Narg, maybe you should just pretend like they don’t exist anymore.
Well, so far, you haven’t done much to dispel the “junkie” theory I espoused when this topic first came up.
duck
Seriously, though, this entire topic is the whole “sequelitis” debate over again. Sometimes sequelitis is a good thing: most people would say Zelda: Twilight Princess is leaps and bounds better than Zelda 1, for example. They keep putting out good games, people keep playing them, so more good games get made. The flip side, though, is things like the Madden series, or licensed games – where people’s “to buy, or not to buy” soliliquy is affected by factors other than how good the game is.
In the b-game vein: I don’t think many people would argue that a modern version of Nocturnal Illusion would be a good idea. The original game is still good story-wise, but shows its age in a lot of ways. Even a remake would be good.
However, the XChange series now has 1, 2, 3, 1R, and 2R as main entries; 1R and 2R were both skipped by PP for sequelitis reasons. Supposing they had been released; when we get to XChange 5, and Takuya gets changed into a girl again, would that become the bad kind of sequelitis? You betcha.
I wish I could dump it. 
But as someone who likes to review eroge from time to time, I have to experience the good with the bad. You can objectively state something is terrible, average, or great without knowing the full spectrum. There’s also the fact that I got on board the Ijitte train when it first started (highlight being the twincest episode), but immediately got the hate for it when they resurrected the series after promising it would end.
However I don’t get an Ijitte until I see it in the discount bin or a secondhand store, that way I’m not supporting Vitamin to make more. Nonetheless, I’m truly appalled that titles like Ijitte succeed, where others fail miserably. It can only be the low overhead cost (recycled engine, music, background graphics, etc)… Vitamin probably only needs to sell a few thousand to turn a nice profit.
even then you are still in a way supporting Vitamin, just not as directly…well if it’s secondhand. That’s because someone had to buy that copy and they probably bought it new or from someone else who bought it new. Whoever first bought it, bought it with the idea that if they wanted to, they knew they could resell it and get some money back therefore, willing to support the company.
Buying it out of a discount bin…well it depends really how discounted it is. Like the Duel Masters games I saw in January at Walmart…and almost bought 3 of them…except I figured someone already ripped the cards out of them (the only reason to buy the game).
Not really.
Explained simplistically: when it’s something sold on store shelves, companies don’t make their money off the customers, but off the retail stores that stock the titles - which make their money off the customers. When you get something secondhand, you hurt the retail store that originally ordered it from the company. If Store A buys a title for $10 per copy and sells it for $30, they make a profit of $20 - but if they’re forced to sell it at $20, they only make $10. This is usually where they claim something is on “sale” or a first round discount bin. However when a product fails to sell at all (or very poorly), they’ll price it at the same cost it took for them to get the title from the company (or close to it) to simply break even. And then when a title REALLY sells poorly, they’ll take a loss and price it at $5 (using this example)… or lower!
In real life, that’s like getting a PS2 game for $7.99 at Gamestop.
So back on point: getting a title secondhand, doesn’t help the retail store, because the places I get secondhand copies from, aren’t retail - they’re secondhand specialists. B-game pawn store if you will… therefore Store A never sees my money. If the title doesn’t leave the shelves (and I’ve noted Ijitte doesn’t exactly fly off the rack in places I usually stop by), Store A is then reluctant to stock something from that particular company or will order fewer copies the next go around (5 instead of 20). That hurts the company in question, and can send a signal that the popularity of something is wanning.
Taken far enough, secondhand recycling can be negative effect and is something that some game, music, and video groups dislike but cannot stop (for a huge number of reasons). That’s why I suggest to people who like a certain title to get a retail copy, rather than a used copy. It’s also helps to get a title you like, within the first 90 (60 is better) days of its initial release. This is the timeframe stores evaluate their inventory, and determine what sells fast and what sells poorly… thus influencing their priorities in restocking and/or pursuing more products for a certain company. This is why preordering is so important for games, music, and videos in general: some might argue that it’s even more important for eroge in many ways (given the niche market and all that).
Narg takes his gaming support seriously. 
So basically get a game secondhand from a location that doesn’t carry “new retail” versions of it. If you’re getting it from a “new retail” location, wait at least 6 months later and when the item is below 50% original price (although in the case of eroge, due to the high pricing of a new copy, I wait until it’s at or below 2000 yen for an unopened box). Since Final Road, I’ve paid between 1500 to 1800 yen for boxed Vitamin titles… used or new. I never touch the discount DVD plastic case versions - don’t know how to factor them, given they cost around 2000 yen for a new copy (it’s just the game CD and case; no instructions or goodies), I suspect they’re really cheap to distribute. I think it’s as close to a win-win situation for them as possible (outside of direct download)… unless they’re discounted below 500 yen or something… and I’ve NEVER seen that happen before. They just float at 2000 yen until someone finally buys them… at which they never stock it again (if the title proved difficult to sell).
Well you forget one point in that equation Narg. At some point a second-hand items had to have been a 1st-hand item. It’s possible that it could have been a beta or promo release sold by someone or excess inventory a company sold for cheap in bulk to a new/used store, but those are the exceptions, not the rule. And unless the game you’re looking for is over a year old, chances are the game was purchased within the first 3-6 months at full or almost full retail price.
Thus at some point in the chain someone must be customer zero in 99% of the cases, the one who did not purchase the game used. This same person may have very well purchased the game with the full intent of returning it before long. I know people that do that with games and hardware (hell i did it with my white DSLite…i knew i could resell it for an easy $100 on ebay even after the colored versions came out…and i did). I then went and bought a new one.
Thus the same analogy applies here to those customers, those who buy a game, play it once then sell it while they can still get a decent return. They don’t rent a game for whatever reason (maybe they don’t like rental policies, maybe they like the ability to own the game with everything included on the rare chance they want to keep it, maybe that’s their way of supporting the gaming industry). Point is there are people like that and if they couldn’t resell their item, they’d probably be much less inclined to spend the inital investment. FE: i know i wouldn’t have bought another DSLite.
But yea, getting a game for cheap is good. I got Kessen II for $10 at best buy. I was like “score!” even if the game turned out awful, i knew i could resell it back with minimal profit loss (and actually when i did, i got $12 in trade-in value). I also got another random anime season for $5…so i was like hell, for $5 it’s 26 episodes and even if it sucks i can probably get enough back (the anime is Kaleido Star…and i can see why it was so cheap…it was a niche anime within a niche…though it did spawn several seasons…go figure).
But yea, the point is, if there was no second-hand market, ie it was illegal to sell anything used, the initial sales would fall dramatically on almost any non-MMO game.
Also in some cases you have no choice but to buy used copies if the item is out-of-print.
Jinnai is still looking for a copy of Popoton DVD h-game aka Popoton Po!
It still doesn’t help the game company however. Look at it like this:
Store A buys 100 copies of Horrible Eroge: Second Story from Craptastic Studios for $10 each. 30 people buy it at retail price ($30). The remaining 70 sit idle for two months unsold. There’s now a sale for Horrible Eroge: Second Story at $20. Another 30 people buy it. The remaining 40 sit unsold for another two months. Now desperate to move stock, as the holiday season is nearing and new titles are being released, Store A sells the remaining 40 copies at a break even price of $10… depending on how fast they can be gone of Horrible Eroge: Second Story, they might even slip to a loss of $5 to rid themselves of it when shelf space becomes limited (having made profit from the initial 60 sold). When Craptastic Studios releases their next title, Horrible Eroge: Third Story, Store A remembers how difficult it was to sell 100 copies of the earlier version. Thus this time they only obtain 50 copies. That in turns hurts Craptastic Studios, as they would be expecting to sell as many or more than the previous (especially if they spent more time and money making it).
Outside of spreading negative reviews for a title, I cannot directly influence when another person buys Horrible Eroge at retail price. That is money Store A will make, regardless if I buy used, new, or not at all. Now it is true that secondhand stores give money or credit back to a person who gives them a used title. However secondhand titles ONLY make money for the stores in question - Craptastic Studios will not see a dime of the profit in this. Furthermore, people who enjoy a game will more likely KEEP their title, rather than submit it to a secondhand reseller. In conjunction with “limited releases” ¬ñ this can be a reason why certain titles are difficult to find used: Your Popotan DVD for example. Saturation of a title, also influence secondhand market prices: Usually with a title 30 days old or less, a reseller will buy that title for about 50% the retail price. However if tons of them flood in, that moneyback will drop to 40%, 30%, 20%, etc. This is because the price they can sell the used title also drops accordingly (supply is up, demand is down). Hence how I can get a 9800 yen title for a mere 1500 yen, rather than 6000 yen or 4000 yen (which successful used eroge might go for). Thus by studying the used market, I can see how successful an eroge is after retail sale (or how few copies were bought by them).
The idea that someone sells Horrible Eroge to a reseller, and then uses that money to buy another Craptastic Studios title, is a possibility… however given your typical gamer, that isn’t always the case. Furthermore, if someone rids themselves of a title within the first 60 days of ownership, it often reflects a negative opinion in the original buyer. As a real world example: Dragon Quest Monsters. The game had been out for 10 days, and I saw used copies being resold. Sure… someone might have power gamed themselves through it or perhaps cheated. However it’s also possible that someone didn’t like DQM at all. A nostalgic DQ fanboy would more likely KEEP his copy of DQM, and a casual gamer would own it for an average of 60 to 90 days before reselling. Thus I doubt someone who returned DQM so quickly, would turn around and use that money to buy a new copy of Dragon Quest Swords… and probably be hesitant to buy the recently released Dragon Quest 4. Now someone might argue that person would just go buy a Final Fantasy - however if Dragon Quest titles keep getting returned so quickly after release, that influences the stores to get fewer DQ titles the next time another is released. They’ll continue to order FF at their regular numbers (rarely higher, since low supply equals high demand), but fewer DQ. Thus hurting Square-Enix… which evidently, is the real case (in that DQ is doing poorly as a whole, in the US market).
And most eroge companies, don’t have the cash flow to absorb hits and losses like Square-Enix.
Well i know for a fact that myself and others i know would not buy certain games if we had 0% chance of resale, so to completely dismiss that as a reason for buying some items is a falacy.
That said, your statement about Dragon Quest Monsters is probably true. If it’s returned in 10 days it’s likely: 1> they hated the game and won’t buy a sequal or 2> they pirated the game by dumping the rom.
I don’t disagree - and in some cases I’ve known that to be very true. You still get things like Madden ## or Tiger Woods ##, which according to Gamestop (a major reseller of games), get the lowest resell return for gamers - yet remain bestsellers as new and used titles.
Behold the almighty power of a template cash cow!
None shall oppose the might of the Ijitte Princess!
I know fan base loyalty is powerful thing, but good Lord… do they line the boxes with addictive drugs that seep through the skin? That’s 10 official Ijitte Princess titles so far, not counting the unofficial Ijitte Prince spinoff. :shock:
They’re running out of ideas too… a succubus princess this time. How original. She doesn’t even seem to “fit” with the rest of the cast… like she was from another game and they just threw here in there. :roll:
That’s what happens when to try to overuse a good idea, eventually it starts to show signs of straining.
It’s that time again, boys and girls. Ijitte Princess Next 4.
I wonder Ijitte Princess has the most individual titles for a single series in the eroge industry (it has 12 titles; not including renewals)… I think I’ll do a bit of snooping to find out. 
They seem to crank out a new Ijitte every 3 or 4 months.
I bet they have a hidden stockpile of two or three finished titles ready for release already. :lol: :shock: 
The new girl is Marie… Princess of the Maid Kingdom or something… I don’t know…
Also the Prince spinoff is slated to get a sequel this year… I think mid or late summer.
Well, I guess I could have a look at Ijitte Princess’ most obvious ‘competitor’ in that regard. However many of these titles to actually count is up to you:
D.C. Da Capo
D.C. Da Capo White Season
D.C. Da Capo Hot Springs (all ages)
D.C.P.C. Da Capo Plus Communication
D.C. Summer Vacation
D.C. II. The Spring Breeze’s Ultimate Battle!
D.C. II. Da Capo II
D.C. II ~featuring Yun2!~
D.C. II Da Capo II Spring Celebration
D.C. Da Capo: Kotori (DVDPG)
D.C. Da Capo: Sakura (DVDPG)
D.C. Da Capo: Nemu (DVDPG)
D.C.P.K. Da Capo Poker
D.C. After Seasons
C.D.C.D 2
D.C. II. Character Collection
D.C. II. Da Capo II Plus Communication (apparently good!)
circus clearly knows what they’re doing, since people will keep buying da capo games
(I’ve played the original Da Capo. Never played any of the others, because I didn’t like it) DCIIPC is a possibility, because of its very high ratings… but we’ll see.
Don’t you know what “Da Capo” means?
If you do, then this all should have been no surprise - it’s all in the name! :lol: :lol:
Apologies for hijacking this thread, but I’ll add a new entry to the list 
- Black Cyc’s EXTRAVAGANZA.
Besides the (very highly regarded) main game there is:
??? ?? AnzU!
???
EXTRAVAMIZUNA (not listed on EGS, probably because it’s a Cyc members only game)
EXTRAVAGANZA ???
and now… AGEHA?EXTRAVAGANZA? (Cyc members only)
I’m sure they were commissioned to make this spinoff in this vein by Cyc, so the blame fully rests with the company for not attempting to do anything original, and for wasting the talents of the artist and scenario writer. Surely they can do something much better and more creative than an ??? (infinite rape adventure). [not that any of us can play it anyway, as no-one’s a Cyc member]
[Off topic, but I’m approaching the end of Mugen Kairou, and from what I’ve seen so far, it’s the sort of title that doesn’t need a 1.5 or a 2 at all. Too early to judge yet though, but the game appears to be set in a ‘closed’ world. The story continually loops when you reach an ending and it’s essentially completely linear (you can see certain paths in a different order but the game is really leading to a single ‘true’ ending, like Ever 17) so… it doesn’t appear to need a sequel.]
EXTRAVAGANZA is also the direct sequel to Mushi Tsukai (???)… so you can throw that one in the list too. Given the appearance of several characters from the first title into the second, I think it’s fair to assume the good ending with Miyaka was canon. According to Erogamescape regulars, the game is equal (some claim superior) to MinDeaD BlooD. They were both written by the same person.
Buzz for this new Cyc Member addition is actually pretty big on 2chan. You see, BCyc supposedly lost that scenario writter, as he left to found a new ero company (along with several other BCyc regulars). However this new side story involves those people who left. Therefore BCyc is still on good terms with the exodus crew, and maintains a business relationship with them. Basically the people who made BCyc’s best titles are still on BCyc’s payroll (or at least commissionable)… so the recent trend of terrible games BCyc has been releasing, may not be a permanent one. There were some who believed the exodus was because of disagreement on how things were being ran (the “tone” of BCyc games has changed drastically since Gun-Katana).
On a rather interesting note: the soundtrack composer responsible for EXTRAVAGANZA, also had a hand in Ijitte Princess… so you’re technically not off topic at all.
True - I forgot about Mushi Tsukai when I made that post. However, I’d argue that both games despite sharing some characters, are or will be a lot more original and distinct than the various EXTRAVAGANZA spinoffs.
Ah - it’s interesting to hear that 2chan is hyped up about the newly announced game. I’m excited to see Metawo return as well to work on a new Black Cyc eroge together with Izumi, but since I don’t live in Japan I can’t become a member anyway and buy the game (well, I guess it might be possible to procure it via Yahoo Auctions or something similar, but the amount of game/price ratio probably wouldn’t be worth it), plus compared to the major Black Cyc titles + Corpse Maid, it doesn’t seem to have a particularly interesting story, or much originality at all. Whether or not that’s good or bad would depend on the individual, but from my perspective, it probably won’t have any real appeal to me. I’m sure it will be well written with excellent art… but if it’s in the vein of EXTRAVAGANZA ???, then there’s no way I’d want to purchase something like that. It’s definitely possible to make a low priced and unique game as light and other companies have shown, but this doesn’t appear to be one of those.
Edit: Regarding the high scores on EGS for MinDead Blood and EXTRAVAGANZA, I’d argue that those ratings are just as much, if not more because of the story + characters rather than the ero content.
AH, HA, HA, HA!!!
Extact same format as Ijitte Princess… bunch of virgin princesses from different ethnic countries, a loyal maid who has the hots for you, marry them all and there will be world peace.
I guess there’s more profit in this niche that I imagined…
Well it’s G.J?… so at least that means it will be uber quality.
Oh my… is this available for import yet?
Yep, it can be pre-ordered from the usual stores. Interestingly enough, the two scenario writers working on the title are both rather highly regarded (they also worked in tandem on the recently released BALDR SKY Dive1), although in the case of Hime to Boin, I doubt the scenario will be the focal point of the title.