sigh just look at these lousy pirates!
(URL deleted)
(note from Kumiko admin)
Kumiko has notified our webmaster. Please notify our webmaster of any pirates you find, but do not post them here. Also, notify IDSA. Thank you.
[This message has been edited by Kumiko Kamiyama (edited 11-20-2001).]
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
*sigh* just look at these lousy pirates!(URL deleted)
(note from Kumiko admin)
Kumiko has notified our webmaster. Please notify our webmaster of any pirates you find, but do not post them here. Also, notify IDSA. Thank you. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
[This message has been edited by Kumiko Kamiyama (edited 11-20-2001).]
Oops [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img]... gomen nasai for posting the url, Kumiko! Posted some angry messages on that board... hope they'll think twice about what they're doing now (but most likely, they will not [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/frown.gif[/img])
[This message has been edited by Spectator Beholder (edited 11-20-2001).]
This is what one of the pirates answered at one of my “angry messages”:
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Buy or pirate games?
THIS is A REPLY TO S.BEHOLDER AND THE FOLLOWING DISCUSSIONS
Well, you are definitely pissed, I can see that. I must agree with the piracy thing, a CD check can be cracked, more or less easily. i am sure many of the people pirating the games are well aware of the consequences. The scenario you propose is ideal, but copying and pirating software is a long discussion. It is amost a legal problem, the current laws are not effective, they stop piracy, yes, but only to a certain degree. Computer games are not cars, you either buy a car or don’t buy it. Stealing is possible, but that is very risky. However software stealing is much easier. I think most of the companies realized that they cannot eliminate piracy and live with it. Illegal? Yes, but see, you basically cannot even borrow a game, or a VHS tape to someone, if you strictly follow the law. This already is ridiculous, the e-law is still on very shaky grounds. Amiga died because of piracy, everyone blames the pirates, but if it was so easy to crack games, isn’t it true, that they just did not calculate with this risk? If you leave your apartment door open, do you really expect everyone not to walk in? You would probably laugh at someone doing that, right? Until you fully eliminate crime you must cope with it.
The game prices, well, the evil-doers would have to be the distributors here (right?). Many developers complain about them. See you are right - the games are maybe 10 years old, in these days how much would you pay for them? Certainly not the full price. I would pay $5 AT MOST for any of the older h-games (ok, bishoujo games). I have a nice mail offer from 10 years or so ago, there is an offer which sells a CD with 50 low-res and 50 hi-res airplane pictures in .bmp format for $25!!! Honestly, how much would YOU pay for Fatal Relations which is a collection of images with a story? I would pay $30 (the price they sell it for in our local shop) for FF8, because I know the game is worth it, long play, nice graphics, big story. I really think anime games are overpriced. And on the contrary, I do not think it is bad that they are no 3D graphics top-line products, i really think it suits the general style for these games to be the way they are, put please don’t charge so much for them then! I bought several games, but only when I thought they were really worth it. As much as I love bishoujo games, I just don’t know… I have asked some of my friends if they would pay the full prices for those games. No-one would, not even the $15 they sell it for.
Isn’t the problem in the Japanese companies, that they simply ignore the western market? The problem is, I do not want to pay for overpriced games just for the noble idea of supporting a market creation. There are very few people that want this pioneer role. The market should be created according to the demand. If we have to prove something to the companies in order to get it, then **** them! This is not the way it works, THEY should be eyeing new markets, if they don’t, they will be stuck in Japan and never expand (maybe they don’t care about expanding).
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Isn't the problem in the Japanese companies, that they simply ignore the western market? The problem is, I do not want to pay for overpriced games just for the noble idea of supporting a market creation. There are very few people that want this pioneer role. The market should be created according to the demand. If we have to prove something to the companies in order to get it, then **** them! This is not the way it works, THEY should be eyeing new markets, if they don't, they will be stuck in Japan and never expand (maybe they don't care about expanding).
While I can understand your point of view, I think you miss the point about why they don't. To do bussiness is to take risks. But they are calculated risks, studied by statisticians to determin if the odds of success our on their side. The risks for bring a unkown forign product to the US are high, and they become even higher when you bring into account the adult nature of the product we are talking about. The piracy makes it even worse. In many ways it's a vicious cycle, the japanese companies don't bring their products to the US, so they are pirated, which makes it even less likly that the product is exported, and so on. When people try to break the cycle, the people who once would have bought the product, are so used to pirated copies, that they end up pirating copies because they are no long used to paying for this product, even when it has been translated into english. So it is everyones fault except Peach Pricesses. It is the piraters, it is the way people do business, it is everything.
Why people even bother to get pirated copies I don't know. You never get the full experience, because they never have the full game, they just have the graphics and sometimes the midi music. This is done for bandwith reasons. You just don't get the full experince. But then again, I have allways had money to spend on things, I have not been in the case where I can't, or want to spend it on other things, like alchol or something else. The key to pushing back the enemy(the pirates) is to know them, and to know the products.
As Sun Zsu said,
"Know your enemy,
know ones self,
and you will every battle"
This si the reply from the guy… for soem reason, he seems to be kind of shy or something about posting his options on the Peach Princess Forum,ans since I’m not allowd to post the URL to the board as I did before, I’ll simply copy his post and put it here…
---------
Okie, let’s do it then. First let me note, that I also take into accout the posting
by Kumiko from the URL above.
AD BORROWING:
I am not trying to win on every front. If you are right, you are right.
AD GAME TASTE:
Waaah, of course there are different tastes! Of course for someone a simple flower is more beautiful than an orchid. I was referring to the objective value,that a common observer would pay for these games, a 3D epic with FMVs (FF is, like it or not, of more objective value than a simple graphic novel(FatalRel). Therefore I DO think that these games are overpriced. I think of some souveniers, crappy objects with some symbolic of a city or country, cost killer amounts of money, just because they are from there. Personally I see no difference in wooden chopsticks bought from IKEA (the furniture store) or from a Chinese souvenier shop. It is just the wood, OBJECTIVELY. Surely,many people prefer the Chinese ones and are willing to pay more. Not me. So the thing you are talking about is true, people that like these games are willing to pay “more”. Once again, not me. But that does not mean I do not like the games, I (speaking for myself!) am just not willing to pay more, just as I would rather buy the IKEA chopsticks. People are different, I respect that, I just wanted to say, that by “overpriced” I mean overpriced for me, even with all your explanations WHY it has to be so much, and that it is actually less than in Japan, it is still too much for me, because I look at the objective value.
AD EVIL-DOERS DISTRIBUTORS:
I take this phrase back.
AD $X - $X/2:
If I see a game priced at half the price that I bought it for 5 years ago, I have no regrets. I am however really angry when someone still sells it for the FULL price, even though it is 5 years old.
AD ECONOMICS
I appreciate the explanation of the pricing system, I really do not have any comments to that and I suppose you are telling the truth. But with no offence, I cannot feel enlightened all of the sudden and pull out the money from my pockets with a big smile just because I now know how hard it is to sell these games. Many people ARE fans, but you cannot really expect them to do that for you. All you can do is, I guess, explain to them (this messageboard is also one form of your “advertisement” I would say) that you need their support, but do not be angry at them if they don’t support you, because the products you offer are too expensive for them. I am still waiting for my first DVD, because they are expensive. I just cannot buy them, so maybe I let the more liquid folks start the business up and the prices will go down. Bottom line is, you have a big price + I don’t think it’s worth it = I simply won’t buy it. Simple as that. I have bought many things with the intention to support the
manufacturer (believe it or not), like our very tasty local cheese strings, but I cannot do that for every product I like. There are products that I liked, that are gone now, because the people did not buy them, although I thought they were great. Should I be mad at them then? Yes, a pirate-free environment would help, but it is the business you chose, so do not tell me you didn’t know that pirating of your games could happen. In fact, you should know that it could happen pretty easily, because you are in the computer games/programs business. Just like you explained, many companies even calculate with these losses. Software pirates are the cause, sure, but while it is ok to bitch at them that they ruin you, it is also imperative that you calculate with them. Do not think that even your arch-enemies, the pirates do not respect you for the pioneer work that you are doing (although I believe you don’t give a damn about their respect). But really, look at the situation: The business is not going as you would like it to go, you most probably know the main cause (pirates),you probably know there is little chance of stopping them “the hard way”, so what you are doing is at least try to set up a discussion about the neccessity of supporting you, open a new battlefront. Very nice, and I would say, very clever.
mikey.
-----
Hmm, He’s in other words saying that he wouldn’t by a bishoujo game for various reasons, but the still hasn’t explained exactly exactly why or how it gives him the right to buy/trade pirated copies of the games… And he still claims himself to be a “true” fan of bishoujo games …
So you’re here? Good, then I’ll begin with…
AD GAME TASTE:
If you think they are overpriced then why don’t you save $5 or $10 each month or so? In that way, you’d be able to buy at least one of Peach Princess’s games within some months… But I don’t think you’re THAT poor, if you were, you wouldn’t be able to trade/sell/download the games you’re stealing, not would you be able to play them at all. And as has been said before… If you and your so-called “friends” who’re pirating Peach Princess’s (among other games) games actually brought them instead then they’d be much cheaper… the more demand, the cheaper, you know . And about tastes… you claim yourself as a fan of those games, then why don’t you by it… to be a “fan” of something means that you want it, even if you have to sell your scouce to the Devil to be able to afford it… but instead, you pirate EVERY bishoujo game at the market and in that way, you’re killing your scoure (you have in other words a choice here… you can kill the cow or you may not, and since you’d have a safe food scoure if you don’t kill the, it’d be best to NOT kill it, right?) so that means that when Peach Princess is no more, and there’s no more english games you can pirate, what will you do then? throw away every bishoujo game you’ve downloaded and say something like “Bah, it was a crappy interest anyway”, for that’s what may happen… would you be able to hold on your so-called “interest” in bishoujo games if there were no more of these?
AD $X - $X/2:
sigh didn’t you hear what I said? since the market isn’t that big, they don’t have any choice but to let the same price remain to compensate at least a bit of what they’re losing because of pirates such as you… and… Today, Jast USA are selling some of their games (Three sisters Story, Season of the Sakura and VR May Dating club) way more cheaper then what they cost before that and you still think they’re “too overpriced”? $15 aren’t that much (most of the "overpriced DVD’s you’re saying that you’re buying are nowadays three or four times as expensive)… and DOUBT that it’d be that hard on your pocket to pay that much. an also… if it’s just older games you don’t want to buy, why don’t you buy the newer one, then? In the other forum, for example, you wrote “e-mail me ----, if you have gloria desire evebursterror transfer student or any newer games like snowdrop xchange, I’ll trade”… And many of those games are on a WAY higher “level” than Fatal Relations, both in things like story, art quality, choice of paths and more, and you still want to pirate them just because that you think like "“Well, if you’ve seen one of them, you’ve seen them all, and they’re the same crap, everyone of them, so it’d be nothing wrong with little me pirating them!”?
AD ECONOMICS
It doesn’t bother me if you don’t buy it that’s your choice. What bothers me are your destroying the market by pirating them, and “giving” the games to people, something you’ve got no right at all to do. And what’s worse, many pirates doesn’t know that they’re killing their own market as they’re pirating, so when you don’t tell a “pirate friend” or “customer” of yours of the consequences and just “gives” them the game, you make them unaware of that they could have brought it instead and supported the market instead of killing it… therefore, it’s possible that in the future those people would be kind of angry at you, because that you “helped” killing a market they’d wanted to remain by using their ignorance. One of these people, right now, is me… I don’t try to tell you what to do, but I’m not going to thank you because that you kills the market - If Peach Princess and other companies like (like JAST USA) them are gone in the future, then I know who I have to “thank” the destruction of a marked had wanted to remain for. and… We don’t need the respect of their pirates (remember… you can’t make a living of respect; I can respect a beggar i meet, but that won’t make him/her any richer), we want their support. And if they won’t lend any support, but continue to steal the games out there now and the games that will be out in the future, then there won’t be any more of those, as I’ve said countless times. If you were a fan, you’d help the market you’re saying that you want to reaming (or don’t you want any more bishoujo games?) by, for example;
A, don’t pirate the games at all.
B, buy them legally or just don’t buy them if you don’t want them.
C, create fanpages for the games
D, help the companies by create an interest for their games everywhere…
You don’t have to be a “big” fan and do everything but there’s many ways to show your support, but you won’t be supporting anything as long as you’re pirating.
RIGHT or WRONG
Hmm, if you yourself think that pirating is the wrong thing to do, then why are you doing the opposite of it? Money, yes, but if you think it’s too expensive, why buy “overpriced” anime DVD’s then? You certainly could get them pirated if you really tried to, to a much lower price, so why don’t you do it? and when you’re at it, go into a store and steal some candy you like, or why not steal some clothes you’d like to have? No, I don’t think you’d do most of those things, because you know that those things are illegal, and therefore you’d not do it… Pirating is as illegal as those things are, because you’re stealing something that others, both in Japan and America, ave worked very hard at to get out. but selfish as you are, you ignore their hard work and steals of them… not very nice of you, I’d say.
Oh, well, that’s all for this time… do you have something to add. Kumi-chan?
[This message has been edited by Spectator Beholder (edited 11-27-2001).]
Who is this guy? I can’t believe that there are these idiots out there who don’t care about destroying the market. I don’t even have a job at the moment (though I recently did a little work) because I’m still at college, and that means very little money, and I still want to support Peach Princess. Anyone who likes these games should buy them. They’re awsome; not for the graphics like in games such as Final Fantasy and other well recognised games, but for their story and artwork. I have played bishoujo games with such beautiful story-lines, you would never see them in any big game. I must admit that I haven’t bought any bishoujo games from Peach Princess yet (I have no money right now), but I can garantee that within two weeks I will have made an order from Peach Princess, and I will almost certainly buy more after christmas. I could easily get these games pirated on CD, but I won’t simply because I like these games and want to support companies like Peach Princess so that we see more of these beautiful games in the future.
Spectator Beholder: Ya i see what your saying but like one of them said, unlike stealing a car/clothes/misc./etc. It’s alot easier to put a pc game on the web somewhere… What I’d like to know is what is the source of that, someone must be buying the game and sending it everywhere on the web, I can’t figure out for what reason someone whould want to do that, to be cool or something? So people will like you? that’s just strange.
======
I can see what those morons are saying about to much money and stuff but, why the hell are they buying more expensive stuff but complain about bishoujo games being to high in price? I have to admit (some people on this bbs already know) i use to pirate “quite a bit” (not alot). Not until a few months ago i didn’t realize how distructive what i was doing was. So far I’ve preordered LMM (since May… damm im waiting so long) and just sent payment for the LMM art book. I “really” want these companies to last especially PeachPrincess.
I said this before but oh well, I think the main problem is that pirating software is to easy, I mentioned somewhere else that the best way is to have some sort of regitration on the CD/Software and goes to the company, if it’s not valid that you “Can’t” even start the program cause it’s a pirate… Pretty much the same as “Adult Check” and such.
BTW, im not trying to pick a fight im just giving my point of veiw on that.
I don’t think pirates need to be that brilliant. With the advent of affordable CD-RW drives, you just need a fairly fast 16x CD drive and a whole bunch of CD-R to be a pirate. Your typical profile of a pirate isn’t someone who hacks a key or obtains the first batch of software, but your next door neighbor with a very good system. Warez is mainly distributed through channels similar to those that distrbute illegal drugs for a drug lord. I don’t mean it’s the same channels, but it’s distributed in a similar fashion.
Havn’t been around this bbs for a while, but this seems to be an interesting post. Therefore I want to comment on certain aspects of this debate before it gets shut down.
Honestly, I didn’t read every post in this trend. Yet I “think” I got the gist of the arguments on both sides. In my view, its essentially one of those “I can versus I should” debates. I have to conclude that contents in the posts listed by Spectator Beholden are nothing more than sophistries in the guises of fan advocacy. Does anyone actually adhere to the warnings in warez “depots” saying “this is for evaluation only. Please delete it within 24 hours?” To anyone abiding to those disingenuous rules," I have a seashore property for sale in West Texas…
Having said that, I do admit I am one of those unscrupulous people who often don’t buy legit copies. Yes, I rip so many anime DVDs I can start my own rental shop if I choose to. Yes, I have not bought an audio CD in my life (seriously) thanks solely to mp3. Yes, I don’t think I have a piece of legitimate sofeware in my program file. Still, I admit bluntly about my insidious deeds, as opposes to hypocrites who try to rationalize their selfish actions with lofty objectives. Why do I use “archive” copies? Well, why do people rob banks when there is no police around the area?
Despite my apparent rhetorics, I do strongly believe in buying legit copies if you want to support certain companies. I spent about around 100 bucks on PeaPri products so far, and thrice that amount on manga by Viz and other publishers. I guess what I’m trying to say is that piracy is piracy not matter how one tries to justify it. Yet I hope no one, at least for me, is completely a leecher and a freeloader.
Phi
If there is no police, I sure as hell am not going to rob the bank.
----------------------------------------
Episode of Trigun, Vash impostor from out of town robs a peaceful town free of criminal elements.
Vash: See that girl over there?
Marlon: Yes.
Vash: Her mom was going to buy her a new present with the money she was going to withdraw from the bank.
Marlon: Really??
Vash: No, I lied.
Marlon: Idiot! Why do you care about someone else’s money!
Vash: Because the situation is not equal.
quote:
Originally posted by mikey:
It is too bad that you have to shut this topic down, but it is your decision. I see some people understood my points. None of them justify pirating. If you think you know all you need to know about why the games are pirated, what can I do? It seems every discussion ends with "if you are a true fan, buy them".Exactly the fact that Kumiko stated, that the discussion defends pirating is in my opinion wrong, but once again, your call.
There is no justification, stealing little is the same crime type as stealing much. There is much discussion on just HOW or even WHETHER it is possible to apply "real environment" laws to the e-space. The law has developed over centuries in an environment without the "copy" function. People adapt, and while my next statement may be harsh, think about it:
The state is the ultimate force behind the laws. If they are not functional, then it should change them. History has seen legal acts that were completely ineffective, from a global point of view, no-one blamed the people, but the incompetency of the law-makers.
E-law is in its beginnings, what has been done is that existing laws have been applied to cyberspace by the way of analogy. This is only effective to a certain degree, and as you could see in the mp3 cases, it is not really that effective. There still is not even a sufficient legal awareness in the people about these questions.
This is ultimately the problem of the state. You pay your taxes, then they should do something, right? If you have to do it yourself, convince people about the illegality of piracy, then something is wrong already. If I buy a gun to defend my home I already acknowledge that what the state does to protect me is not enough and not the degree it at least should be.
If you think the previous lines were justifying piracy, you're wrong and it is maybe better to shut the discussion down. Because no matter what the explanations or theories, the current legal situation still constitutes piracy as a crime.
Hmm, it seems like you've missed the point Kumi-chan, I and all the others have been trying to make... The whole discussion isn't, in case you haven't noticed, just about piraticy, the discussion is also about if you do want bishoujo games or not? You claim yourself to be a fan of bishoujo games, and that'd mean that you want more bishoujo games, correct? however, as I've been saying, what you and your so-called friends have been doing so far is the total opposite of that - instead of supporting the market and help it grow, you're killing it by pirating it because that you don't want to pay for the games, games that other people have worked very for to make them get out on the english market.
Maybe YOU don't want those games, but people like me and other people here on the Peach Princess's forum, we actually want more bishoujo games. That's why we support Peach Princess, by buying the games they're currently offering, so that Peach Princess and other bishoujo games companies here in West will be able to give us more bishoujo games in the future. You can't be a fan of anything if you're killing what you claim yourself to be a fan of, or don't you know that? There's LOTS of good games there in Japan that I'd like to see on the english market, but because of pirates like you, we may not see more new english bishoujo games in about 1-2 years, and that'll be partly because of pirates such as you, who helped killing the market.
So, a little summary of what I've said so far: If you want more games, buy those that the companies are able to offer right now, If you don't wan to buy the games or don't want to support the market then that's okay BUT it's NOT okay if you pirate the games, because that if you're doing it, you're:
1. stealing someone else's work
2. destroying the market and the possibly of more bishoujo games in the future
3. sabotaging both for those who'd have wanted to buy the games, if the had known more about the consequences and for those who're currently trying to support the market.
So... do as you want, but think about the consequences... if you're just thinking about the present ("I don't want to pay or wait for the game, so I'll simply pirate it right now!"), you may regret it in the future ("What!? No more english bishoujo games? That just can't be true! The market did...uh... just fine when I were pirating their games!"). Of course, in such a future, you COULD get Japanese bishoujo games... but how would you be able to understand the story, then(the games wouldn't be in english, you know)?? Would it be even half as fun if you couldn't understand things in the games, like what they're saying? What everything is about? Why things in the story are like this and that?
So. Start think of the future right now. That's all for today.
quote:It seems that what you say here is not the case. I'm learning Japanese and I have tried to get Japanese bishoujo games before, but a lot of Japanese websites refuse to even sell any of their products to the rest of the world, so if the English market disappeared, you would have problems getting hold of ANY bishoujo games at all, even in Japanese.
[QB]Of course, in such a future, you COULD get Japanese bishoujo games... but how would you be able to understand the story, then(the games wouldn't be in english, you know)??[/QB]
I don’t quite understand where the mentality that the State needs to do more to control the masses first took root. America is an interesting place because it was one of the first places where the experimentation of a free Nation State took place. Throughout history, from scores of Anthropological and Sociological documentation, people were held under legal constraint through various devices, each successful in its own specific culture because there was a underlying public opinion that was disseminated through the masses. The Medieval ages saw the feudal system that enforced a fixed, static heirarchy that was a system enforced by a sovereign, but the sovereigns needed the peasants to survive as much as the peasants needed the sovereign to protect them. Religion was used as a control device to perpetuate the idea of fixed static social classes. In Ireland, a predominantly catholic nation, the prevalent pagan belief in fairies and leprechauns seem jarring until one realizes that this primarily agricultural people use this belief to deal out punishments and rewards. China’s 5000 years of thinking owes much of it to Confucian principles that built its social heirarchy and mores. I don’t think it’s any different here in the States. If the President of the United States declared that you need to show up at the park for a celebratory party, versus your friend invites you to go to play frisbee in the park, which one would you actually go? I’d just pretend I’m sick and stay in bed if the POTUS declared something outrageous like that. People keep people in check, it shouldn’t be the State to keep people in check, because it’s a tried and true practice across cultures and the dimension of time.
Here’s a little something that I thought I’d share with a friend of mine, since I’ve noticed this is very much on the forefront on everyone’s mind: support Anime. This guy has a huge collection, fat HD space, of fansubs, and much of it is stuff that’s already been licensed here in the states. He won’t buy the licensed anime here, and even sometimes make such off color comments when I talk about my Anime DVD collection with another friend: “I can get all the episodes of that Anime on VCD.” I didn’t even ask him for his opinion and he flaunts it like he owns a Benz. We chide him when he talks like that, but his opinion on that subject is so immutable that it’s unbelievable. He would buy the original Japanese legit manga or manga licensed to the American companies, but he won’t buy Anime. He’s not a very emotive fellow either, but I hope our pressure is swaying him to do the right thing, because if we can’t set him straight, I’m not sure who will. Ach, it’s so infuriating sometimes and I don’t know if he realizes it’s inappropriate to adopt such a hypocritical attitude toward licensed anime I want to strangle him sometimes.
quote:
Originally posted by TurricaN:
It seems that what you say here is not the case. I'm learning Japanese and I have tried to get Japanese bishoujo games before, but a lot of Japanese websites refuse to even sell any of their products to the rest of the world, so if the English market disappeared, you would have problems getting hold of ANY bishoujo games at all, even in Japanese.
Hmm, did you try to order the games via Himeya instead of the japnaese companies?? Himeya offers, as far as I know, a way to order the japanese bishoujo games wherever in the world you're living... but the prices are, of course, very high... the games are sold for the same price as in Japan, which means that they are VERY expensive, at least if you compare their prices to the prices PeaPri offers. And as I said, they're in japanese... which wouldn't be much of a problem for people who can read Japanese or are learning how to read it like yourself, but for those who can't read Japanese, that'd be quite a problem...
quote:
Originally posted by Kumiko Kamiyama:
Also assuming that you have a system that will run the Japanese programs.Himeya's prices for imported Japanese games are actually pretty cheap, all things considered. Things could be much worse. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]
Sure, things could be worse. But still...
*sigh* that's one thing I may need in the future; A system that would allow me to run Japanese games, which's certainly something I don't have yet...
sigh got myself enaged in another hot debatte with a pirate, it seems… but unlike the other one who’ve debatted here before, this guy aren’t trying to deny that he pirates PeaPri’s games… nor does he have any compassion when it comes to understanding the situation of the market or those who’re working on getting those games out:
quote:
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Ahem, if you’re telling me that you don’t like those games, then why even pirate?
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I never said I don’t like them. In fact, I’ve explicitly stated that I do like them, at least some of them. There’s a very big difference between liking something and being willing to pay half a C-note for it, though.
quote:
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did i say that those games cost around 70-100 dollars in Japan?[/i]
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If the Japanese pay the equivalent of $70-$100 for the caliber of bishoujo games we see around here, that’s their problem. Personally, I can’t help but think those are prices to be paid by rich men and idiots, or perhaps simply rich idiots.
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--------------------------------------------------------------------------------and yet, the only thanks they recreive is the pirating from people such as you. The market isn’t weak becuse that it’s weak, it’s becuse of the lack of support… support that you are taking away from them.
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This is the fundamental source of our disagreement. What I’m asserting is that they never had my support: I have never been willing to pay top dollar for hentai games, and before I had a high-speed connection and large hard drive, I simply did without. And if the option of piracy did not exist, that would not mean that I’d be forced to buy their games; it would mean that I would still be doing without. Basically, Peach Princess cannot possibly lose my spending dollars since they didn’t have them in the first place.
If you think we should all send them supportive emails, I’ll enthusiastically back you. If you’re proposing that we all mail them $50 for games that, with very few exceptions, could never be said to be worth even half that … well, don’t let the screen door hit your ass on the way out.
Metaphorically speaking, I mean.
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Any market could exist without pirates. It isn’t the pirates that makes the market grow, it is their supporters. Pirates may in some limited ways spread the word of the genre, yes… but how many parasites do you think are created in the process?
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Of course any market could exist without pirates, in theory. Of course, in theory, crime levels could be zero percent, and Communism is a great idea. But in practice, companies like Peach Princess end up creating an environment that actively encourages piracy: selling a product at prohibitive prices that is absurdly easy to distribute freely. That’s like Paramount demanding that you pay your ridiculous $13.50 to get in the movie theatre while simultanously leaving the doors wide open.
I freely admit that I’m a parasite on the h-game industry. But I’m a parasite by necessity. If it’s a choice between sneaking into the theatre or never seeing any movies at all, you’d better save me a seat.
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As I said, they haven’t raised their prices, not anytime, they’ve LOWERED them. And they DO add some bonuses to those who are buying their games when they’re out… not much, maybe, but exactly what do you except from a newborn company?
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Good for them. If $40 is the non-inflated price for the translation of a previously-existing game that’s only available by mail order, the translators either make out like bandits or they have some insoluble problems with their system. God help them if they actually tried to do something creative.
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Hmm, playing Tokimeki Check-in you say? and it’s a pirated verion, I assume? How can you “like” a company you don’t even support, but are killing, if I may ask?
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You’re right. Let me rephrase: I like most of those products of theirs that I’ve tried. Not enough to give them fat sacks of cash, unfortunately.
But for the very last time, I am not killing the company. You understand the difference between passive capitalization and active destruction, yes?
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And, I may also add… As a consumer, you don’t have the right to choose to “copy or not copy” a games based on your own personal preference, you just have the right to choose to “buy or don’t buy”.
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(ahem) FUCK that. It’s not piracy that’s killing ‘PeaPri’, it’s that outmoded brand of thought. While bodies like the RIAA are lecturing the public about ‘the duties of consumers’, they’re busily drowning in their own blood because of their total inability to get with the times. The cute little rules that apply to most commercial goods are downright farcical when it comes to computer programs, and the sooner companies realize this the better off they’ll be.
In brief: rather than berating me in their death throes for not cooperating, they should instead be changing so that I will cooperate. Otherwise, they’ll soon have disappeared, and their moral high ground with them.
I will bet you dollars to donuts that Peach Princess games are not the only ones he pirates, but he will likely give you similar justification for the domestic or translated console games he doesn’t pay for but pirates instead. People like these shell out reasons that they use to justify their piracy, and they all sound obscenely logical to them. I’ve come across more than my share of Bishoujo game reviews that have ‘buy value’ as their review critera, and they’ve invariably rated it 5 or lower, while at the same time unabashedly admitting that they reviewed this product by playing a ripped, or pirated version of the game. Game companies are on a moral high ground? Don’t make me laugh. It’s the pirates that have wilfully ignored their own moral principles, compromising it in the name of dollars and want of H-scenes, instead of appreciating story and graphic design.
Once again, pirates flaunt their ignorance and declare that ‘Software copying is legal, software sales is an outmoded way of thinking’. As I last recall, if you wanted to buy a book, you went to a store to buy it, because you pay for the author’s effort, the publisher’s name recognition because the author couldn’t well sell the book, market it, distribute the book by himself, the bindery, the editors and proofreaders. Luckily books aren’t in electronic format, and pirates are lazy bastards. Yet, when books are in e-book formats, enough hackers have gotten to it to give publishers enough disincentive to publish books in electronic form.
[This message has been edited by bokmeow (edited 12-16-2001).]
This guy is pretty stupid. How can $35 - $50 be too much for these games?! I can remember when the SNES was released and games cost up to ¬£60 ($90) on release, some being even more than that, and people happily bought them! I’m pretty sure that the average PC games costs around the same or more than what bishoujo games do, at least over here in the UK they do. We pay around ¬£35 - ¬£40 ($50 - $60) for newly released PC games, Peach Princesses games are cheap in comparison with that. I don’t even know how that they dare use the price of bishoujo games as an excuse.