Small something

quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
It's the latter option. After all, she's mute, not deaf.

It's much the same, through. If you can't speak, you've got to communicate in SOME way(and deaf people are mute in a way... most deaf have a voice, but they can't really speak with it),and unless she can read and writte, I'd asumme that she uses some kind of Sign Language to communicate with others (or nods/shakes, but this isn't a very good way to communicate, since it makes it harder to make people know what you want to say).

Besides, I think the newer version of Slave Bazaar is just an expansion, and if so I doubt that we'd be able to play it without the original game... I may be wrong, through.

[This message has been edited by Spectator Beholder (edited 07-14-2002).]

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Besides, I think the newer version of Slave Bazaar is just an expansion, and if so I doubt that we'd be able to play it without the original game... I may be wrong, through.

Slave Bazaar R is actually a bit similar to EVE: The Fatal Attraction. EVE: TFA integrates ADAM into its plot, then tacks on the rest of the story. Slave Bazaar R takes the existing SB scenarios (storylines) and then adds one more. The extra scenario has you purchasing all three girls, not just one. It actually adds a layer of depth to the characters through their interactions that you won't be able to see if you were only to buy just one of them (although most of Cecilia and Bianca's interactions seemed to be mostly for comic relief).

Hmm. Well, Peach Princess hasa the rights to Slave Bazaar, but I don’t know if they’ve got any plans for Renaissance… I think I’d wish to see both of those two, Slave Bazaar and Renaissance, released as one here in the west, but considering how things are now, and the fact that it might be hard to convince Ruf and the other third company to do so, I think such a thing would be quite unlikely to happen. but that would sure be something, through, and Peach Princess would in that case not have to waste time on releasing Renaissance in the future .

quote:
Originally posted by Nobody:
Okay, saying Myia is near mute is a bit of a mistatement. It would be more accurate to say she is a pseudomute. She has a scar on her neck, from having her throat cut, so Cassius thinks she cannot speak, but it more of a case of she choices not to. She starts by communicating by making sounds, whimpering, gasping, whatnot. It isn't very clear, but it gets her emotions across. Later, she starts talking. Anyway, communicating is not much of a problem. Cassius is enchanted by Myia. Of course, whether that enchantment takes the form of not being able to keep his hand off of her (i.e. raping her) or trying to coddle her is up to the player.

Hmm, OK... Well, is he isn't complettely mute, then I suppose that you can communicate well enough with only a few words [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]. Hmm... When Peach Prinmcess releases Slave Bazaar, I think that Miya might be the first one that I buy and whose paths I'll play...

quote:
Okay, some facts about Myia. Myia is from Ramsar, near the Elburz Mountains. That is modern Iran, by the coast of the Caspian Sea. So, she is either Kurdish or Persian ethnicly. Anyway, she is a Muslim, and her demeanor is typical of a Muslim woman. Interestingly, it is near Alamut. This was the seat of a certain sect of Muslims. I cannot think of the sect's name, but I know an English word that derives from it--assassin. I'll let you draw your own conclusions.

I've read about that sect in historical books and historical ficion books (like the two books named "I, Marco Polo"). Apparenlt the followers of that sect were told that if they died, they'd be instanlty taken to the Paradise or soemthing like that. And at night, the young students of that sect were drugged to sleep and taken to secret rooms filed with concubines as their "reward" for their hard work [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img]. Well, if you hint at that Miya might have been involved with them, then that's soemthing I'll have to find out when the game gets here [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/biggrin.gif[/img].

quote:
Anyway, Renaissance is a full game, not an expansion. Everything in Dorei Ichiba is in Renaissance, but there are extra features. For one, there is the extra Scenario where you can purchase all of the slaves. Also, while in the original, only Bianca, Cecilia, Myia, Flora, Catharina and Seiren have voices, I believe, in Renaissance everyone but Cassius has a voice. Personally, I would rather [b]Peach Princess just did Renaissance, since it would be cheaper. If they do the original Slave Bazaar, I hope the do Renaissance as well. I would buy both. I mean, I got both versions of Critical Point. Still, in the end, I guess it all depends on the demands that the third party company that made it are. [/b]

If so, then I'd like to see Renaissance here as well, but it's fine with me if the want to release Slave Bazaar first, but I predict one or more problems here... Unless Slave Bazaar gets really popular, many english customers probably won't buy it just because that it contains an extra scenario and some other things... if it was just an expansion, then they might, but buying the whole game again with just some (in their eyes) small changes, then they might not care about Slave Bazaar: Renaissnace. And besides, if Peach Princess first released Slave Bazaar and Slave Bazaar: Renaissance, then no one would buy Slave Bazaar after Renaissance was released since it's the same game and has more scenarios (and many would ask themsleves what the point of releasing Slave Bazaar was in the first place... Ruf has obisviously stopped selling Slave Bazaar for that reason; there is no point in selling slave Bazaar any longer since Renaissance is Slave Bazaar and more). So to summary the whole thing: Peach Princess would ge better off with just releasing Reaissance. Or they could release Slave Bazaar and then sell Reanissance as an expansion that only contains the extra features that Renaissance has.

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Or they could release Slave Bazaar and then sell Reanissance as an expansion that only contains the extra features that Renaissance has.

An expansion [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/confused.gif[/img]? You mean, something along the lines of Baldur's Gate: Tales of the Sword Coast? That'll probably break Peach Princess' bank since it practically involves producing a new game. True, all one has to do is to snip out the extra scenario contained in Renaissance and put it on a new disc, but still, the effort and money involved is still substantial. (Remember, PeaPri's business can't really be called lucrative right now.)

I don’t really know, since I’ve not played Tales of the Sword coast yet (but I will, someday). Besides, it was just a suggestion, you know . But that, or release Renaissance directly instead of just Slave Bazaar seems like a better choice to me than release both now when I’ve heard some of the “new” facts… Even the Japanese companies might understand the reasons of why the’d want to do it that way. The only problem in this that I can see, is that unfortunately, Renaissance is one of Will’s newest games, so even Renaissance just is a “improved” version of Slave Bazaar and even if we have good reasons for suggesting to release just Renaissance instead of Slave Bazaar and maybe at a latter point, Renaissance, they might refuse…

Edit: And, yes, I know that PP’s business can’t really be called lucrative right now, but also consider that in the long run, they might have more to lose on releasing both Slave Bazaar and Renaissance, instead of just releasing Renaissance. Think about what I said; people might not be interested in Renaissance just beacuse that it has some more features, even if they throught that Slave Bazaar was good. Even those who buys Slave Bazaar might fell that it’d be a waste to release a gmae that is almost the same as Slave Bazaar - if the company who made Diablo had released Lord of Destruction as a part of the original game instead of releasing it as an expansion, then I don’t think it’d have sold as well as they did (althrough I don’t really know if it sold well or not), since many fans would feel kinda cheated at that. In the gaming world nowadays, if a company wants to “add” soemthing to a game - add new scenarios, new mosters, etc, then they release an expansion, they don’t re-release the game with the extra features included. so I think it’d be best if Peach Princess either released Slave Bazaar - Renaissance or released Renaissance as an expansion, not as a “re-released Slave-Bazaar with extra features”.

[This message has been edited by Spectator Beholder (edited 07-16-2002).]

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Edit: And, yes, I know that PP's business can't really be called lucrative right now, but also consider that in the long run, they might have more to lose on releasing both Slave Bazaar and Renaissance, instead of just releasing Renaissance. Think about what I said; people might not be interested in Renaissance just beacuse that it has some more features, even if they throught that Slave Bazaar was good. Even those who buys Slave Bazaar might fell that it'd be a waste to release a gmae that is almost the same as Slave Bazaar - if the company who made Diablo had released Lord of Destruction as a part of the original game instead of releasing it as an expansion, then I don't think it'd have sold as well as they did (althrough I don't really know if it sold well or not), since many fans would feel kinda cheated at that. In the gaming world nowadays, if a company wants to "add" soemthing to a game - add new scenarios, new mosters, etc, then they release an expansion, they don't re-release the game with the extra features included. so I think it'd be best if Peach Princess either released Slave Bazaar - Renaissance or released Renaissance as an expansion, not as a "re-released Slave-Bazaar with extra features".

Though the idea is good (release Renaissance instead of Slave Bazaar), comparing to Diablo II and LoD is like comparing apples and oranges. You need Diablo II to install LoD, but don't need Slave Bazaar to install Renaissance. BTW, if I know beforehand that PeaPri will be releasing Renaissance in the future, I will skip Slave Bazaar or buy the import (regardless of what that means economically to PeaPri).

It makes me wonder, though (probably Lamuness could answer this):

1) When remaking Dorei Ichiba into Renaissance, I guess it was safe to assume that they knew they would have to "translate" the game. Why didn't they had the necessary pointers and/or comments ready when the translation was ready? (That way they don't have to go over the code ) Obviously this is a hypotethical utopic situation, but still... (Which makes me also ask, the games on the make, why don't work on the way on modification/comments/coding for the English/other language release at the same time?)

2) Is DVD-ROM a double edge sword? Though it is not a new technology, to some people it is not a justifiable expense for a computer (OK, OK, the price difference between a CD-ROM and DVD-ROM is blurring, but some people still cut this when it is time to get/upgrade their PCs). As K mentioned some time ago, most people looking for "adult" games dismiss adult bishoujo for the fact that it is not on DVD, yet some of us appreciate the fact that this same games does not require to break the bank upgrading to new machines to play them. (This question arises as Renaissance is a DVD-ROM release)

quote:
Though the idea is good (release Renaissance instead of Slave Bazaar), comparing to Diablo II and LoD is like comparing apples and oranges. You need Diablo II to install LoD, but don't need Slave Bazaar to install Renaissance.

I know that it was a bad comparison, but I was talking about _cuting out_ the extra features in Renaissance and make thme into an expansion that would require Slave Bazaar.

quote:
BTW, if I know beforehand that PeaPri will be releasing Renaissance in the future, I will skip Slave Bazaar or buy the import (regardless of what that means economically to PeaPri).

It was because of that kind of thinking that I suggested the above - that Renaissance is either made into an expansion that adds the extra features in Renaissance to Slave Bazaar - or that they releases Renaissance directly.

They do have a third opinion, through - never release Renaissance in any form, but that could upset some of the fans of Peach Princess, as well as other people... slave Bazaar have been amde into an anime, which points at that it is possibile that it'll reach here someday and if so, thne I dare to bet that Slave Bazaar will have quite some fans here who might become customer sof Peach Princess when they hears about that Peach Princess will release slave Bazaar - but if Peach Princess won't release Renaissance, it probably wouldn't make them happy...

[This message has been edited by Spectator Beholder (edited 07-17-2002).]

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder: It was because of that kind of thinking that I suggested the above - that Renaissance is either made into an expansion that adds the extra features in Renaissance to Slave Bazaar - or that they releases Renaissance directly.

That will be tough. I mean, how much you can "remove" to make it an expansion disk! As was written before, it adds an extra scenario, where you can get all three girls together. Even if you can make it work that way, you will screw up when it comes to economics: the only people who are going to buy the "expansion" are the ones who already have the game. Also, how much you will charge (selling price) for this expansion? (remember, cost of manufacturing, etc.) (I feel like a real sucker when it comes to Blizzard's expansions. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/mad.gif[/img] )

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
They do have a third opinion, through - never release Renaissance in any form, but that could upset some of the fans of Peach Princess, as well as other people... slave Bazaar have been amde into an anime, which points at that it is possibile that it'll reach here someday and if so, thne I dare to bet that Slave Bazaar will have quite some fans here who might become customer sof Peach Princess when they hears about that Peach Princess will release slave Bazaar - but if Peach Princess won't release Renaissance, it probably wouldn't make them happy...

I don't think it is so easy. I mean, since the anime is so new, I doubt it is for licensing yet. Also, it will depend of how it is marketed; unlike Softcel which did mention about Doukyuusei being a game, Nutech has made no such "big" notes about their DVD releases.

As for not releasing the game at all, I could live with it. If the game/anime does gather enough attention from me, there is always Himeya. BTW, what "other" people? ^_^ If PeaPri decides to ditch Slave Bazaar, only current posters/lurkers will know about it. Your usual newcomer, most of the time, don't bother to read old threads (has happened before in NG, and we are dommed to repeat that)

[This message has been edited by fxho (edited 07-17-2002).]

quote:
Originally posted by fxho:
That will be tough. I mean, how much you can "remove" to make it an expansion disk! As was written before, it adds an extra scenario, where you can get all three girls together.

It adds a litte more than that, I think... It also adds more voices to some of the characters (Even Cassius, I think), and some other stuff I've forgotten about, but I think there is enough stuff to make an expansion, even if it becomes a very "small" expansion.

quote:
Even if you can make it work that way, you will screw up when it comes to economics: the only people who are going to buy the "expansion" are the ones who already have the game.

And just how many people won't buy either Slave Bazaar or Renaisaance (if Peaqch Princess decides to release both)!? People either won't buy either Slave Bazaar or Renaisannce for these reasons:

1. People won't buy Slave Bazaar because that they feel that it would be a waste since Peach Princess will release Renaissance anyway; it's exactly the same game and adds soem new stuff to the old scenario and is therefore also even better than Slave Bazaar.
2. People won't buy Renaissance because that they alreday brought Slave Bazaar and would think of it as a waste to buy Renaissance, since Renaissance is almost the same game as Slave Bazaar, then what'd be the point of buying it, except for some new stuuff in it? Even if Slave Bazaar becomes quite popular among Peach Princess customers, I doubt that any except the most hard-core fans of Reanissance will buy Renaissance just for "the same game with some new stuff". That's why I think that an expansion would be better if they want to release Renaisssance after Salve Bazaar... Just think, when they decided to add a trailer at the end of "the Lord of the Rings" movie, most of the fans (and even non-fans) were disappointed since they alreday had seen the movie - and now they would have to pay to see the same movie again just to see "some extra stuff" int he form of a 3-minute trailer? People might get the same feeling about Renaissance if Peach Princess decides to release both Renaissance and Slave Bazaar.

quote:
Also, how much you will charge (selling price) for this expansion? (remember, cost of manufacturing, etc.) (I feel like a real sucker when it comes to Blizzard's expansions.)

Hmm, I don't really know what i'd like the price to be but since Peach Princess doens't need all of Renaissance to make thins expansion from will, they could perhaps get it cheaper (althrough I don't except Will to be that merciful [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/wink.gif[/img]), and if that was the case, then they could sell it a little cheaper than Slave Bazaar. Otherwise, I don't really know.

quote:
I don't think it is so easy. I mean, since the anime is so new, I doubt it is for licensing yet. Also, it will depend of how it is marketed; unlike Softcel which did mention about Doukyuusei being a game, Nutech has made no such "big" notes about their DVD releases.

That might be true, but still... Well, if Nutech were told that there was a game and that it's being released in english, then they might make even a small comment about it, who knows?

quote:
As for not releasing the game at all, I could live with it. If the game/anime does gather enough attention from me, there is always Himeya

Well, I myself could live without Renaissance, but it would still be a fun game to see...

quote:
BTW, what "other" people? ^_^ If PeaPri decides to ditch Slave Bazaar, only current posters/lurkers will know about it. Your usual newcomer, most of the time, don't bother to read old threads (has happened before in NG, and we are dommed to repeat that)

Heh, who knows hoe many people who urs out ther ein the darkness? There are those who often reads thids board, but never posts, or posts very seldom. So even if you say "just posters/lurkers", there would eventually be soem rumors about the whole thing anyway... and whoile msot newcomers doesn't bother to read allt hat much of the old trhreads, i'm sure that they do read one thread here and there. Besides, you can do a serach her eon these boards, so finding info about certain subject isn't too hard.

*sigh* Well, we might not agree on what is being discussed here, but I think we can agree on that Peach Princess has a few opinions on what to do in this... and every choice has it's risk too (as you no doubt know):

1, They could release slave Bazaar and later Renaissance, but in doing so, they risk to sell much less of either Slave Bazaar or Renaissance (for reasons, see above), and it might also disappoint some of the people who alreday brough Slave Bazaar.

2. They could release jsut Renaissance, but Will might not agree on doing it, even if Peach Princess tells them that they'd have good reasons to do so.

3. They could release just Slave Bazaar and never release Renaissance, but this might disappoint some of the fans. And what if there as a large demand for it in the future?

4. They could release Slave Bazaar and make Renaissance into an expansion, as suggested above, but it might be costly, and it is uncertain if Will would agree to do so.

5. They could drop both Slave Bazaar and Renaissance, but this wouldn't be all that good - people here is longing for seeing a game made by Ruf in english... Besides, the work on Slave Bazaar has alreday begun and the rights are brought. To drop it now would be a total waste of money.

Do we agree? For now, choice 3 sounds most likely to what Peach Princess will do...

You all probably know already but Meiking has been givin a Sept 9 release date. The info is at the rightstuf site:

http://www.rightstuf.com/news/news.shtml

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Hmm, I don't really know what i'd like the price to be but since Peach Princess doens't need all of Renaissance to make thins expansion from will, they could perhaps get it cheaper (althrough I don't except Will to be that merciful ), and if that was the case, then they could sell it a little cheaper than Slave Bazaar. Otherwise, I don't really know.

I suspect that PeaPri will have to pay Will the same licensing fee just as if they were going to license an entirely different title (ie., no, I don't foresee a discount).

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
That might be true, but still... Well, if Nutech were told that there was a game and that it's being released in english, then they might make even a small comment about it, who knows?

But remember, usually the phrase "Based on the popular video (PC?) game" spells death for most anime. Don't believe me? Take a look at such titles as Art of Fighting, Tekken, Gowcaizer, etc.

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
Do we agree? For now, choice 3 sounds most likely to what Peach Princess will do...

I agree. In fact, I think that's the only thing they'll do. I remember a post made long ago by Kumiko Kamiyama-san that said pretty much the same thing.

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
It adds a litte more than that, I think... It also adds more voices to some of the characters (Even Cassius, I think), and some other stuff I've forgotten about, but I think there is enough stuff to make an expansion, even if it becomes a very "small" expansion.

The link for the old Slave Bazaar - Reinassance thread: http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/000605.html

Not much added besides the voices (Cassius not included) and one path which includes the three girls. Voices? It is not THAT important, put an extra path is.

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
So even if you say "just posters/lurkers", there would eventually be soem rumors about the whole thing anyway... and whoile msot newcomers doesn't bother to read allt hat much of the old trhreads, i'm sure that they do read one thread here and there. Besides, you can do a serach her eon these boards, so finding info about certain subject isn't too hard.

I may (and will) sound pesimistic, but let's face the truth: though most people can search the threads, how many will search through them. Besides some threads has been deleted (before K left), so there are no traces of them. We are, after all, humans.


quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
*sigh* Well, we might not agree on what is being discussed here, but I think we can agree on that Peach Princess has a few opinions on what to do in this... and every choice has it's risk too (as you no doubt know):

Do we agree? For now, choice 3 sounds most likely to what Peach Princess will do...


Disagreeing is the main point of the discussion board, isn't it?

As for the options, I don't think #3 is the best option, though it is the logical one. There goes my comment again: if Will knew that an English port of the game was on work, they should have done both (English and Japanese) at the same time. If they slipped, oh well, it is just a matter of keep-on going with the original plans. However, if that's going to happen, then I probably will skip the game...


quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
I agree. In fact, I think that's the only thing they'll do. I remember a post made long ago by Kumiko Kamiyama-san that said pretty much the same thing.

I sometimes didn't believe everything K wrote, so I don't consider that too seriously either. Remember it was "somebody" who mentioned the initial release dates...


quote:
Originally posted by Jeffrey:
But remember, usually the phrase "Based on the popular video (PC?) game" spells death for most anime. Don't believe me? Take a look at such titles as Art of Fighting, Tekken, Gowcaizer, etc.

There is nothing you can do when the anime sucks to begin with. I mean, AoF sucked, Street Fighter sucked (american version comics and the movie, though SF II - V was somewhat better), and so on. However, you didn't mention a couple that was worth seeing: Garou Densetsu, aka, Fatal Fury and Pia Carrot 1 & 2 (OK, it is not that good, but at least it didn't suck)

quote:
Originally posted by Nobody:
Well, Slave Bazaar was made by a third-party company, not by Will directly. That is the biggest problem.

True... Unfortunately, the fact that it was announced as a PeaPri project on works (and stopped) means a lot.

quote:
Originally posted by Nobody:
They would probably demand that Peach Princess purchase both titles seperately and would be too lenient about having their work altered, such as having Renaissance turned into an expansion.

If that's the case, then they should drop everything for Slave Bazaar and go directly to Renaissance. After all, if they are separate... Oh, well, all my complaints are useless, right now

quote:
Originally posted by Nobody:
The thing about expansions is that the tend to finish a game. Most of the stuff in an expansion is in the original game, it is just turned off. For example, someone I knew hacked StarCraft, and he found the units added in Brood War. Now, the units were not finished, but most of the information was already there. I think companies will often bury things they cannot complete by the release date or that they don't know what to do with, and they deal with it later with an expansion.

I won't blame completely the company, but on investors and gamers. Whenever a quarter or fiscal year passes and the game is not released, investors demands $$$ and gamers demands the games. They *have* to do something, after all. In the case of Brood War, I say that the extra $$$ for the expansion was worth it, as you get almost the same as what you got from the original game (that is, almost the same amount of missions), but at the better price (of course, you had to pay for both). Scenarios like this is what makes worth paying for expansions.


quote:
Originally posted by Nobody:
Personnally, I would rather just have Renaissance released instead of Slave Bazaar, but I doubt that will happen.

Ditto. As mentioned before, in the worst case scenario, there is still Himeya... BTW, there was a thread on which game PeaPri should choose next for licensing. Instead on asking that, could somebody answer, which game PeaPri will release next and when? (OK, haven't bought games from G-Collections, yet)

Hmm, I had’n’t heard before that the third party was uncooperative, I only heard that they said that there had been some trouble because ethat it was a third company - basically, they had to let Will negolate with that company (I believe that the name of that company is Discovery?) before they finailly sold the rights to Slave Bazaar to Peach Princes…

About movies/animes based on games, it is true that such an attempt most likely are going to fail becuase of various reasons; the story might be bas, the characters might not be as good or something else. But also remember that there is cases where an anime/movie have been successfully made that is counted by most as good, or as “not too badly done”.

I do agree with what most people says here: they should go on to Renaissance directly if possibile. but it’s unlikely that it will hapoeen, but still… Well, one can dream right? .

Besides,t here HAVE been discussions on “which game PeaPri will release next and when”. Lamuness didn’t say when, byt he said that most likely it’ll be X-change 2 or Brave soul that gets out next, But we’ll see… Now, it has been almost three-four months since Critical Point was released, if I’m not wrong, so it should soon be time for a new release. but it depends on how the work proceeds.

Besides, Lamuness haven’t said something in this subject yet…

quote:
Originally posted by Nobody:
As for buying rights to both Slave Bazaar and Renaissance and then just doing the latter, I don't see it happening. Why pay for something and then not do it? Also, since I think [b]Peach Princess has already paid for the rights to Slave Bazaar, they will probably just go with that and not bother with Renaissance.[/b]

And that's a little sad, don't you agre? Well, as I said, I can live without Renaissance, but it would still be nice to see it here...

Unfortunately, I will have to concur. I can’t see them spending the money to get Renaissance given how their sales of the rest of their titles have been holding up, given how they’ve already invested into Slave Bazaar, and given how they’re doing other games at the moment. The only way I can see Renaissance coming out is a long time after they release Slave Bazaar if there’s a real big positive response to the first one.

Well, sometimes it feels kinda unnecessary to start new threads to ask a "small something, when there is alreday a thread where it could get posted…

So, short and simple, anyone who’ve heard any news on the third part of the SB OVA?

quote:
Originally posted by Spectator Beholder:
(...)
So, short and simple, anyone who've heard any news on the third part of the SB OVA?

"SB"? "Spectator Beholder" OVA? In which you munch Nobody's leg? ^_^

quote:
Originally posted by olf_le_fol:
"SB"? "Spectator Beholder" OVA? In which you munch Nobody's leg? ^_^


Arrrgghh! Get serious, Olf [img]http://animenation.net/forums/images/smilies/smash.gif[/img]