Poll: Fan Translations - Boon or Bane to the English Market?

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#41

It does exist, although it is more commonly found amongst younger people who more than likely still live at home. I’ve been there myself not too many years ago; at the worst I was struggling like heck just to pay the $15 the WoW subscription cost (in hindsight it might have been better if I hadn’t been able to afford it then >_> ). The reason I still had internet was because I had paid for one year in advance when I was still in school as that saved me $8 per month, and my PC was a 2 year old hand-me-down that could probably still play the less graphic intensive games coming out today if I had set the settings on low (well, the graphics card might have needed an upgrade by now). It certainly would have played erogames coming out today. Also, many flats in Norway come with internet connection through cable as part of the rent; you have it whether you want it or not (my flat is not one like that though).

This doesn’t excuse piracy or anything, but they do exist and I’ve been one (and have no desire to go back to that time). I pirated my share of stuff since it was pretty much the only entertainment I could “afford”, as ironic as that is. Almost as ironic as me berating my friend for pirating Command & Conquer: Generals a few years prior because he had a job and could afford to buy it, and piracy was wrong because buying games funds the creation of more games -_-;

The funny thing is, the more free time you have, the easier it is to become “addicted” to games, movies etc because you need something to fill all that time with. When I got a job, I didn’t need to pirate anything not only because I could afford to buy the games I wanted, but I didn’t have time to play all the shovelware that comes out every month which I could when I was unemployed (and more or less had to because it kept my mind off the fact that I was wasting my life in front of the PC doing nothing… ).

Ugh, god I’m glad that’s over with.

#42

I know a guy from Venezuela who I’m trying to introduce the genre to. Apparently they have rather bizarre limits on Internet orders / imports–he’s only allowed to spend so much money per year to order games over the Internet. He was rather annoyed when Agarest War for PS3 was announced as downloadable only because it meant the money for the game would have to come out of this restricted budget, whereas if it was a physical product he could pick it up at a local retailer without any fuss.

There’s also a number of countries where porn is simply illegal. Obviously that makes legal purchases somewhat of a problem. Then you get to countries like the US where there’s grey areas of legality with respect to certain elements found in certain games (not much excuse for Americans since JAST at least is US-based and is held to the same laws, but the argument could be made for other countries). Oddly, piracy can often be more effective at avoiding the notice of the law than being a paying customer. I’m sure this fact doesn’t bother opponents of the porn industry one bit.

#43

I might have to change it to mixed. Because, has some have noted, piracy has actually led some people to Peach Princess. I was also one of those. A friend had provided two VNs (Kana and Tokimeki Check-in) via a website quite a few years ago. I had no clue they were pirated software for a few months, but after I searched for info on the genre, I found PP, G-Collections, and J-list.

Sometimes the piracy was simply done out of ignorance and not actual malicious intent. The moment I learned of the legit site, I was ecstatic. Since I wanted more such games to get licensed and released, I gladly deleted the pirated files and supported Peter Payne’s licensing attempts with a small splurge: Kana and Tokimeki included. So, in some way, pirating might have helped get some people aware of the product. Though knowing of fan-translations does imply an existing awareness already.

Now give me my Cat Girls already! The beta announcement made me impatient… :? .

#44

The argument in favor of fan translation essentially echoes the debate over fansubs. And aside from a handful of success stories, shows that did well on the fansub circuit did not really translate that well into successful domestic releases. Azumanga Daioh is a big exception: the series is full of heavy Japanese culture references, so it was likely going to be passed up. It was popular on the fansub circuit, though, so ADV took a chance. It paid off.

But Pioneer (later Geneon) went broke chasing those kinds of otaku-appeal shows.

As well, the situation has changed dramatically. Ten or fifteen years ago, the anime market was very very small, and almost everything was either fansub, or not at all. Back when it was so niche, I think it’s pretty clear from hindsight that fansubs helped at that time.

All markets have a saturation point: where everyone who might be interested in your product knows you exist and have either bought one, or decided not to. The argument that fansubs (and hence fan translations) help has a lot of truth when the market is much lower than saturation point because there are lots of people who might be customers but don’t know you exist or even that they might like what you make, because they’ve never heard of anything like your product. Fansubs are great for word of mouth.

But when the market is mature, you don’t really get any new customers by word of mouth anymore. The effect of pirate copies of (say) Halo on generating new sales via increased exposure is just … a bad joke.

So I think, that for the moment, fan translations help. The people making them only release patches, and aren’t pirates directly. Even though 95+ percent of the people using the patches do hoist the Jolly Roger. There are still too many people who probably would like these games, if they’d ever tried them, but have never heard of them. Look at the sales for things like Negima and Onegai Teacher. H-games (which don’t really go THAT far beyond some of the most fanservice heavy material available) should theoretically appeal to large chunks of the people who like these shows. Yet they aren’t buying.

But if the market really is taking off, and MangaGamer doesn’t implode, Kitty dramatically expands their game line, etc etc - then fan translations can change to being a detriment really fast.

#45

I think there’s some key differences between eroge translations and fansubbed anime however. Operating on the assumption that fan-translated games or related games from the same company will almost never get localized (as game selection seems more dictated by Japanese contacts than market preference), you don’t have the “demo effect.” You can interest more people in the genre perhaps, but fan translations aren’t going to promote individual games like fansubs promote individual anime. Of course the flipside is that fan translations won’t be competing for sales over the same localized game. Another key difference is that eroge playing is a private affair, whereas anime watching is often done in a group setting. This difference affects the dynamics of the “worth of mouth” effect on sales–you’re probably much more likely to gain a sale from a person learning about a show in real life (at an anime club for example) than from a person learning about a game on a pirate forum. This difference also reflects a difference in attitude towards eroge and anime–being an anime fan is something one can brag about, and having a shelf full of anime in shiny boxes is a good way to do that. Being a hentai fan is…less something to brag about to your real life friends. And if in fact you want to hide that preference, a physical box is actually less desirable than a digital copy.

Paying anime fans are generally collectors. The stigma towards eroge inhibits that collector’s spirit, which is a serious problem facing the industry.

#46

I have my erogame DVD cases in my shelf, though mixed with my anime DVDs so they don’t stand out as much. I’m assuming everyone who’s been to my room more than once has noticed though and that we’re just keeping it at “don’t ask, don’t tell” >_> .

I’m not going to try and find out if that really is the case.

#47

I have my eroge cases out in plain sight. Everyone can see my love for erotica.

Though I did buy one hentai DVD that wasn’t what I expected… until I sold it back I hid that. But then that wasn’t just from the world, I tried to hide it from myself as well.

#48

I just keep them on the shelf because hiding them some place where they eventually and inevitably get found is an admission of guilt, which I don’t have. I’m just assuming no one wants to know. Virgin Roster (which I regret buying) was given the least visible spot though. Ugh.

#49

I used to hide my stash because I wasn’t mature enough to not care if people found it. (This was a long time ago.)

I keep hiding it because I realized many people don’t really want to know. It’s essentially impolite to let them find the stuff.

#50

Then be polite and stop hiding the stuff, so that they don’t have to find it themselves! :slight_smile:

#51

I have mine in pretty plain site, though they’re sorted so only the side labels of the boxes show, though that’s more of a convenience thing than anything else.

#52

I’ve got mine out in plain site, too. They take up a couple shelves in one of my bookcases, right below my manga collection. That said, the most porn-like title in my collection is Private Nurse, so it’s not really too obvious.

#53

I keep some in my bookcase, some on my desk, others in the Eroge Box (which is basically the whole double wardrobe now). Blame the eroge companies for making the boxes so goddamn big.

#54

I have my games out in the open too. They’re on a bookshelf in my room, although only the side labels are visible. I sorted them that way so I can get at them easier instead of having them piled up on top of one another.

#55

All in the eroge cupboard. Starting to run out of room, so I might need to move some onto my bookshelf/desk soon.

#56

I kind of wished eroge manufacturers would do what the American game manufacturers did years ago, which was to move to the smaller packaging. You’d think that given how crammed apartments are in Japan, they’d prefer smaller packaging. XD

#57

Mine are pretty much in plain sight. I figure if a person knows me well enough to be allowed in to my space, they already know I enjoy these games. That said however, there are some boxes which are a little too bold. For example, while I would be perfectly alright with displaying the front of the case for CSMT2, the back of the CRC box I’d rather not show.

#58

True! lol
But dunno, I never did like the move to smaller packaging, even if it is more practical. The fancy packaging is an incentive for shelling out the extra money for physical products over digital counterparts… The basic DVD cases for english releases are kinda dull in my opinion, and I love special edition packaging xD

I’ll take a creative box like this :
http://gillianseed.free.fr/Pics/ys/ys6le-box.jpg
any day over this :
http://bulk.destructoid.com/ul/user/2/2 … G-468x.jpg

…with that said, I keep my stuff in drawers :stuck_out_tongue: But, neatly and in mint condition :slight_smile:
The low prices for the english games make it much easier for me to write off the purchases and be happy about spending the money even if the original box looked better.
MangaGamer on the other hand kinda messed it up for me when they charged decently high prices for digital products and gave me Edelweiss… and never fixed it up to basic standards … Can’t forgive them!!! :oops:

#59

The ones I’ve played are in a box, the ones I have yet to play are on a shelf or scattered around one of my computers. I suppose if people want to see my Berserk and Vagabond mangas, and my Shigirui anime, a couple of boobies won’t hurt either.

I also have yet to try out a fan translation, but mostly because I’m just lazy and I don’t want to search around for stuff. If I can just buy it and have it shipped to me, that’s easy enough for my lazy ass. Still a fairly solid supporter of Jast and have bought the 3 Kitty media games I know of, among a few other titles from now defunct companies. I have more time to play now because I moved out and live by myself now, some friends but I mostly keep to myself so that means plenty of gaming time.

#60