i can understand where they are coming from.
Slam head on keyboard, repeat.
No need to be that crushed because of that “oversight”!
Rules are not always set in stone - they can be changed/expanded if a need for that occurs.
If you follow Shingo’s link and take a look at the topic’s title, you will see that the forum rules have been edited on August 4th this year - I think it’s possible that this rule is a new one.
… and I think “may compromise the integrity of JAST USA products” is a very valid reason for such a step. After all, this isn’t a public speakeasy, but the company’s official BBS, whose products were in danger to be compromised.
Wow, Unicorn, calm down. jdcakes is fine. All he did was politely apologize for overlooking something in the rules. It’s no reason to bite his head off.
… w…w…what?
Could you refine your quote to more selectively highlight the ‘biting heads off’ thing? Because all I see here is a perfectly level-headed reply. Or you’re being sarcastic, in which case, ignore me =p In fact, rereading your post, I’m 95% sure you’re being sarcastic, and I have no idea why.
Anyway, the rule Shingo was talking about isn’t a new one, because I remember it fairly clearly myself (since a patch is, by definition, something that requires some degree of reverse-engineering, and JAST would rather you didn’t do that especially with their own titles)
Hmmm, I can kind of understand what Unicorn is getting at in his post. The post by jdcakes is along the lines of “Sorry, I’ll leave here and not return so as to not further inconvenience you” in the tone it has. It is just that Unicorn didn’t quote the part that sounds like jdcakes won’t be returning to this forum again.
Ooops - my bad!
That didn’t quite come out how I originally wanted it to be…
If they were worried about Hot Coffee, there are two games they need to pull. Not naming names.
If a company allows discussion and/or links to unauthorized content on their own forums, it opens them up to being liable for anything that unauthorized content may do to the content of the product or the users PC. Because allowing it means accepting and permitting it, thus making them responsible. As far as I can see, the only thing Shingo said was “don’t discuss it here and don’t post links here”, which is perfectly fair for any company to do in trying to protect itself from any potential liabilities.
Promoting censorship to fight censorship, interesting.
The point is, if the company that censored the images provides the means (or allows the means to be provided) on their own forum to bypass the censoring, there is not much point in censorng it to begin with. They could still be held liable just as if it were never censored.
I think it’s great that you brought back the original content, I’m sure many people will use your work. But let me ask you honestly, did you pay for the game? The question is really rhetorical, so don’t bother answering. And don’t bother responding to my rhetoric, I really don’t care.
Let’s go at this from a different angle then.
Let’s say you park an expensive car that you just bought in a relatively nice area. It’s a small area, with few people, so why not leave your keys in the car with the doors unlocked and go away for a day or two. The number of people around are slim after all, so the chances of it being stolen are almost nil, right? But why even bother taking the risk?
Of course you could say that there is another factor at play here, what with customer satisfaction being involved, but the final case is, why take a chance if there’s no real harm done in protecting yourself?
Sadly, a company HAS to protect themselves on forums now days, more so when customers alter, change, or reverse their product’s content. If they allowed the discussion, or the links to such changes to be accessible on their company forums, that means they accept and back up those unauthorized changes. This means they also have to trouble shoot any problems customers may come up with, knowing that the patch may or may not be in place. Why should they have too? Well, if they allow it on their forums, it’s now their responsibility. Some customers DO have this kind of mentality, and it’s not a stretch to say so either. Let’s say that user created content then damages their relations with the developer, because that’s not what they agreed on when the license was done. Normally a company can simply say “We don’t support it, so we can’t do anything but ask them to stop.”, but if they allow the discussion and links on their forums, they’re then responsible for it. A smart company covers all it’s bases, this is business after all.
A number of Western companies encourage fan modifications of their products. Notably none of them are in the eroge business. There’s a risk/reward ratio involved with supporting fan mods. In this particular industry, the risks evidently far outweigh the rewards. Not to say there’s anything wrong with fan mods. But supporting them (either openly or tacitly by not discouraging them) just isn’t a good idea for eroge localization companies. Not when sex is in the equation. And also not when the intellectual property isn’t originally your’s. It’s not a question of morality. It’s a question of liability.
There’s nothing in this quote that says fan mods are wrong. All it says is that they’re not to be posted or specifically referenced on this board. Compare that to their stance on piracy:
Note that they actively police piracy on other sites and constantly bring it up in promotional materials. They do no such thing with fan mods.
Actually my analogy wasn’t placed towards user modifications. Just the whole censorship in general and why they did it. My fault for not making that clear however. It’s about risk, why take risks when you don’t have too. (Welcome to the forums as a poster btw.)
This boils down to the risk factor again. If you can protect yourself by covering all bases, and just preventing the discussion or links on a company owned forum, is simply a business move to protect themselves. No sense in taking risks if they can be avoided. Dark_Shiki summed it up pretty well, as your argument is mostly based on them preventing and stopping unauthorized modifications, which they aren’t doing, they’re just preventing the discussion of or open accessibility to, such content on their company forum to avoid potential risk. People know how the internet works, of course they do, so they know if those users who wish to use said content seek it out, they’ll find it without them having to be open to any liabilities on their own forums. I honestly fail to see how supporting reversed content they themselves took steps(and money) to alter on their forums, is in line with keeping good relationships with their customers. True, the censorship alienates a lot of that customer base because some just absolutely wont accept censorship no matter what the reason, but not enough that they shouldn’t cover their own ass.
At the very least, we should be allowed to discuss such software. It’s been allowed in the past. Keeping the line of communication open is key to not alienating your fanbase.
I think you mean TSF and CRC, Right?
YMK, Aya is NOT 10, like a erlier post of yours said. the game doesn’t imply this at all. It implies otherwise because she doesn’t grow at all during the epilouge of one of the characters. Her appearance is a joke.
Wrong on both counts, although CRC includes a loli, any remaining reference to that in the script was scrubbed.
Just because they’re the only player in the market doesn’t mean their fans can’t have standards. If anything, you could say JAST has more or less a monopoly in the niche H-visual novel market. Like it or not, every market is consumer driven, especially the really niche ones that rely soley on fan support–Nobody, not even the fans, have to buy a game purely out of charity or appreciation for the company’s actions. If there’s no real competition, how are fans going to get what they want if everyone simply accepts every mistake they make out of appreciation for the risks they’ve taken to be in the market? If anything, the fact that they’re the only player willing to risk catering to such a tiny market should give them every incentive to believe that these sort of things are unacceptable. I could be spending my time/money on things other than bishoujo games to be as equally entertained–I don’t “have” to appreciate anything they do unless they offer me a product in a manner that I expect it to be, especially if I have to pay money for it.
They may give refunds and apologize out of the bottom of their hearts, but hey, the damage was already done out of their own actions (They weren’t “forced” to this–They had a major overreaction), they haven’t done anything to undo the actual damage in the product, they threaten to ban anyone who posts/discusses fan-created patches to undo the damage, and they haven’t given us any assurance that such acts of censorship won’t happen again with their future titles–With that in mind, you expect me, a fan whose time/money is on the line, to be content with the mere precense of refunds/apologies and the fact that they’re the only company willing to take risks releasing games in this market? Get real.
Also, you don’t need brackets in your posts.
Although I don’t like censorship, I care more about actually playing these games than some panties or what have you being drawn on an underage character. I do hope JAST doesn’t make the same mistake of not letting people know they’re making changes to the game, since a large part of the problem seems to be people paying for a product that was altered when it was claimed to be uncut, but I just can’t get very angry about this. I completely understand others wanting the most for their money and being selective about what they buy (and if that includes no censorship, so be it). Personally I’m used to censorship being sort of a necessary evil, otherwise some of these games might not see an English release.
If anyone actually listens or accepts anything CEDAW or EN says as if they have no other choice (like what’s been going on lately), then they’re already getting their way. The final decision of whether something is banned/censored isn’t in the hands of some obscure activist group, it’s in the hands of the companies that are even bothering to listen to them.
I agree with you. It is great we have Jast USA releasing games in english instead of none at all. Thanks to them I am playing some real good hidden gems from Japan