Question: Game Genres

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#81
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Well obviously the first ones I would try are perhaps the first three or four Princess Makers since there are many sites I have seen in English requesting them,
OK. Princess Maker is a good series. I'd be willing to pay for those games. The trouble is, according to Jinnai
quote:
Well the other problem is esssentially Gainax signed the rights for all non-japanese translations of all princess maker games to a firm in taiwan. i can't remember its name offhand, but that is why there are chinese translations and i guess they have enough of a korean market as well since its nearby.
So now you've got to negotiate with this Taiwanese company, or Gainax, or maybe both to acquire the rights to publish. In addition, Gainax still bears a grudge about the failure to release PM2 because of some last minute decision to censor the graphics. Good luck hacking your way through that tangled field. Others have tried.
quote:
Or perhaps some of the many tied into anime or manga, such as Eva games, perhaps slightly newer To Heart, and Comic Party
Wait a minute. Now you're talking about games that have yet to be localized. That contradicts your idea of lowering development costs by taking already translated games and relying on nostalgia to generate sales. What you're describing is equivalent to the process undertaken by PP and GC. No easy way out there.

I would love to see games from Key and other publishers that have achieved popularity in Japan be brought over here. What are you going to say to the owners to convince them that you can succeed where others have failed? If you know something that Payne-sama doesn't about doing business with the Japanese, I'm sure he'd welcome your advice.

It sounds like you're moving away from the idea of bringing back previously released titles and just making up a new wish list. There's nothing wrong with that, but until you find a winning strategy to make it happen, don't complain about the English game makers' lack of vision. It takes more than a fervent desire to make some b-game available. It's not a question of taking risks. It's a matter of acquiring rights, assigning people to work on it and managing a successful business. I think the revolutionary new products your professor is referring to are those over which you have control, ideas that you can turn into reality through your own efforts, and not just complaining about the current state of affairs.

Sorry if I seem harsh in my criticism. It's not directed against you, SCDawg. It just sounds like you haven't thought out any of the details. You have an idea, but no plan for achieving it.

#82
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
Wait a minute. Now you're talking about games that have yet to be localized. That contradicts your idea of lowering development costs by taking already translated games and relying on nostalgia to generate sales. What you're describing is equivalent to the process undertaken by PP and GC. No easy way out there.

This is basically the whole reason I keep insisting that the idea is doomed. It is not a cheap and short task to localize one of these games from scratch, and you want to bundle several for the price one would fetch? Unlikely to succeed.

For this to have ANY chance WHATSOEVER of success, you need several things to happen:

1) A large collection of older titles that are worth translating AND so old that the Japanese companies will let you have them cheap AND can still be easily uncensored

2) A generic b-game engine that any standard ADV can easily be ported to with a minimum of fuss.

If you can get both of these things, you MAY be able to make this work but it will be hard to do properly. But to get the first item, requires hanging around and waiting for a few years. Most of the titles people claim are worth translating are too recent for a Japanese company to look at and say "eh, we don't care about that title anymore; take it".

This is essentially the Ted Turner strategy (the Turner Classic Movie channel): license a whole bunch of movies at cutthroat prices, because they're worthless old relics anyway. Turn it into something valuable.

#83

… the average choose-your-own-adventure b-game engine is not terribly difficult, I whipped up a quickie one myself in just a few minutes. Give me a set of graphics and a script and I’ll make you a game.

(Actually, the main problem my system has is that it doesn’t cope too well with high-color graphics. So it would be much SIMPLER for me to shove out fast translations of 256-or-less color games than to make anything recent/cool-looking.)

Figure out how much someone wants for the rights to such a game and raise the funds. (And, alas! Here is where the system breaks down. I personally just don’t have a lot of free capital to invest in such a venture, and I doubt any company’s going to give me their games for a couple hundred.)

#84

papillon, I visited your site, and I’m impressed! Those look like cool little games. I tried Classroom Chaos, and I like it!

You may want to revise your system specs, though…

quote:
Windows 98+ (98,NT,2000,XP)
800x600 resolution
32bit color
Mouse required
5 MB disk space

It worked on my Windows 95.
800x600 resolution is indeed needed.
32-Bit color?! The game looks like only 256 colors are needed. At any rate, I could run it on my 24-Bit color setting.

From the looks of the mouse animation, it looks like I need a slightly more powerful system of graphics card than mine to run this properly, unless this is normal. From the looks of it, I should be able to run it flawlessly, though.
But it was very playable, in any case. I got a B, and a teaching degree of 85%! Anyone got more on his first try?
I’m bad at popularity level, though.

#85

The engine isn’t guaranteed for Win95. So I don’t want to say it’s supported, just in case something goes wrong. I don’t have a copy of Win95 around to test on! Which may or may not be making it run a little slower on your setup. As I said, can’t test it. Would love to get some more machines to do better testing on… as soon as people give me enough money.

85% is very good for your first try!

#86

Hey, where’s your site at? I wanna see, I wanna see…

#87

On the second page of this topic, somewhere in the middle of it, he mentions his site…

http://www.hanakogames.com

#88
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
It sounds like you're moving away from the idea of bringing back previously released titles and just making up a new wish list. There's nothing wrong with that, but until you find a winning strategy to make it happen, don't complain about the English game makers' lack of vision. It takes more than a fervent desire to make some b-game available. It's not a question of taking risks. It's a matter of acquiring rights, assigning people to work on it and managing a successful business. I think the revolutionary new products your professor is referring to are those over which you have control, ideas that you can turn into reality through your own efforts, and not just complaining about the current state of affairs.

Actually they have been previously released over there and that is ALL I was ever talking in previous released games which was what you asked me in your question. I also never said anything about previously released in this market, old style is old style, be it because of CG, be it because of a point system (which I have not seen in years) or because of no voices, old style is old style. Also remember all these games have been previously released just not here so yes there is the importing but that is why I said cut corners while staying legal and as much quality as possible, if need be through patches rather then complete redoing of the games.

Other old games that might do well over here are surely more known to those directly tied into the market and titles I might recognize when I hear but not until that time. DOR is one that was not heard of until here, and from what I understand was not that huge of a success in Japan either, a good one but not one that got enough rave reviews to think it might do well elsewhere.

As to the other titles that might be older and "unknown", yes some would probably be very popular and therefore probably not "old" titles, like Tokimeki Memorial but at least by me and other friends who don't even know Bishoujo games, that was a title that was heard about long and one they too are interested in playing.

No I actually talked to my professor about this in an e-mail yesterday and he actually agrees that if need be you force your way into these people's offices you prove to them from example the games that have already done well, showing the market is not what it was when the first attempt at games such as Princess Maker 2 was done years ago and is both worthy of a second chance and would behoove these companies to get in on the ground floor.

Yes the price might go up from some of the games I mentioned, but they are in a sense older games, to us here, yet keep in mind you also up the possible ante in terms of profit by tying these games into something already more profitable. Also it is a risk, forget getting rights for a moment, forget that process, the risk is still in having a game that sits on the shelf and is NEVER sold after going through that process. Imagine forcing that process, pushing, shoving, demanding, and then you have something no one buys, that is the risk your company would never get another game again.

Also how have these people gone to companies like Gainax and asked, begging or slightly more forceful while not outrightly demanding? If it is begging then I understand why Gainax has thus far said no way.

#89
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
This is basically the whole reason I keep insisting that the idea is doomed. It is not a cheap and short task to localize one of these games from scratch, and you want to bundle several for the price one would fetch? Unlikely to succeed.

Well how CHEAP was it for the first company to go over and say "um gee you know um we um want to translate say um this game" and who cares what game it was, it was for a market that might NEVER have been sold such a game before without tying it into a game system. Was that cheap or was that EXPENSIVE? If it was EXPENSIVE then that idea too should have been DOOMED, but if it was DOOMED then all of us would not be on this board because this company here would not exist. Because something is expensive and seemingly impossibely hard does not make it doomed.

Well then do that and prove to people, as Ted Turner did, these movies which no one wanted are suddenly worth something, get games which long ago did well in Japan, no not more DOR games which I have heard had mixed success even in Japan, but ones that long ago there was no question about but that they are willing to give for cheap prices and do that, open this market to the older games that way so then the more recent older games can also be brought over.

Hey Turner Classic Movies spawned several "copy-cats" like Fox Movie Channel, so it could work with these games.

#90
quote:
Originally posted by perigee:
[Sorry if I seem harsh in my criticism. It's not directed against you, SCDawg. It just sounds like you haven't thought out any of the details. You have an idea, but no plan for achieving it

No did not seem harsh at me and I have thought it out, you put out a lot of cash up front, which you beg or borrow if need be, and in return take a risk through wheeling and dealing with these companies to get the rights knowing if you fail your out money and out ever standing another chance to get such games.

Also I am use to it, no one truly ever stands with me on many issues, and you know what there are an amazing amount of times I am proven right on such ideas, at least six or seven out of ten which is not a bad track record. Means I am wrong too, and this could be one of the three or four I am wrong, but what if it isn't? Well if it isn't and this works in five years there will suddenly be many people saying how they knew this should have been tried five years ago if things hold to the usual for such issues upon which people swear I am wrong.

Can you do me a favor though, or anyone here, instead of telling me "oh this won't work because" see if you can find a way to "Make It Work" cheaply and quality since you perhaps know the behind the scenes better then I do, and don't simply say there is not a way, see if there is one. Everyone is trying so hard to show me why it will not work, has anyone bothered to see if there is a way that it might work even if that way is a long shot?

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 07-29-2004).]

#91
quote:

On the second page of this topic, somewhere in the middle of it, he mentions his site...

SHE! SHE!

(Amusingly enough, of course, this is the one place where someone could look at my site and still think I'm a boy. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Most people go pretty quickly through the flowers-cute-anime = girlstuff mental checklist.)

I'm really not kidding about the simplicity of programming a basic multiple-choice digital novel, though. (Princess Maker is NOT a basic multiple-choice game.) PP probably works with the original filestructure rather than rebuilding the whole thing from scratch in a generic engine, which is what I'm talking about. Show/hide-able dialog windows, selectable choices, fast forward button, save/load, it's NOT HARD. The only reason I haven't released one yet is that I can't get the art for it. Art and the script and a couple months to plug it in and test it, no problem.

So, SCDawg, why don't *you* try contacting someone and find out what they'd want for the rights to an old game? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

[This message has been edited by papillon (edited 07-29-2004).]

#92

ponders in a dream state

New York Times Monday, July 19th, 2010

The Peach Princess Forum Ambassadors

Who would have thought that anime like choose your own adventure style visual novels could have lead to one of the most entertaining practices here in America.

No-one!!!

Yet, for one talented group of people lead only by a dream, they were able to make what was once unheard of a now very much sought after form of not only adult entertainment, but entertainment in general.

Meet the members of the Peach Princess Ambassador Club.

A preliminary group composed of (insert number) members dedicated to helping in the expansion of the Bishoujo Game industry in America through combining their multi talents together. Through a process of pooling talents together and discovering who is capable of doing what (programming, art, persuasive speaking, translating, marketing) the group, starting from their humble beginnings in August of 2004, now in 2010 has diversified and made the American Bishoujo Gaming world what it is today…

Sighs

Ooops, gotta go to work… darn and I was enjoying my little dream.

#93
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
No I actually talked to my professor about this in an e-mail yesterday and he actually agrees that if need be you force your way into these people's offices you prove to them from example the games that have already done well, showing the market is not what it was when the first attempt at games such as Princess Maker 2 was done years ago and is both worthy of a second chance and would behoove these companies to get in on the ground floor.
I wonder if your professor has had any experience dealing directly with Japanese firms? If you were to go breaking down doors over there, I expect the reaction you'd get would be more like Who let this barbaric gaijin in the building?

You have to understand the mindset of Japanese businessmen. It's not just about gaining market share and making profits. It's about avoiding failure, protecting image and saving face. Until you've actually established a relationship with the companies involved, your chance of brokering a deal is unrealistic. Maybe Peter can describe some of the obstacles he's had to overcome, if he happens to be reading this topic.

#94
quote:
SHE! SHE!

(Amusingly enough, of course, this is the one place where someone could look at my site and still think I'm a boy. Most people go pretty quickly through the flowers-cute-anime = girlstuff mental checklist.)


Whoops!
*rams head into wall*
I should have known that, since I read the About Us page of your website before making that post, if I remember correctly.
Sorry. ^_^;
quote:
dedicated to helping in the expansion of the Bishoujo Game industry in America

What is it with always America?
Give us Europeans a break, we're here too! >_<
#95
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Can you do me a favor though, or anyone here, instead of telling me "oh this won't work because" see if you can find a way to "Make It Work" cheaply and quality since you perhaps know the behind the scenes better then I do, and don't simply say there is not a way, see if there is one.
You can't very well ask your critics to solve the problem, when they don't accept your theory to begin with. If you really want to gain credibility for your ideas, you'll have to be the one to work out the details and show how it's more than just wishful thinking.
quote:
Everyone is trying so hard to show me why it will not work, has anyone bothered to see if there is a way that it might work even if that way is a long shot?
I think everyone is trying to find out if you have a real proposal or you're just blowing smoke. Again, it's your job to make it work. If you can't think of a way yourself, that should tell you something. I'm not going to try to convince you any more. I don't seem to be getting through, and further argument may result in bad feelings which wouldn't do either of us any good.

There's one last remark I'd like to address. Earlier you said people like you once thought such longshots as radio with pictures aka television ... were not worthy of the cost. When I was in school, many years ago now, I became interested in a company that offered a brand new technology with seemingly endless possibilities. I made it my goal to become part of that firm, worked for them a number of years and invested all the income I could afford in their stock. Now I own a house free and clear, drive an expensive car and never have to work another day of my life, if I so choose. It's ironic to be accused of shortsightedness. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]

#96

Of course it would help me if I knew what papillon is Anyway good to see we got another female forum member here

#97

Papillon is French for butterfly. It’s also the name of a 1973 drama starring Dustin Hoffman and Steve McQueen based on the true story of Henri Charriere’s unsuccesful escape attempts from a French penal colony.

#98