Original mosaic versus edited demosaic - Critical Point

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#1

Personally, I’m indifferent to edited art. Have it or don’t, it doesn’t matter to me; they’re not so much “better or worse” than just different. To be honest, I’d rather the producers focus on a clean script than on this detail.

(Note: I am not saying that art is unimportant. It is. I just don’t care about demosaicing specifically.)

About the demo… it’s too big. And I don’t just mean the downloading size; I thought it was too long. Seriously. I mean, you can actually get endings! Not the key ones, mind you, but endings besides the bad ones. (Unless they were all bad…)

I was expecting something relatively quick. You know, like the demo would cut me off at a key incident well before any ending (except death). (Yes, I know that the demo did cut off at some points.) Like a cliffhanger. But I suppose that’s just a difference in creative tastes.

Other than that, the demo sold me. I’ll (sigh) order this too… (no more money! )

#2

I don’t really prefer the edited or the original artwork, either is good to me, but I do really like the “doll-like” artwork of some games though.

The mosaics in Critical Point are really thin anyway, it doesn’t distract from the game like I thought it would. I haven’t played the demo for too long yet though, I’m a little reluctant to play it too much as I am tempted to wait for the full version to arrive with the music and voices - they add so much more depth to a game.

#3

i prefer the origional artwork, since it makes games come out faster and cheaper

#4

I think I don’t care about the work being demosaiced or not… In fact, I so used to the normal Japanese works, I was… taken aback when playing PeachPri demosaiced works… They didn’t bother me, but I DID find them… “weird”.

#5
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
I think I don't care about the work being demosaiced or not... In fact, I so used to the normal Japanese works, I was... taken aback when playing PeachPri demosaiced works... They didn't bother me, but I DID find them... "weird".

Well, the demosaiced works does often looks strange... in fact they often makes the whole thing look even stranger then how it sometimes looks with the mosaics. Anyway, the mosaics did, as I said, not bother me, since it's the story that I find important - not if you can see the nasty details or not - after all, I often read quite a lot of erotic fanfiction at the net, and when reading a fanfic, you have just the text - no pictures, so you have to imagine the whole thing. And compared to imagine a sex scene in a fanfic to imagine what's beneath the mosaic, it's not allt hat hard to imagine what's beneath the mosaic - it isn't even really "hidden".

#6

I’ve got no problems at all with the "censor"

The only times I get bothered with it is when they use some strange way of sensoring or it takes up alot of space on the screen ^^;;

But most games I’ve skimmed around with have been ok,the main thing is still the dialog and the gameplay (if there is any) =)

And if the games get cheaper by you not “uncensoring” them then the chances are definitely greater that i’ll buy them =)

Why not also make a Special Edition of Bravesoul? =)

[This message has been edited by Gurvon (edited 02-26-2002).]

#7

I really wasn’t too excited about this game when I read about it; now, having played the demo for about an hour or so, I’m hooked and plan on buying the game.

Kumiko–I don’t know if this is possible, but I thought it might be worth mentioning that after I downloaded the demo at work (I have a USB Zip drive that I use to take stuff home), I unzipped the game, then used Rar to break the game into smaller segments so I could fit it onto 100 meg disks. (I created rar SFX files of 1.38 meg in size–110 files in all!) Anyway, this made the size of the demo only 150 megs–about 50 megs less than the zipped version and in files that someone with a 56K modem could download in bits and pieces. I don’t know if it would be worth the effort to break the demo up in such a manner (you could do it with ten 15-meg files instead of the 110 1.38-meg files like I did) to accommodate those with slower modems, but it would free up 50 megs of space on your server. Just a thought (hope it didn’t just waste your time).

Oh, and the mosaic didn’t bother me at all.

[This message has been edited by Sharpe (edited 02-26-2002).]

#8

I did already mention the possibility of using RAR files in this way in another topic,but kumiko said that using RAR files was not a good idea because, apparantly, not many people have WinRAR, but I think that this is really quite irrelevent because these archives are self-extracting, meaning that an .exe file is provided which extracts the files without need for any software (In other words, the users who download it won’t need WinRAR), which is actually better for users, as pkunzip (or whatever) would not be needed either like it is currently.

I’ve also tested this myself by splitting all of the files from the three archives “cp-playabledemo-0?” and putting them into a self-extracting archive with split files of 10MB each. The result is 16 files, totalling 153MB that requires no software to extract and works very easily - not bad at all IMO.

[This message has been edited by TurricaN (edited 02-27-2002).]

#9

Let’s just say that the “standard compression” isn’t the best you’ll get - RAR is a much better compression than ZIP. I’ve managed to knock another 2MB off making it down to 151MB - This is the entire demo, not just the single large file. I’ve sent the demo to my networked PC that doesn’t have WinRAR to test it and it works perfectly - I’ve extracted the full 200MB from the 151MB of files and it works great! While I would like to host the demo myself, I would really be impossible for me to do so now, as I only have 100MB webspace and 500MB bandwidth per month.

The reason that I was suggesting that it be compressed this way, is that it makes it better for both Peach Princess (Almost 50MB less bandwidth consumption per download, and that’s assuming that the files are downloaded on the first attempt by the user - It will be much more than that if the download fails for any reason) and it would also be better for people who download (They have to download 50MB less, and if something is corrupt, they will only have to re-download 10MB at maximum rather than 194MB, which will encourage more people to download. They also do not need any compression software such as PKUnzip - computer newbies will be able to get the demo running easier).

I really do only see advantages to both Peach Princess and the people who download the demo with this method of compression, but I guess it’s really up to Peach Princess whether they wish to continue wasting bandwidth or not.

#10

Just to second TurricaN, I unzipped the demo files into a folder, then rar-ed the unzipped file into 110 SFX rar files and it came out to be just over 150 megs. I put those files on two 100-meg zip disks and brought them home, where I un-rar-ed the rar files by using the exe file (which is created whenever a SFX rar archive is created) and haven’t had any problems with the demo.

#11

I still don’t think that you were understanding what I was trying to say Kumiko. It’s good to see that the files are split now as it allows users who get failed downloads to not have to download the whole thing again.

quote:
Originally posted by Kumiko:
RAR is just not used here - what the reason for that might be, we don’t know. It isn’t in stores, and it isn’t used by any company we have checked, either on their site or in the products. Since it isn’t a standard, we cannot support it or have people contacting us about using it. It’s sort of like our customers who have told us that our games work under Virtual PC on Macintosh - they may work, and they may be just fine, but we cannot support that option.
The fact that RAR is not used there is really quite irrelevent in what I was saying. There is a shareware version of WinRAR available for software on the Internet which allows you to create SFX archives - you would not have to support the RAR format as the file would be self extractable - In other words, you need WinRAR to create the files, but the people who download it don’t need WinRAR to extract them, extraction is done simply by running the first of the downloaded set of files - This means that people would not need to contact you for support about WinRAR or anything related to RAR compression they would not be using WinRAR to extract it. Even now, users are required to use Winzip to extract the files, which is bad as requiring users to have specific software is not really a good thing.

All I’m trying to do is give you ideas to save some bandwidth - it wouldn’t cost you anything in terms of software (Creating an SFX archive can be done with the shareware version of WinRAR) and would save bandwidth and the requirement of having to obtain other software first to extract it (Such as Winzip etc.).

#12

problem went away. ^-^

[This message has been edited by Llilithe (edited 02-28-2002).]

#13

Personally, although graphics are an important part of any game, it’s the story for me that keeps me coming back… I don’t care whether the artwork is mosaic’d, de-mosaic’d, or drawn with crayon(well, maybe not with crayon ) if the plot doesn’t grab you, what’s the point of making the game in the first place?

#14
quote:
Originally posted by Kumiko Kamiyama:
Businesses follow standards. Just as one simple example of why a self-executing file is not a good idea... many people will not run downloaded EXEs on their systems. Now, you may not feel that way... but others do.
I'm confused... you say that some people won't run an .exe file downloaded from the web, yet if they want to get the game working, they will have to run the "setup.exe" file and the "critical.exe" file - These are downloaded executable files, regardless of whether they're zipped or not. It's not very likely that someone who would not run a self-extracting archive would run either of the .exe files mentioned above either.
quote:
Originally posted by Kumiko:
Aside from that, RAR is not a standard here - there's no place for us to buy it even though San Diego is a large metro area, and even if we used it, it isn't what people accept as a standard for compressed files.
You wouldn't need to buy it though - you can download the shareware versopn at the homepage, www.rarsoft.com. People would not need to accept it as a standard, the working and the appearance is similar to that of any standard installation or setup program.
#15

After playing the demo for about an hour I am quite happy I’ve ordered both versions of Critical Point.

Hopefully my friends who play bishoujo games will buy one or two as well.

#16
quote:
Originally posted by Kumiko Kamiyama:
sometimes it is silly.
Well, you said it before me... I believe that anyone else who reads this thread will agree with all of the points I've made, but If you want to insist on continuing to believe everything that you "think" is true, that's fine. I was just providing you with factual information, though you don't seem to be able to take that in, so I guess that it's pointless for me to continuously note how your reasons are flawed, though I guess many readers will have already noticed that anyway.
#17
quote:
Originally posted by Kumiko Kamiyama:
One piece of feedback that we really want to here about is the entire Western notion of original mosaiced artwork being "bad". ...The game CG is not simply demosaiced in a Western release - the art beneath the mosaic is actually changed, in most cases.... We're curious because we see adult live action Japanese erotica selling complete with large mosaics...

Can't comment on the download since I don't have the bandwidth or the patience to download 150MB, but for the whole "mosaics are bad" thing I will just say that many people equate mosaics with "censorship" and are thus less likely to buy a product that has it. It may not seem fair, since the original Japanese product has mosaics, but then, the Japanese are used to mosaics. Americans are used to seeing everything displayed in it's glory (albeit airburshed [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/tongue.gif[/img] ).

As for the manner in which the artwork is changed, I prefer a little hair "down there" as it makes the characters seem more mature (age-wise) IMO. When they're left "bare" it seems unnatural to me. Of course, I think the best idea would be to give different characters different kinds of "coverage", but the Japanese artists seem to be stuck on one style.

Lastly, if certain types of erotica seem to sell despite mosaics, understand that they are both more established and more unique: adult film has a much larger customer base - everyone at least knows about it, even if they insist they don't purchase it [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img] ; and Japanese erotica offers a number of fetishes that you don't seem to find in American adult films [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/eek.gif[/img] (probably the largest being the fetish of just asian performers).

True, shoujo isn't just about the explicit CGs, but that is the hook it has over more traditional pc games. It's a selling point, and to weaken it would be a mistake.

#18

Ah, this is a little bit off topic regarding the mosaic vs. demosaic debate, but I ordered the wonderful Tokimeki Check-In artbook from Peach Princess a while back. As I thumbed through the pages of wonderful artwork, I stumbled upon the CG for the terrible trio at the souvenir shop, and the surprise in the ‘can of peanuts’ was mosaiced. That meant for the English version the content of that ‘can of peanuts’ had to be demosaiced. Bizarre! Or was it used to comedic effect?

#19

to be honest, I prefer doll-like censorship to mosaics, but I will put up with just about anything that lets me enjoy the stories. I love the artform as a whole, and don’t sweat the small stuff. I greatly appreciate the translations that you add in. I have played some non translated games, and don’t get as much enjoyment from them. As for the demo, it is too big for me to download. Will likely buy it anyway.

#20