See how it can all get confusing? The lines really blur in b-games.
I just finished playing Crescendo and unlocking all the CGs. I must say it is the best bishoujo game I have played thus far. Kaori was my favorite. 
Because of this game, Iām switching my priorities: story first, then artā¦or music. Bah, I canāt decide. It was all fantastic. What other games have this kind of story depth?
I am wondering why ā¦ this is the 2nd thread that all you have posted was āā¦ā is everthing ok?
ā¦ ! (Looks at the clock)
JIAā¦NEā¦
[ 10-03-2006, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: 13th ]
Kana: Litte Sister is the other famous one with that depth.
Divi-DEAD, Desire and Eve: Burst Error (but not the latterās sequal) also, but it might be hard to find a copy of it. The best of those three is Divi-DEAD if only because the other two have only one ending and the Clinto jokes are overused. Desire is probably the least of the three, and even so its far more impressive than most of the titles that have come out since.
Then there is the very old Seasons of Sakura (which you can get in the JAST memorial collection). The grpahics are very dated, but the storyline is still one of the better ones, even my friend who hates the old games considers this one of his top picks.
I donāt think any of those titles have rape. Seasons of Sakura has the teacher giving Shinji some sex education and Desire has Makoto being coerced into sex. The latter is definatly the case because there is a scene where they discuss that and its mentioned she didnāt actually have to go along with it. She wasnāt forced. The scenes with Haruka in Divi-DEAD were supposably with on some level her permission.
Actually waitā¦Divi-DEAD does have a rape, though i canāt remember if there was an image. It was when they were gang-banging a girl during their revival cerimony. But it was so done in a way that it felt so remote.
ā¦
May I suggest you never again express this opinion to ANY woman, or ANY rape victim of either gender?
I canāt begin to express how deeply offensive this statement is, and Iām shocked that no one on the board has called you on it.
Maybe itās just because theyāre seeing it in the context of a fantasy - and yes, in the context of a fantasy, this is different than brutal rape and is much more fun to imagine.I would much rather read a sex story/game with this sort of rape in it than one in which the girl is being held down, painfully forced, and bleeding. In the context of a game this distinction makes sense.
But āno mental scarringā? Dude, if you think PHYSICAL injury is required to produce MENTAL scarringā¦ you are seriously screwed up. In fact, this scenario is even MORE likely to be mentally scarring than the āstandardā violent scenario, because of the immense craploads of guilt the victim is gonig to be faced with, from herself and from others around her like you who will try to tell her that she wanted it, she somehow invited it, it wasnāt a real violation, etc.
A simple violent-rape-by-a-stranger is actually not the hardest thing in the world to get over. It sucks. It hurts. But so does being hit by a car. Itās traumatic, but you recover. It was a physical injury.
Betrayal and emotional torture, now, those are very hard things to live with.
Since I doubt anyone here really wants to get into a painful discussion of real-world rapes, can I simply ask that you be more careful about stating what causes permanent mental scarring?
I fully agree with you Papillon, We have no right to judge a real rape victem, it is a mental thing that you have to live with forever, parinoid when your alone at night, jump at the littlest sound, and the last thing that they need to have someone say to them is, āIts all your fault, you wanted it, you asked for itā. This type of attitude towards rape victems is cruel, and if a rape victem is married or ever happend to get married, their would always be a gap between the 2 of them because of that mental violation, it brings back memories of the rape.
[ 10-03-2006, 12:50 PM: Message edited by: ms308680 ]
Papilln, Complete agreement. I said essentially the same thing earlier, but you expressed it much better and more forcefully. Thank you.
Regarding the XChange series. The rapes in that really bothered me. The main character is raped, and then once its over, just goes on like nothing happened. That always irritated me about the series. And in XC3 the shy girl rape, the one they edited this just really pissed me off. However I give props to the creators of XC3 simply because you can choose to not go through with the change, and because its possible to avoid the bus and for that matter being raped at all. Knowing that there are some decent paths available, made the bad ones somehow more palatable to me.
ā¦Agreedā¦toā¦Papillonā¦immediatelyā¦
afterā¦postā¦readā¦
I would have, but Iāve been skimming this thread ever since unmarked Crescendo spoilers started surfacing. (Itās taking me forever because Iām just not going to text skip through that game, so I have to play it over and over to get everything; this process goes very slowly ^_^)
It also didnāt hurt (help?) that I figured āwell, I seem to remember someone here talking about how rape wasnāt just an abstract thing for them; theyāll be way better than I at demonstrating why this is BSā.
Admittedly, I saw the comment earlier, but papillion put the words better than I ever could.
Itās more to rape than just the physical pain, but the mental torture. Anyone who plays āHitom ~ My Stepsisterā will remember this. Iām even surprised that some people can go as far to judge rape victims negatively. It really, really irks me.
tries to dig up an old BBS link but canāt find it
Iāll post it someday when I do.
~
At the same time, one should also feel empathy, not just for the rape victims, but also for the rapists themselves, esp. the ones who are not in control. While I know there are those whoa re in control of their actions, and those that actually never change afetr that evil deed, the ones that do and are genuinely guilty over their act should not be condemned themselves.
The world is as such.
reads Leo tolstoyās Redemption
I will also point out that most of the time, rape isnāt about sex; itās about power, control, fear.
Wait you can acoid thingā¦hmmm wait i seem to remember mentioned of something about avoiding the rape busā¦
hmmā¦its almost worth playing now since they brought back Chisoto, if they fix it upā¦
[ 10-04-2006, 03:20 AM: Message edited by: Jinnai ]
Rrrrrghā¦ You are going to see why I have driven so many flame threads into the groundā¦
The ignorance! Such incomprehensive spouts of obtuseness with a faint glimmer of sciolism! Papillon, your thoughts are so disorganized on this subject. It is somewhat difficult to address your individual points.
Uhhā¦ DUH I was talking about it in a fantasy sense! In fact it is likely that it can only take place in fantasy. I have heard of rape, and I have heard of coercion, but never a cross of both such as in my example, which is probably why there isnāt a word for it. If it took place in reality (assuming that is even possible), I have nothing to go on except an educated guess as to the reaction of the victim in such an instance. Read on.
In any other instance under any other subject, I would dismantle you. You obviously never took psychology nor do you retain any expertise regarding the human body, so I am going to assume that you are flying on emotion due to the nature of the subject which is an understandably common occurrence.
Post-traumatic stress disorder is the most common reaction to one who has been raped, and by saying that rape is merely a physical injury further proves your nescience on the matter. The orifices of the body have a high concentration of sensory nerve endings which under duress easily āoverloadsā many dendrites in the cerebellum, specifically in the hypothalamus and frontal lobes. The mental resistance augments of the psychological aspect of the injury, effectively catalyzing the extent of mental damage in the mind.
No, physical injury is not ārequiredā to produce mental scarring. I find your choice of words amusing. Your pathetic attempt at entrapment is glaringly easy to ascertain. In fact, I view you as my new verbal play toy for the next several posts, should you respond.
Such a migraine-inducing expression of proud ignoramus. Iāll bet you donāt even know that a person may be raped in the throat, not just vaginally or anally. Doctors must administer a general anesthetic before performing an upper endoscopy or computed tomography (sending a tube with a camera on the end of it to take pictures of the stomach) to prevent the onset of post-traumatic stress disorder, essentially preventing a throat-rape by the doctors. The unfortunate experience of being run over by a vehicle does not exact the same pain that is associated with the pain of rape, just as a headache feels different from a broken arm, or a burn feels different from a cut.
With all that said, let us move on to my controversial scenario. I was only referring to this act in bishoujo games, but since it has been taken out of context and into the real world, I shall indulge (or rather address) such a discussion.
The victim would NOT suffer from post-traumatic stress disorder in this case because of the lack of the physical pain necessary in this specific act. The presence of guilt is all but assured, but the mind-shattering condition of ātrueā rape is absent. The guilt would be directed toward oneself for feeling pleasure, however slight it may or may not be. Furthermore, a distaste, or even a distain for the perpetrator may arise, but this would take the form of the epitome of rudeness. This is a stark contrast to the fear and/or hatred of the mentally fragmentized victims of ātrueā rape.
I am not a proponent of the example I gave (in real life), but merely wished to point out that the consequences of one are far more severe than the other, which is why I tolerate (or maybe even enjoy) it in bishoujo games.
No you may not. As you (may) have noticed, I know what I am talking about. I, however, will make the suggestion that you do more research on topics that you discuss and that you avoid impulsive emotional outbursts if you wish to make a retort.
My statements may be barbed, but I think I got my points across.
Thank you. I have been mulling it over in my mind as to whether or not I wanted to get that one but now I know I want it.
I have Divi-DEAD, but I have yet to play it. And thanks for those other names. Iāll check them out.
[ 10-04-2006, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: Scipoten ]
Whoa! 
LOL That is a pretty common reaction for those who donāt know me. Iām kind at first until someone begins an assult ā then look out for hellfire and brimstone, lol. I can easily complete a 500 word report in about 2 hours. I just have a natural antipathy towards inimical actions taken against me, especially when the opposition has little or no knowledge on the subject.
Greatā¦ Iām using larger words again arenāt I? In truth, I didnāt want to post something like this. Others tend to avoid me thereafter because I intimiate them. There is a certain satisfaction knowing that one is uncontested in arguing/flaming on a forum, but it can get a little lonely when you post something in regular, calm threads and you end up killing it because no one wants to chat.
Please, continue the discussion. Donāt mind me, I am interested in othersā views. I was hoping to see Nargrakhan some more in this thread because he offers differing views on the subject than most of the rest of us, which always makes discussions more interesting, but I donāt think he likes the fact that he is so outnumbered.
With all due respect, Scipoten, I, too, got the impression that you were not only talking in the context of bishoujo games, but also real life.
Honestlyā¦for me? it was just a fantasyā¦'causeā¦weāre just talking about gamesā¦right?
Might I please ask that we keep the discussion a discussion and not a flamewar? Otherwise I think this thread will wind up locked very quickly.
waves hands rapidly
No, no, no. Treat me like a regular member.
I apologize if my original statements seemed out of the proper context. Perhaps I was misleading.
It was a statement of fact. While I do not want other members to be wary of me, I will neither renounce nor detract what I have said.