…wow. I’m seriously impressed that you actually bothered to respond to the customers. ^^
And no V-mate means that I’ll be able to buy Shiawase no Katachi and maybe Hitomi now… :>
I was going to hold off on both, as English-language games are merely a convenience to me. It’s always nice to be able to use something without having to actually try to understand it, yanno? ^^;;
what now indeed?
what about the future now with the v-mate system gone? it may come out again inn the peach princess business once you address a few problems but inn the meantime with nothing protecting the games from piracy or even slowing it down our selection of games will slowly die.
i know some of you were quick to condemn it as an invasion of privacy and limited the areas we play but it did slow piracy quite substancially. only two were cracked and it took months to do it.
what else will Peach Princess do to their games to protect them Peter and Laumness? what else can you do?
ella
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Please visit www.ladylita.com for a magical experience.
… do you just enjoy doomsaying? or haven’t quite adjusted to the change in position after insisting it was the ONLY way?
Well, we have hints that a protection system might be used for future downloadable games and there’s also the possibility of a more revised protection system ironing out a few of the problems - and probably NOT called V-Mate, to keep it away from any negative publicity.
Too bad b-games don’t come out frequently enough to use some kind of monthly membership system. (Actually, GC could almost have done that. Pay $30 monthly and have access to all the games in the stable - but only through a vmate-style login server and only as long as you’re an active member! This would still suck for people with internet issues, but it would be an interesting new model to experiment with. No CDs, no shipping, no waiting for delivery - and no resale issues.)
I will say more tomorrow it is bedtime for me now.
[This message has been edited by papillon (edited 04-21-2005).]
Question, will there actually be a non vmate cd print ran, or will there just be a patch?
Like I said before, i will only pirate a game with vmate. Since you are now offering an alternative, i will happily buy the games. 40 or 50, doesnt bother me. Price wasnt the issue, it was just the principle of vmate.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamuness:
well u read the post peter made on the other thread, didn't u?- all the gc games will still be playable
- gc will continue
I believe that the question is valid to the point that going through the posts, that there are some customers who have ordered games through g-c and have not recieved them even though their CC were charged.
It is nice to know that I will be able to buy games again. Although I doubt that I will pick up all five of g-col vm games; however, I will wait for the patches first. As I look at it V-mate was too restrictive with its copy protection. A one time online activation, entering a serial code, or some variation of such I don't have a problem with.
quote:
Originally posted by Peter Payne:
While we had planned on greatly improving on the current system, in the end we weren't able to make the changes we really wanted to V-Mate. Thus we're going to stop using it on CD-ROM based games, which should make everyone here happy....
Incidentally, we do still plan to use Virtual Mate for future projects at this time, but it won't be anything you need to worry about.
I'm glad to hear that PP is dropping V-Mate and releasing patches for the G-C V-Mate games, but I don't understand why there's that disclaimer about still using V-Mate in future projects... Just a little confused, that's all - I think PP has done a lot to reassure the fan community, and I'd like to offer my thanks and appreciation too. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
of course i am a doomsayer, i look at this realistically. peter and laumness agree that this easily spells death without the protection. you know about the threats even if you do not want to admit them to anyone except yourself.
i also never said it was the only way.
i applaud systems like this and defend them because the delay and work they pose to crackers and pirates are very real.
ella
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Please visit www.ladylita.com for a magical experience.
Frankly, in the end, as long as PP stays in business, I’m happy. I did end up buying all 5 v-mate games, and I’ll download the patchs when they come out. To be honest, I never really had any major issues with v-mate, and I didn’t really care about the privacy issues. I only started worrying when it appeared that G-C was out of business(I thought it would still last at least a few more years if nothing more), and therefore the games not being playable. But that’s answered, thanks to PP. I hope that PP works out some more agreeable protection system in the future, because as peter payne said, the english b-game market isn’t anywhere near big enough to shake off piracy compeletly. Particarly if it wants to grow at all.
Speaking of which, I have only one question left, which is the status of G-C. I’m still trying to figure this out. Yes, according to peter payne’s other post, G-C was still around. However, as someone else said, other people hadn’t recieved their games(last I bought from them was figures of happiness, and I recieved it promptly), and they haven’t updated their site since FoH. Also, why would PP release patchs for their games if they were still in business? I’m almost 100% certain that even if they are “in business” they are just supporting their current releases, not translating anymore games. G-C made a bad mistake with V-mate, and their customer service(espically after vagabond left) was bad, but they did release almost one game a month, as opposed to PP’s one game a year. Even with them, the english market was nothing more then a mere shadow of the japanese market, and now with just PP’s one or two games per year… they aren’t even comparable. I mean, there’s something to be said for having a bit more of a selection in english b-games, and G-C did at least help with that. It’s really a shame. I hope that PP at least continues, and in the meantime I’ll see about picking up a japanese b-game(shouldn’t be too different from when I watched raw kamen rider episodes ) Still, a offical statement on the status of G-C from PP would be nice.
And no, the b-game industry will never, ever have the amount of recoginzation in the states that it has in japan. I guess people would rather play another first-person shooter than something a little more orginal.
^^;
Odd: So G-collection is out of business? I need my game I order from G-collection. I guess I have to call CC company also…
I’m guessing that G-Collections is just an imprint of Peapri now, since Peter seems to be taking care of the mess that they’ve caused…
…kinda like how there are still Compaq and Hewlett-Packard computers, even though they’re the same company.
…but that’s just my guess. ^^;;
Something like the Japanese systems wouldn’t bother me, where they have one version with the anti-piracy things on it at a lower price and a version witrhout it at a higher price…but that wouln’t prevent some fucktard from ripping the clean discs and distributing them… >>
quote:
Originally posted by Nameless Mofo:
While I won't shed any crocodile tears over the demise of VM, I have a few things I'd like to say.1. My objection to VM was not that it was an anti-piracy thing. I agree that piracy is hurting the market and that PP/GC have the right to take steps to combat it. But I felt that VM was the wrong solution. A scaled-back VM might have been the right thing, i.e. one-time activation etc.
2. GC's non-handling of the controversy just made things worse IMO. We all had legitimate questions that were not being answered and GC basically blew us all off. Therein lies the key difference between GC and PP.
3. I always said that if/when VM was gone, I would start buying games again. I fully intend to do so once Peter gives more details about the official patches release.
4. Hats off to Peter, Lamuness, and everyone at PP who listened to us, had the balls to talk to us about it, and addressed our concerns.
I have newfound respect for PP as a company and Peter & Lamuness as individuals.
I understand this decision has ramifications, in that PP is now counting on customer support more than ever. Well, I'll do my part!
Hear hear!!
Now back to B-Gaming (at last [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img])
quote:
Originally posted by Lamuness:
personally i wasn't even aware that peapri planned to use vmate for doushin until the game announcement.
Well, Peter was already quite pro-V-Mate in previous announcements, particulary in the newsletters. So, it wasn't a total surprise opposed to the way G-C announced it back then.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamuness:
at any rate, now that the vmate saga is over, it should please everybody including those heavily fumed people like unicorn papillon and that infamous european guy who just sent us a bunch of death threat emails the other day...
I don't like very much bein mentioned in one sentence with a guy who made death threats, but perhaps I overdid my sarcasm in my first statement after the cat was out of the bag. So, I think I should accept this as a small and justified punishment.
quote:
Originally posted by Lamuness:
while it is understandable that you guys have the very reason to fight, now that the vmate thing is over, can you guys now stop the fighting and go back to your regular friendly bbs channel?
I would like to see that happening too.
Only time will tell, but I plan to act in an according manner.
Actually, I think that I already withdrew from the harsh words and just reduced it to one statement. And I won't back up from that stament in the future either: If my system doesn't fulfill the requirements of a new game and I don't like to upgrade my system according to the new requirements, then I also won't buy the game. I think that statement is reasonable.
Howevere, I never regarded pirating the games as a acceptable solution, quite the opposite. My plan was just to do without them. And up to now, I acted according to this plan. So, as soon as the patches are available, you may expect an order containing 5 V-mate-games from G-Collections...
quote:
Originally posted by Lamuness:
and just some food for thought. personally i was (really) impressed that vmate did slow down piracy when it started (although it was good while it lasted)....and the increased sales....that alone says alot in terms of results and implications...anyways just something for you all to munch on
As it was said before:
There have been two different possible reasons at the same time for the increased sales.
It would be certainly wrong to attribute the increase to only one of them.
I also mentioned before that V-Mate might have been effective in fending off piracy, even though we heard now for the first time that sales really increased.
So, I certainly would understand if such a scheme would be implemented and used even right now. But that doesn't make me like a system that locks me out from the community of english bishoujo gamers for all upcoming releases.
I was sitting in my hotel in Lima yesterday catching up on all the recent fireworks on the board. The announcement that PP planned to implement VM with its next release came as a complete shock, as did today’s retraction. The news raises some interesting questions that brought me back from my posting hiatus.
Peter says that VM has had a positive effect on sales for GC. It’s not clear to me that it’s because of its anti-piracy effect, however. It may instead be a reaction to all the extra publicity the protection scheme generated for the games. It could be that all the VM discussion on this and other boards attracted more attention for the new games than would have otherwise occurred. Then too, if GC’s sales actually increased in the interim, why does the company appear to be on such shaky grounds now? Orders aren’t being fulfilled, there are no new product announcements, their BBS remains silent. It seems like GC has given up on direct marketing, and that’s not a good sign for the company’s future prospects.
There are a lot of implications about the relationship between PP and GC in Peter’s post. For PP to talk about removing the VirtualMate online registration system on the five CD-ROM based G-Collections games indicates they are not just a reseller, but they exert direct control over GC’s releases. Yet, Peter says we were very cautionary to G-Collections about the system they designed. That implies independent management. So which is it, and why does PP have the authority to revise GC’s policy?
Finally, I’d like to respond to some of the criticisms leveled against those who oppose VM. To say that everyone who is against the system is in favor of piracy is ridiculous and frankly, a little insulting. I declined to purchase V-mate games because I refuse to support that business model. In the past we have been able to purchase games and install them on any system we wanted and play them whenever we desired, online or not. The V-Mate model is essentially a game rental business. You don’t own the software, are not free to use it like other purchased products, and ultimately give up all rights to it when you exceed the installation limits or the producer stops supporting it. Unlike some rental plans, you pay all fees up front, but it’s still essentially a rent rather than own scheme. I was happy to support the old model. I never pirated games, have no love of pirates, and encourage companies to employ whatever protection mechanisms are feasible as long as they don’t restrict the end user in objectionable ways.
And to call VM “trivial” and to say that people who oppose it have “selfish desires for self-gratification” is completely dismissing others’ legitimate complaints. It’s especially ironic since the poster calls his own “selfish desire” for a lower price one of the reasons he enjoyed V-Mate. I say who cares about the $10 reduction? Let’s go back to the old way of distributing b-games. I’ll do my part by promising to buy all interesting titles and not make backup copies to share with my friends. The best way to nurture the business is to attract new customers, not provide new challenges to pirates who will continue to do what they’ve always done.
Ok, so if GC is out of business. How am I going to get Figure of Happiness that I ordered from them? Because I’ve been waiting for two weeks now and I kind of want to play this game.
By the way, what is going to happen to the prizes that were being offered at GC, because I was hoping to save up enough coins so I could get the items.
It sounds like the GC orders are a little confused right now, so I’m planning to wait a month or two before ordering FoH. I’m sure things will sort themselves out in a little while.
quote:
Originally posted by Baldo:
Naah, I can't believe that our beloved troll is to blame for this... C'mon, Rampager, make a laugh with me [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img].
Actually, I was exchanging emails w/ the dude over VM for the past week or two. He was rather upset over the plans to adopt VM for PP products.
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Well, we have hints that a protection system might be used for future downloadable games and there's also the possibility of a more revised protection system ironing out a few of the problems - and probably NOT called V-Mate, to keep it away from any negative publicity.Too bad b-games don't come out frequently enough to use some kind of monthly membership system. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] (Actually, GC could almost have done that. Pay $30 monthly and have access to all the games in the stable - but only through a vmate-style login server and only as long as you're an active member! This would still suck for people with internet issues, but it would be an interesting new model to experiment with. No CDs, no shipping, no waiting for delivery - and no resale issues.)
You raise some excellent points. I also foresee some form of copy protection incorporated with future releases. People here have indicated that they have no qualms for an online registration of their copy of the game, so that's certainly something to look at.
As for downloading games, both PP (through upgrades of the hentai poker) and GC have experience with that. Your membership idea is very, very intriguing. But the danger of cutting out the retailers under this business model can't be understated. if let's say GC offers the 5 vmate games as downloads directly to the consumer, then this would bypass the retailers and distributor and therefore reduce the likelihood of selling off their inventory of these games. If GC offers downloads of future products, retailers will balk at carrying these products.
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
I was sitting in my hotel in Lima yesterday catching up on all the recent fireworks on the board. The announcement that PP planned to implement VM with its next release came as a complete shock, as did today's retraction. The news raises some interesting questions that brought me back from my posting hiatus.
If you don't mind my being frank here, I'm shocked that you would waste valuable hotel time to bother with this bbs and make a long post. I guess I would set my priorities differently if I was in your shoes. lol
quote:
There are a lot of implications about the relationship between PP and GC in Peter's post. For PP to talk about removing the VirtualMate online registration system on the five CD-ROM based G-Collections games indicates they are not just a reseller, but they exert direct control over GC's releases. Yet, Peter says we were very cautionary to G-Collections about the system they designed. That implies independent management. So which is it, and why does PP have the authority to revise GC's policy?
[/B]
I interpret those comments differently than you. If GC is no longer able to pay for Interlex' VM services, then PCR (the distributor) would be sitting with copies of 5 VM linked GC products that cannot be activated and therefore unplayable products. So there is incentive to deal with the VM issue---by either taking over the Interlex service contract or having the disabling VM patches released ASAP. Both would be done with GC's permission (which shouldn't be an issue because otherwise the distributor will simply return the unplayable merchandise back to GC for a full refund). Based on this scenario, the companies are still acting independently.
quote:
But the danger of cutting out the retailers under this business model can't be understated. if let's say GC offers the 5 vmate games as downloads directly to the consumer, then this would bypass the retailers and distributor and therefore reduce the likelihood of selling off their inventory of these games. If GC offers downloads of future products, retailers will balk at carrying these products.
Since I *am* a member of the downloadable games industry, I can point out that people do manage to survive without retail... [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] It's a balance, really. If you can manage to bypass retail you get much higher profit margins, but physical retail tends to push a lot more copies if you get decent distribution.
I have no idea what percentage of b-game sales currently go through retail... I would *think* that most people who know about online ways to order/buy would already be doing that rather than relying on a store to stock and the potential embarassment of f2f purchase, and that the two markets wouldn't compete that much - but that's a TOTAL guess on my part, I have no idea.
With the sort of membership model I was imagining there, you'd still want to have some way of buying an individual game permanently - probably in an expensive collector's edition. And yeah, that would still raise issues of how you keep THAT version from being pirated... but if the main draw to getting the collector's edition is the bonus toy/tin/whatever it comes with and the monthly membership is fairly affordable, I think it might not be too bad a problem.
Lazy people already try to get monthly memberships to hentai paysites to download games from, rather than wade through p2p to find everythign...
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
Actually, I was exchanging emails w/ the dude over VM for the past week or two. He was rather upset over the plans to adopt VM for PP products.