced penectomies are considered illegal in places like Britland, Euroland, Aussieland, or Jesusland–You know my standards. The fact that you felt it was up to you to “protect” some of us by blanket-censoring the release for all regions instead of letting us be responsible adults and decide for ourselves whether the content is illegal in our respective regions only serves to insult me even more.
Furthermore, you state that most of us will agree that this content is outside of the comfort zone of most fans. I would like to how you got to this conclusion. I don’t recall you making any attempts to study what kind of content we’re willing to tolerate. I don’t ever recall seeing any surveys released on fans’ opinions of “extreme” content. I don’t recall your company having discussions here on what kind of content fans are capable of stomaching. No one here was consulted on their opinions of the content you censored–How am I supposed to believe this decision wasn’t in part because it was outside your comfort zone?
All it takes is for you or one of your staff to be uncomfortable with the content to be justification enough to cut it out. How were you able to come to the conclusion that your fans won’t be able to tolerate such content without injecting what might possibly be your own personal tastes into the localization process?
Potential conflict of personal tastes aside, your company had the license to this title for years, yet you’re coming out now about how you’re censoring this? Gimme a break. If the vanilla but “underage” content in Family Project was enough to make you paranoid back back in 2009, it’s pretty obvious that the “extreme” content in Starless was never going to fly from the very first time you guys saw the CGs.
Nevertheless, regardless of your reasons to wait until now to announce your decision to censor, the mystery still boils down to why you even decided to risk licensing this in the first place, especially considering the fact that the content you aren’t planning on censoring would be just as equally subject to risk of potential legal issues anyways.
However, I’m aware of the possibility that you might have found the content acceptable when you initially acquired the license to this game, but decided to censor it now due to potential recent changes in the political environment, whatever they may be.
If this is true, my response is unchanged–[color=#FF0000]It is still entirely JAST USA’s fault[/color]. This game has been subject to a protracted release schedule. I don’t know what’s been going on inside your company, but the fact that you’ve taken this long highlights the fact that your company has some serious managerial issues in getting games released in a timely manner. The longer you take to release something, the more you expose yourself to changes in the political environment–Your company has done little if nothing to improve this issue.
You’ve already shown that you’re willing to change content due to political developments. What’s going on with other titles that have been on the backburner, like Sumaga, Shiny Days, or LWIII? Are you going to announce that you’re going to censor them later on? It’s nice that you’re taking the time to ensure the best quality localization possible, but I have my limits, especially when it increases the risk of censorship like this happening–There is no reason for me to believe that you’re somehow incapable of achieving a compromise between releasing a quality localization and a timely one.
Unless you are willing to give direct support to these “various fan groups” by giving them the tools they need to release such a theoretical patch after the game’s release and put up a download link to it directly on the game’s sale page, your attempt to reassure disappointed fans is half-assed at best, and apathetic at worst. You said yourself that most fans will agree that the content is outside their comfort zones–Under this assumption, how many “fan groups” would be willing to tackle it in the first place?
There is no certainty that such a patch will come out, and you know it.
Come on now, that’s not fair. Peter has said multiple times that the issue is that he doesn’t want his customers to go to jail. He also doesn’t want to go to jail himself. And some research will bear out that he essentially correct to be afraid of these things. Doing something because of fear of arrest isn’t voluntary.
This is totally different from MoeNovel, who took a game that featured a storyline that depends on the sex - and then decided to censor it to the point it was okay for the 15+ market. Like how Tokyopop censored Initial D - they thought it would sell more aimed at a different demographic, so they voluntarily censored it.
It’s the same company at the top. Same policy. I actually think JAST itself wouldn’t care much.
I guess Outlast devs are all in jail now, I mean, any kid with CC can buy a game on steam where you have dudes balls cut with table saw (genitals are not even censored there), even if Starless scene is even more brutal, it could be put in with original mosaic.
Scat is kinda common fetish, it might be restricted somewhere of course, but not to extent that anyone who takes a shit goes to jail. I also would like to laugh pretty hard if someone would made “sensational” news out of this. I just imagine some male activists crying about how “woman shat on him in a game” xD.
Drawn bestiality is kinda iffy, but I won’t say anything about it, since I don’t know exact laws about it. Its the only one I would kinda agree on because of that.
See the problem here is that the distribution content are made in such way that they are physical copies. These copies will be delivered internationally and for that a company which will shipped such contents outside must be held responsible for any materials that are deemed illegal, according to their domestic laws. I mean this could have been easily avoided if JastUSA decided to release only digital copies, like MangaGamers do, when it comes to extreme or very hardcore contents and let the buyers be held responsible for their own actions. That way, the whole charade of releasing this game cut and clipping lot of the CGs would have been avoided. I believe JastUSA should still have that options where they let the uncut version be distributed digitally (purchase and download, like DLsite) and still release the cut version as physical copies to everyone else. With the digital copy, you can have all kinds of disclaimer and such posted on the website, so that the buyers be aware. This is one of the reason lot of ESRB matured rating games are distributed by sites like Steam and Gamestops, where kids with cc can just go ahead and purchase it, even if they aren’t allowed and they are the only people who will be held responsible for their own actions. Hell, Call of Duty is rated M but only people I see online playing it are 7-10 year old kids, even with their parents next to them who are playing it. So yeah…the distribution is where it counts. JastUSA knows that and I am sure they don’t want to get sued up the wazoo by all the Bible-thumper from different countries (I am looking at you Australia), if all hell breaks lose.
I totally understand their decision, but they should have also considered the legion of fans who have waited for this game for more than 3 years and who follow Sei’s work religiously. With keen marketing skills, JastUSA could have made everyone happy by considering alternate methods of delivering the uncut product to the fans. I hope it comes to that, when they think of a patch. If not, at least consider releasing a digital copy for the fans to download, with disclaimer, of course.
Are you sure about that? My understanding was that as long as the goods are legal in the origin country, it is the legal responsibility of the importer to make sure that the goods are legal to import into their country. Bear in mind that the transaction has already taken place, and the game is already the property of the importer by the time it’s processed by customs.
That’s a very thorny question that could only really be answered by an expert on international law (i.e. a lawyer). The answer probably differs country to country. I expect in many parts of the world the answer is no, that is incorrect, and the distributor can theoretically also be held liable. The problem is that nobody is going to bother trying because you have to spend enormous amounts of money just to try, and you’re almost certainly doomed to fail.
However police in the US can and do use sting operations like this one - a cop ordered the book, halfway across the country from the dude. When the order was filled, they arrested the guy and had him hauled to Florida. (The charges were later dropped. In this case. In other cases, people like this guy were convicted and went to jail.) See, the rules say ‘prevailing community standards’, which means local standards. And that means any prosecutor anywhere in the country who thinks a jury in his district will probably think your game is obscene can have a local cop buy a copy of the game, and then arrest you for selling it to him.
As for scat, this guy got 4 years for 5 counts. Note that one of the convictions was for scat. Also in the first link, notice how he was busted by a special unit set up to focus on federal obscenity prosecutions by President Bush (a Republican) - which was “later disbanded” (i.e. by a Democrat, who typically cares less).
Basically Peter is right; scat and bestiality are more or less no-go areas. Even if you don’t get in trouble now, years later a change in administrations could emphasise porn-busting (cause it appeals to certain voting blocks) and They could decide to nail you. And unless you want to spend vast sums of money to try to get up to the Supreme Court to revisit obscenity, with no guarantee of success (using money Jast doesn’t have), you’re probably going to lose once the jury sees the game (and the prosecutor will make them see it played). And really, even if Jast USA ultimately won, they’d probably still be out of business because their VN partners in Japan would likely pull out overnight.
Will you be releasing uncensored cgs of the cut content to fan groups or are we gonna have a mix match when someone does make a patch?
Also from your tone it sounds like Romanesque might have been censored too.
He was answering a question specifically about Littlewitch? And besides, considering the context of this thread is a screen-and-a-halfs-worth of explanation about exactly how Starless is going to be censored, why would you think his statement would apply to Starless?
Just to share a bit of info, I checked the Starless illustration artwork book and that contains the scat artwork uncensored in the back pages of the book.
Hi, JAST USA has moved to a new forum system, which much much more modern and easy to use. We’ll eventually close these old forums after some months. I’ve started a new thread at the new forums, at
