Princess Maker 2 beta

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#1

After reading
http://princessmaker.maison-otaku.net/interview.html
and
http://www.softegg.com/PM2_P1.HTML
I’m a bit confused.

Tim says that it’s illegal to own, even after his contract has ended. Yet, at the same time, he says in the end of the interview “Continue to enjoy Princess Maker 2.”. Strange, no?

What’s even stranger is that the English beta of the game could be downloaded from GAINAX’s site back in the day, when they were still friendly.

What do you all think?
As a matter of fact, since I own the Saturn JP version of the game, I know at least I’m legal.

#2

I think that before the U.S. Surpreme Court made it’s ruling on copyright laws, you saw a lot more games for download on the net made by people whose contracts had long since expired. Some of these were games that are now so outdated you have to be old enough to remember the joys of a type control interface where “pick up the flower” might do nothing, but “pick up the british red rose” works perfectly. So that is my take on what happened with the game no longer being able to be downloaded. Companies based in the U.S. have to obey that ruling even if it is at times, and this is my opinion, questionable within the large gray area it leaves people.

As to why he said what he said I think he doesn’t want people to download copies but at the same time is admitting it will happen so as long as it is he hopes they truly enjoy the game. Once more that is my take, what’s anyone else’s?

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 02-26-2004).]

#3

But what’s your take on Gainax offering the beta version for download?

#4

You said ‘back in the day’ which I take it means they are not doing it now? If they are not I think it is because of the general copyright protection ‘fetish’ that has been going on with people recently, as seen by the U.S. Surpreme Court ruling. I am not saying it is wrong to protect copyrights, just that as recently as three years ago fewer people raised voices in concern, for numerous reasons, but more have start to now and I think that is part of it.

If they still offer it, maybe they have some sort of deal to be the ‘exclusive’ site to legally offer downloads, I highly doubt that, but it is one possibility.

#5

To be nitpicky, since he never specified that people should enjoy the English beta version of Princess Maker 2, he could be refering to the Japanese version. While I doubt that’s what he means, it keeps him from getting into any legal trouble…

He himself in the interview pretty much says “I am now contractually obligated to make sure that nobody can get copies of the pirated version of the game” So what he’s doing is being honorable and fulfilling the terms of his contract, even when it’s probably not in his best interest and whether or not the other parties are fulfilling their parts. And especially with Intracorp being bankrupt, he cann’t be giving them an opening for them to sue him. (After all, sueing is the new way to make money nowadays… )

And personally, I would be careful with your comments Benoit-san. You’re reasoning as to whether you’re “legal” or not is a bit shaky. It’s like saying I’m legally protected owning a fansubbed copy of an anime because I have the legal DVD of it. Owning a legally licensed copy of a product does not give you the right to retain an illegally produced or owned product. Plus, we’re talking about different versions on different platforms, which usually involves a different license. Having a playstation 2 version of the game doesn’t convey any right to having an illegal X-Box version of the same game.

#6

Maybe, but since I have an original copy, I should be allowed to play the English beta that Gainax made downloadable on their site. We’re talking Gainax himself here!

Oh, and…

quote:
You’re reasoning as to whether you’re “legal” or not is a bit shaky.

I just hate to see this.
“Your reasoning” is the correct grammar.
“you’re” is short for “you are”.
And while I’m busy…
“it’s” is short for “it is”, so when you are talking about someone’s bear, you don’t say “it’s bear” but “its bear”.

The self-proclaimed grammar guru has spoken. :stuck_out_tongue:

#7

But you’re talking about an original copy of a different language version on a different platform. Generally licenses are a bit specific to those types of things. Also, the question becomes, was Gainax within it’s rights to distribute a beta version of the software since Intercorp was supposed to have had the distributing license.

Don’t worry about correcting my grammar. I tease the others about their grammar often enough, and fair is fair. You should see me when I’m sitting here trying to figure out if it’s “to”, “too” or “two” I should be using in a sentence…

#8

Within copyright law, and I know very little specifics just what I remember reading around the time of the U.S. Surpreme Court ruling, but it does not matter if you legally own 82 different verisons of a product. If one is not for sale and is not up for legal download, it does not matter who is giving it either, you do not have a legal right to download it, and therefore must be very careful about assuming that just because Person X, whoever they might be in relation to the product, is offering it, they are in the right to offer the product.

#9

So we’re doomed to bootleg the beta version of Princess Maker 2 until the end?

#10

First of all I would not admit to bootlegging (not that you are just hinting it is the only recourse is bad enough), especially to people that have already expressed how much they dislike pirating of software. Nor is bootlegging anything I would do as well as anything that I will actively or publicly condone.

Secondly, it is possible, just possible that the fact it is being bootlegged so much is what is preventing any company from thinking the game profitable enough try and cut a deal to make legal copies of the game to sell to those of us wanting them, and the other copies of Princess Maker that exist, I think they are up to three or four. Personally I think, is Intracorp the correct company to site here, is ticked at the bootlegging and that is partly why you don’t see any of the copies coming over through a different distrubtion company these days.

Even if they are bankrupt and based in the U.S., presumably they are under Chapter 13 Bankruptcy Protection (or the Japanese equivalent if they are based in Japan) which at least in the U.S. allows limited business to continue, meaning if they thought it profitable they could license this game still to be sold over here, make a profit which they might never see, but would go to pay off some of their debt, so I am not sure their being bankrupt would be an end all cause of their choice not to release translations, if I have the right company in mind as the owners of the game’s copyright.

Even if I have the wrong company and sited only the distribution company, I don’t think the copyright owning company is thrilled at the mass bootlegging and truly feel that is one of the reasons why we don’t see these games even in bundles over here, they are getting their ‘revenge’ in the way that they can, not giving us all the games legally. Sure it’s not the only reason but I do think it is one of the reasons at least behind close doors.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 02-26-2004).]

#11

What does that mean in English?
confused

#12

Which part do you mean? The fact that bootlegging is illegal, the fact that if you continue to bootleg you are perhaps destorying any chance for this game to come over because why would people pay for something they already got for free? The fact the company that makes the game and has the say on it coming over here might be ticked that one version is being bootlegged and less likely to release that one or any other version over here for purchase for the aforementioned (previously stated) reason and in part to get some sense of ‘revenge’ against those bootlegging their game?

Or which part can I help to clarify?

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 02-26-2004).]

#13
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
"you're" is short for "you are".

*snip*

The self-proclaimed grammar guru has spoken. :P

You didn't capitalize this sentence.

#14
quote:
Originally posted by ekylo:
You should see me when I'm sitting here trying to figure out if it's "to", "too" or "two" I should be using in a sentence...
Well, it should be pretty obvious: the three of them are completely different words with completely different meanings! Honestly, as a non-English speaking person, I'm always amazed about how possibly an English-speaking person can mix a possessive adjective with the contracted form of a subject and its verb! [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/confused.gif[/img]

#15

can ou buy the game in english? no, was it ever in english? no
just downloadn it.

#16

As a consumer, I want to play the game. The only way to do that is bootlegging it. So I bootleg it. But not without showing my dedication and desire to be legal by buying the Saturn JP version.
Intercorp has failed miserably to publish the game, and there’s no reason why they would turn around now when they could have done so at the very beginning.
So I’m not destroying any chance. It was already destroyed to begin with due to Intercorp’s incompetency.

#17

You might be destorying any future chance by bootlegging, and once again, as a general rule it is not a good thing to admit to have already committed one and be willing to to continue to commit that crime when you in a public place, which you are now and which you are doing by admitting you are bootlegging the game.

As I said, so you legally own one copy so what, I legally only first editions of some books, but that does not mean I can go into bookstores and just take the second or third editions which might have the original drawings placed in the corrected order. You have to do things legally especially with these games or you are harming the industry.

Is it incompetence to go bankrupt or just not enough of a marketshare at the time they were in business? I do not know, but I know takes moxie to say you want something and if this is the only way to get it well too bad that is how you will do it. It is the attitude of some people from the U.S. as a U.S. citizen I hate seeing, it is an attitude when so openly displayed, that can make people from the U.S. look even more like a people with mass arrogance who take what they want no matter the cost to other people. Not saying that is you, just saying that is what such an attitude of take because it is my right, looks like to me and others I have talked to in the past.

Let me ask you this, what if I am right, what if you as a consumer, that might be admitting to not being one since consumer implies purchase, and those like you bootlegging it are the very cause of your need too bootleg, would you stop and wait for a legal fully finished copy or continue to take this one for free?

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 02-27-2004).]

#18
quote:
Originally posted by smog:
can ou buy the game in english? no, was it ever in english? no
just downloadn it.

There was at one time an attempt to bring it to English, but only a Beta copy was ever made, not finished fully as far as endings go from what I understand and some text never finished either or so say some of those that post stories of Beta testing the game, but they never made a full legal copy to sell over here, at least in PC format.

#19
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
As a consumer, I want to play the game. The only way to do that is bootlegging it. So I bootleg it. But not without showing my dedication and desire to be legal by buying the Saturn JP version.
If you have the Saturn version, you can play the Saturn version. "The only way to do that is bootlegging it"? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/rolleyes.gif[/img]
Yeah, looks like there are other ways.

[This message has been edited by olf_le_fol (edited 02-27-2004).]

#20

Eh, I care not to get into the debate etc., but what I would like to say is that I would LOVE to have some sort of “raising/rearing” game besides Graduation (and The Maid’s Story… although I don’t personally count that as a “rearing” type game) …

I can dream that someday Gainex will release some version of Princess Maker, but many moons ago when I asked (I think it was Peter, but I don’t really remember who it was. This was around 1998/99, it’s been a few years…) about it (and at the time I was using a different email address)I was told (by whoever this was…) that there were two problems with getting Princess Maker Released.

Number 1, was the fact that it was dated and if they released a version of PM they would want a newer version, not PM2.

Number 2, they indicated that Gainex was VERY difficult to work with … the reason being because of piracy problems etc. Gainex didn’t see a reason to go through the trouble of spending out the money to make the game when so many people already seemed to own it (illegally of course).

That’s what I remembering hearing… Although we all know that sometimes memory isn’t always accurate and we all, sometimes, tend to misplace or misunderstand facts. So I might be doing that now as well… I do remember asking about it at some point and time though and getting a pretty detailed answer back on why that (a release) didn’t seem to be possible…