Quick question (might be dumb to all of you)

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#21
quote:
Originally posted by Wolfson:
The only problem I have is with the people who want to apply the "sex" label to bishoujo.[/B]

well i know that sex and hentai-ish labels Ecchi, shows and Love Hina, Ai Yori Aoshi, etc. that have scenes where you can see some breast without nipple or sexy bras and panties are ecchi shows in my opinion, why don't we just make a definition by ourselves for what Bishoujo is and what Shoujo is and what Shoujen and bishounen means. We should vote on it... everyone write what you think and the ones that sound most alike for one of the categories will be our definition. Also great job we have 33002 post marks

#22
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
[quote] Love Hina, for example, is NOT shoujo. It is bishoujo.

It's a shonen. [/quote]

That too. Generally, all bishoujo is shounen, unless it's aimed at lesbians. (There are probably exceptions...)

#23

Heh… well, all I know is that I don’t know for sure, since the terms are used so broadly. I just try not to lead the uninitiated astray…

#24


I’m no expert, just a random fan, but I’d only tag an anime as shonen if it involved lots of

1. Fighting
2. Car racing
3. Something else highly competitive, pointless, and boring, with lots of grunting.
4. Ugly people.

Love Hina looks far too cute and cuddly to be classed as a boy show to me. I’d assume it was intended for mixed audiences.

#25

Officially it’s still classified as shonen though. That’s also why you see fan service towards the boys in the manga/anime.

[This message has been edited by Benoit (edited 07-02-2004).]

#26
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Love Hina looks far too cute and cuddly to be classed as a boy show to me. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] I'd assume it was intended for mixed audiences.

I'm sorry, but I just don't think that's right. It is especially easy in the case of fan service heavy shows, to tell if it is shounen or shoujo. Shounen shows have naked girls running around. And they're all well-endowed. Shoujo shows have a bunch of well-built attractive men who like to walk around without shirts on or something. (Think Weibb Kreuz or Gravitation).

In the case of Love Hina I view it basically as a textbook case of a boy-targeting fan service show.

[This message has been edited by Nandemonai (edited 07-02-2004).]

#27

Right, Love Hina is clearly shounen, but girls like it too because it’s funny. That’s the thing about anime that non-fans can’t seem to grasp. It doesn’t matter if you’re the target audience or not, you can still like it. In fact, there are some shoujo style anime that are more popular among guys than girls in Japan, and vice versa. It just happens that way sometimes. Then you have anime like Ai Yori Aoshi, which is probably shounen because of the fan service factor, but clearly the “love” theme is stronger than the fan service theme. Newtype’s current issue points this out. And there are lots of guys and girls that like this series so it’s hard to place. Naturally, the best way to decide on this one is to look at it’s origin, which is the “YOUNG ANIMAL” magazine for guys. So it’s shounen after all, with strong shoujo tones to it. I like it. My LE copy of Ai Yori Aoshi Enishi shipped today, by the way.

#28
quote:
Originally posted by Sakamoto:
Alright I know I frequently hear female anime fans saying that shounen romances are shallow. That "Why would the [girl] actually like someone that boring and vanilla like that. The [girl] seems to like him for no reason."

Well it is primarily aimed at guys right? ^_^

"Female anime fans" nothing. This is one of my main criticisms of a great many shounen romance shows. Then again I am one of the weirdos who watches movies/anime and nitpicks the bad science...

#29

Didn’t say it was the officially accepted definition, just that it was what I thought it meant.

After all, I’m a girl and I’m fine with bouncing boobies.

So, okay, what genre term DO you use to describe stupid macho anime that tends to have ugly characters and gravitate around fight scenes, competition, and grunting? Other than “stuff I won’t watch”?

DBZ
Initial D
Ninja Scroll
Fist of the North Star

#30

Hey! I like DBZ!

#31
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
Hey! I like DBZ!

You'll grow out of it. Trust me. DBZ is perfectly fine and interesting. It's just that when compared to better shows, you realize just how formulaic it is.

#32
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
So, okay, what genre term DO you use to describe stupid macho anime that tends to have ugly characters and gravitate around fight scenes, competition, and grunting? Other than "stuff I won't watch"?

...

Fist of the North Star

I don't know about the rest, but I can comment on Fist. I had the "pleasure" of manning a video room at ACen while they were showing FotNS. It SUCKED biiiig time. It was laughable except of course it wasn't supposed to be a joke. At more than one point he uses his special move and tells his victim "I hit the deus-ex-machina nerve ending in your body. You will strangle yourself in 30 seconds" and (I swear to god) a [D]UCKING TIMER shows up on the screen and started counting down. It was terrible.

As for what I'd name these shows ... hmm, they're obviously shounen but that isn't good enough. I think shows like this generally fall into a specific subgenre of the shounen fighting anime. For lack of a better term I shall call it the Fisting genre (because it's an appropriately tasteless name).

#33
quote:
Originally posted by Nandemonai:
You'll grow out of it. Trust me. DBZ is perfectly fine and interesting. It's just that when compared to better shows, you realize just how formulaic it is.

I'm tired of people repeatedly saying this. Dragon Ball (Z) was a milestone in manga/anime, and when they start seeing other shows, they immediately say "OMG DBZ s0xrz".
Without Dragon Ball (Z), you can say bye-bye to the great shows of today, which would have nothing to base on.
#34


Shallow as I am, formulaic isn’t even that big a deal. I’m a happy Sailor Moon fan. (It’s a good series! Really! Okay, some of the episodes are really boring, but the underlying core of the story is good! Honest!)

I’ve just never found anything personally appealing about DBZ - the character designs are ugly (to me), can’t sympathise with any characters, and what little plot I’ve ever seen consisted of "Get stronger! Have a really long fight!"

And hey, Ninja Scroll’s supposed to be a classic, isn’t it? And I lumped it in the same bunch. So don’t feel too bad on my account.

#35
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
I'm tired of people repeatedly saying this. Dragon Ball (Z) was a milestone in manga/anime, and when they start seeing other shows, they immediately say "OMG DBZ s0xrz".
Without Dragon Ball (Z), you can say bye-bye to the great shows of today, which would have nothing to base on.

Oh please. That's not true. Dragon Ball Z was wildly popular because it did the same thing over and over again. The anime in particular went on and on and did things like "spend a whole episode powering up" when the equivalent thing in the manga is like "he powers up" on 2 panels.

I try to avoid shows of this nature. They don't interest me all that much. What shows in particular can you name that, were it not for DBZ, would be radically different and/or never have been made? Please be as specific as possible.

#36
quote:
Originally posted by papillon:
Shallow as I am, formulaic isn't even that big a deal. I'm a happy Sailor Moon fan. :) (It's a good series! Really! Okay, some of the episodes are really boring, but the underlying core of the story is good! Honest!)

::backs away slowly::


;)

[This message has been edited by Nandemonai (edited 07-03-2004).]

#37
quote:
Dragon Ball Z was wildly popular because it did the same thing over and over again. The anime in particular went on and on and did things like "spend a whole episode powering up" when the equivalent thing in the manga is like "he powers up" on 2 panels.

Not true at all. Having read most of the manga and anime of DBZ, I can say they are almost identical, and it's not just 2 panels.
Dragon Ball (Z) set the stage for the shonen manga. Even now, it's hard to say why this show was so popular and so good. The way it was graphically and how the plot was handled, and the fights, is a good part of the reason.
I could type up a whole French article about how it put the bases.

Without Dragon Ball (Z), you wouldn't have Hunter X Hunter, Shaman King, One Piece, to name a few.

#38
quote:
Originally posted by Benoit:
[quote] Dragon Ball Z was wildly popular because it did the same thing over and over again. The anime in particular went on and on and did things like "spend a whole episode powering up" when the equivalent thing in the manga is like "he powers up" on 2 panels.

Not true at all. Having read most of the manga and anime of DBZ, I can say they are almost identical, and it's not just 2 panels.
Dragon Ball (Z) set the stage for the shonen manga. Even now, it's hard to say why this show was so popular and so good. The way it was graphically and how the plot was handled, and the fights, is a good part of the reason.
I could type up a whole French article about how it put the bases.

Without Dragon Ball (Z), you wouldn't have Hunter X Hunter, Shaman King, One Piece, to name a few. [/quote]

1) I think Shaman King sucks. Hunter x Hunter I hear gets better but based off the first few episodes it sucks too. One Piece I like.

2) Even if DBZ spawned a genre, that doesn't make it good. I could make the same argument about Fist of the North Star. It was wildly popular. It was really long. It spawned countless imitators. AND IT SUCKS! It's terrible, it's a very good example of most of the things that are wrong with old school anime.

#39

Shaman King sucks by definition because it brings nothing new to the genre.

Dragon Ball is good because it had a structured plot that shonen base off these days.
And I did mention that it has quality that’s difficult to pinpoint. Maybe you don’t like it, but many others do…

#40

Well, the simple fact of the matter is that for Dragon Ball Z to be so popular, somebody must be liking it. I’m personally not interested in it, but since I tend to like stuff that other people aren’t too interested in, I don’t like to go around knocking anybody else’s taste in anime.