Princess Maker 2 beta

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#21
quote:
Originally posted by ScorpioMysterica:
Number 1, was the fact that it was dated and if they released a version of PM they would want a newer version, not PM2.

Even a newer version though I think would be welcomed, and I think they overstate the dated aspect. As I said I think in another thread, if whoever made Space Invaders can convience places to carry the original version and have that make money, I think a lot of us would spend maybe 20 or so dollars for the older version of Princess Maker. Still I would not object to PM4 or whatever they are up too now being brought over.

However being difficult to work with is another issue entirely, and if it is the reason you said, that is what I have been saying, why should they spend money to sell something people are stealing for free?

#22
quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
Well, it should be pretty obvious: the three of them are completely different words with completely different meanings! Honestly, as a non-English speaking person, I'm always amazed about how possibly an English-speaking person can mix a possessive adjective with the contracted form of a subject and its verb! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/confused.gif[/img]

Well, I was joking about spending "minutes" at it. I'm not that bad. But because my typing is based off my speech patterns, homonyms cause problems with that. The sentences are recited in my head as sounds not as actually spelled words and my fingers just sort of go along and type whichever particular spelling comes up first in my head. ("their", "they're" and "there" is another group that gets mixed up in my typing alot.) That's why every so often when I've talked about grammar, I mentioned that I usually go by what "sounds" right. It's only later if I'm proofreading (going from a sound based evaluation to a visual based one) that I usually realize that I goofed up or not.

But to tell you the truth, I think what happened in this particular case was that I had retyped my sentence. My original sentence was "You're basing your claim of being 'legal' off of some very shaky logic." I thought that sounded a bit confusing, so I redid the sentence, incorrectly in this case. (Or you can just go under the assumption that my brain is damaged, I can live with that...)

Er, sorry, really off-topic...
Actually, I wouldn't mind a really good raising sim to cover over as well. Would be nice. It's just that the ones that have come over havn't really done all that well. There's the PM2 fiasco we're discussing, Graduation tends to be under the radar for most and has a very terrible dub on it, and Maid's Story, hmm, biggest complaint I hear is about the mosaics but I also here quite a few complaints about it being very repetitive. (Never understood that complaint since by their very nature, these types of sims are repetitive.)

#23
quote:
You might be destorying any future chance by bootlegging

Who's to say that if I stop bootlegging it together with my buddy, that it will be released? Who's going to go all over the Internet to delete them, as well as in everyone's home? The chance was already long destroyed before I got to the game.
Also, Gainax offered it for download. They obviously didn't care anymore, and they have the right to give it away if they want to. It was dated at the time (and still is).
quote:
You have to do things legally especially with these games or you are harming the industry.

But the things is, I CAN'T buy it legally.
BUT, if Princess Maker 2 is ever released legally, I'll buy it, certain.
quote:
Is it incompetence to go bankrupt or just not enough of a marketshare at the time they were in business?

I was referring to the fact that they never published the game, not even after bankruptcy.
quote:
Let me ask you this, what if I am right, what if you as a consumer, that might be admitting to not being one since consumer implies purchase, and those like you bootlegging it are the very cause of your need to[S]o[/S] bootleg, would you stop and wait for a legal fully finished copy or continue to take this one for free?

I didn't start the bootlegging circle. It was already all over the Internet when I got to the Internet.
I would gladly buy the game when it's published.
quote:
but I also [u]here[/u] quite a few complaints

=hear (to hear)
[img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by Benoit (edited 02-27-2004).]

#24

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=ja_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gainax.co.jp%2Fsoft%2Fprima2_refine%2F…%2Fprimas%2Fpmaker2.html

What do we have here?
Game outdated? I think not!

#25

So because you did not start bootlegging it is okay to bootleg? Does that mean it is also okay to rob your neighbors since you would not be the first in history to do that? Your defense of your actions lacks both logic and legal justification for an illegal act.

True, two people alone will not make all bootlegging vanish over night, but if you start a trend to stop it, and yes one person can start a trend, make a difference, it might slowly over time erode most bootlegging. All will not vanish quickly, because people think along your lines of I want and this is how I will get so I will get it, without thinking the consequences.

Prove to me since you seem to believe it is not a reason, for my evidence is in what is on going, prove to me that bootlegging is not one of the causes of their lack of releasing the game, note I said one of the causes not the only cause.

No one can delete it from places on the internet which is an illogical argument to bring up. In some ways the internet is like some New York City street corners I have seen, where you can buy almost anything from watches to DVD’s of movies still in the theaters, but just because you can buy it does not mean you have the legal right to or should buy it. Your actions are I want so I take, is that truly justifible actions for a fan of the game who might be part of the cause, yes one small part but still part of the cause, it is not being sold?

#26
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
http://babelfish.altavista. com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=ja_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.gainax.co.jp%2Fsoft%2Fprima2_refine%2F..%2Fprimas%2Fpmaker2.html

What do we have here?
Game outdated? I think not!

As much as it pains me to say it I will use reasons I have heard others use for games being outdated. Music is mostly mid or midi (whichever is correct), there are no voice actors/actresses, the graphics are not what people have become use to in terms of quality and style from recent games, in terms of interface style, while still seen is slightly older then styles that are more common in games today.

In those ways it is outdated, even if I agree that it would sell if made and perhaps sold in a bundle with Princess Maker 1 and Princess Maker 3 for around 30 or 40 dollars for all three games, I sadly have to agree the game is in many ways outdated.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 02-27-2004).]

#27
quote:
Originally posted by ekylo:
(...)Actually, I wouldn't mind a really good raising sim to cover over as well. Would be nice. It's just that the ones that have come over havn't really done all that well. There's the PM2 fiasco we're discussing, Graduation tends to be under the radar for most and has a very terrible dub on it, (...)

Is Graduation still for sale? I have been checking some places for a while now but they each send me to each other as places that might have it, so I am just wondering if it is even still for sale?

#28
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Is Graduation still for sale? I have been checking some places for a while now but they each send me to each other as places that might have it, so I am just wondering if it is even still for sale?

Right Stuf should still have it. I don't think they've run out of stock yet.

#29

Cool thank you. Just run it under Windows 95 Compatability I take it?

#30

you may be interrested in this little bit of info.

http://www.gainax.co.jp/soft/prima2_refine/index.html

#31

Is that not an upgrade? That is they remade the old version? This one, if it has voices is news to me for nothing like that even existed as far as I know when the original beta was being tested, not to mention it was not on CD rom and not workable on Windows XP.

#32

Of course it’s an upgrade. Why do you think I posted the link to recenter versions of the game?
And compared to recent bishoujo games, I wouldn’t say that Princess Maker 2 is dated.

Here’s why the bootlegging is not the only cause, worded by Tim:

quote:
Finally, by January I realized that Intracorp was not much longer for this world, and tried to end our agreement. Now, my rights to Princess Maker 2 had expired by the time we licensed to Intracorp, so we actually had a three-way agreement between SoftEgg, Gainax, and Intracorp, which could only be ended by a signature of all parties. By this point, Jeff Sass was gone and I was dealing with the head guy Lee Rothschild. He didn’t want to end the agreement, but he finally agreed to end it as long as he was the last one to sign it. Nice stalling tactic. It takes time for me to get stuff through Gainax, and by the time they were ready to sign, Intracorp had gone into full bankrupcy and any attempt to end the agreement would end with the Florida state-appointed trustee assigned to liquidate the company, Marsha Dunn.

Summary: Tim wanted to end the agreement, but couldn’t, and then Intracorp went bankrupt, and the case was handed to a trustee…
quote:
Trying to deal with the trustee was impossible. I was never able to talk to her directly. At one point I was able to talk to her lawyer, but I soon realized that nothing good could come of this. They didn’t seem to have a copy of the contract regarding the game, and the lawyer asked me to send a copy. But something about his wording bothered me, and I realized that they might turn around and try to license the game to another company to help pay Intracorp’s debts. And since Intracorp was in bankrupcy, they probably didn’t have to pay anything to SoftEgg or Gainax. Now, if I hired a lawyer, I probably could have straightened things out, but it would have been a lot of money to spend to basically end an agreement and leave myself with no product and no rights. So I just let it go.

The trustee didn’t license the game to another company, and they didn’t have a copy of the contract. The trustee didn’t know or care about the license, and probably didn’t know about the bootlegging.
Plus it would have made no money to Gainax or SoftEgg.
Plus:
quote:
The 5 year contract with Intracorp expires in 2002

This is why we won’t see the game anymore now, bootleg or not.

#33

The first thing you have to learn is there is almost never a certainty in life. If they want to bring it over we will see it translated, but they have to have some desire other then to give an upgrade to those people bootlegging it, which is a reason I am still sure is one of the many they are not bringing it over, second that still does not justify bootlegging the current beta version. Third, I was unaware you posted the link under a different name or was that not what you meant?

#34

Personally, I think in many cases (not all) the detrimental effects of piracy are vastly overrated.

Because of the English beta being openly circulated for so long, thousands of people have heard of and enjoyed Princess Maker that never would have, otherwise. A smaller percentage of those people, self included, are perfectly willing, and in fact eager, to pay for a legal English copy of the game if it ever comes available - even if it is the EXACT SAME GAME that we already have bootlegs of.

Others, of course, would not bother to pay for something they have already played for free. However, if they played pm2 for free and loved it, they are far more likely to pay for a new Princess Maker game, should one ever become available.

Had I not played a bootleg copy, I might not be interested in the series at all. Who wants to play a game about dressing up a little girl? How dull. I certainly wouldn’t have purchased a copy of Graduation if not for Princess Maker. (Sadly, it’s not nearly as good.)

A potential good business move on Gainax’s part could be to get volunteers to finish translating the ancient-graphics version of pm2 English and release it for free - with advertising in it for the nice shiny new Pm2 Refine! (And/or any other pretty anime games.)

#35
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Personally, I think in many cases (not all) the detrimental effects of piracy are vastly overrated.

Had I *not* played a bootleg copy, I might not be interested in the series at all. Who wants to play a game about dressing up a little girl? How dull. I certainly wouldn't have purchased a copy of Graduation if not for Princess Maker. (Sadly, it's not nearly as good.)

Piracy is not overweighted to the extent you might think, because most places don't like piracy and do get pissed about having something given away for free that might then not allow them to make a profit off it if sold. Let's be honest, if you have something for free you might buy it someday later on, but if you had to choose between that game and another for the same cost a person would most likely go for the other first since they already have the one for free.

Second, they could have accomplished the same thing with a free demo, or you could take a risk and say "geez this might be interesting it is not what I typically like so I will go with it give it a try." Industries thrive on people trying things for the first time then becoming long term fans, bootlegging, which is illegal, is not neccessary to accomplish a taste of this type of game.

#36

Wasn’t saying people should encourage piracy in general, and of course a demo could have the same effect (How many english bishoujo releases have free demos? I can only think of one - Critical Point, and it was ENORMOUS, so nobody who wasn’t already pretty seriously interested was going to download it. )

Just that, since the english beta for Pm2 was already in distribution, this could be used as a good thing rather than held up as a reason for never giving us any more games. It has spread publicity and attention and familiarity with the genre. It has created a market.

Obviously if they did release pm3 in english it would be bad if it was immediately pirated and distributed to the same extent that pm2 has been.

#37
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
How many english bishoujo releases have free demos? I can only think of one - Critical Point, and it was ENORMOUS, so nobody who wasn't already pretty seriously interested was going to download it. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]
"Brave Soul" had a playable demo available for months before its release...

#38

I meant was there everan english release. I know of the beta. If anyon thinks that game will ever see a real release they are smoking way to much crack.

#39