The Black Cyc Initiation Project

Sorry people, I just couldn’t find a better title for this thread.

I know there’s been a bit of an interest in “dark” games, especially the eroge from Black Cyc. Hence, if people want “Black Cyc eroge” to be brought over by JAST, then your help is appreciated. Thank you! :slight_smile:

Mission 1

Email Peter Payne. Email has been sent. Waiting for reply and contact which will likely take a while since the Con is coming up.


Mission 2

Email Black Cyc, provided I can find their email. Anyone know where to contact them? The only email I could find is: sup port ATATATATAT cyc dash soft dot jp and that, regrettably doesn’t seem like the right one. =P

Choices I’ve: email them through THAT address or post on their developer’s diary(big no no… poor etiquette and sounds more like barging into another “group’s place”).

First email to Peter:

Hi, this is Alice. It’d be good to see Gore Screaming Shore and related titles from Black Cyc 'cos the West(well… the English-speaking world) needs more dark-themed eroge.

Yes, I’ve heard about the recent debacle about eroge and if negotiations might be more difficult or close to impossible now, I understand. But still, I’m keeping my hopes up until you deflate them.

snip

Thanks! And well, have a great day!
Alice

Email to Cyc:

Thanks to Computermania for the proofing for this sentence.

???VN???GSS???

“This is Alice and I’m an english-speaking VN player. I’m interested in seeing dark-themed eroge like GSS published in the West.”

Arigatou Gozaimasu

???


Let’s see… hmmm. I shall mention the links about the tools for inserting english into Black Cyc games, to both parties. =P Working on a Japanese sentence… hmm.

Here are some tools some people managed to program, so they could insert English text into Black Cyc games like GSS. Please click on the first link.

???

no! stop! this is not how you communicate with a company!

You’d be best off talking to people at JAST about how the tools are available / possible shortcomings with them and having them communicate with Cyc.

Well… that was what someone suggested in another thread(though in hindsight, I misread said reply… a little). viewtopic.php?f=14&t=6707#p100488

You serious that’s the way Japanese companies operate, huh?

I’m not going to give them the tools of course. >>;;

The first part of my post was generalizing on a company we knew JAST hadn’t made contact with.

Specifically dealing with BCyc: we don’t know what JAST’s position is on the matter is yet. There’s no need to write to Peter, because we know JAST was interested… plus Peter reads the threads on this board. The official word is the plan fell out because of technical difficulties. What we don’t know, is how bad those technical difficulties were, or if there was more they couldn’t tell us about. The only thing JAST let out, was that it was game engine issue. Might have been it. Might have been more.

First we need more information: would bothering Cyc just rub salt in wounds that should stay close? Maybe negotiation failed for sensitive reasons. Generally you do a letter campaign, to make parties aware that people want something or to let a party know something exists. JAST and BCyc both know there’s a Western following, and they’ve talked, so that’s a lot of the leg work done. What we don’t know, is how realistic it was to make it happen.

Someone attending an expo JAST is going to, could ask about it there and get the low down face-to-face. Is BCyc still possible or is it impossible for JAST.

There’s no need to do a letter campaign in this scenario though… one letter would probably be enough. I’d be totally willing to put together a formal message - even go as far as do it via good 'ole fashion postal mail. But I’d rather know what the soup flavor is, before drinking it. :slight_smile:

Ah, I see. Forget it… hmmm. :slight_smile: almost could die from loss of face (Just joking. :wink: )

I’ll just see what happens in the future, yeah? :stuck_out_tongue:

it won’t work
you wont be able to convince them to localize the game

Erm… why?

Oh, it doesn’t matter. =P

IF my interest in dark eroge is the only interest that remains in years to come, and I can’t learn japanese proficiently enough, and there aren’t enough english titles that i’m interested in, then I shall do the thing that makes the most common sense to me: simply move on to other pastures. :stuck_out_tongue:

By then translation software may be good enough to work so you don’t get weird phrases. Considering the rate of progress it is within the realm of possibility.

Translation software is getting pretty close to as good as it’s going to get. Unfortunately at some point you hit the limit of what you can do with an automated system. The problem is that a language is so much more than the words and grammar it is comprised of… in fact, those are the EASIEST parts

Wait, wait… wait… wait!!! One more thing I forgot to say. The statement I wrote in the previous post is nothing BUT pointless speculation. :stuck_out_tongue: I can’t tell what kind of person I’ll be in the future sooo… :lol:

Yes, I repeat: it is nothing but pointless speculation in a typical “doom and gloom” sort of manner. :stuck_out_tongue: [size=1]Now, you all know what kind of person I am. :oops: [/size]

Edit: I shall just carry on with my daily life, learning japanese and so on… and then we’ll see, k? :slight_smile:

Oh, I wouldn’t say that. It will continue to get better all the time. It’s just going to take a long while before something actually useful comes out. If I were a betting man, I’d bet that in my lifetime we’ll see automated translation that produces comprehensible output most of the time. “Comprehensible” does not mean “good”. A computer is never going to be as good as a human translator (unless it’s not an “artificial” intelligence anymore). But what we have now doesn’t produce comprehensible output.

(For example, current autotranslators suck at identifying proper nouns and names, and consequently often mess up spectactularly. Improving this would greatly reduce getting the translation software totally lost.)

But “In my lifetime” is a far cry removed from “in the next couple of years”. I don’t doubt that eventually major metropolitan areas will start having autotranslation being done at places like hotels, airports, and convention centers … and eventually your iPhone (or whatever) will have a translator app: take a picture, it OCRs text and subtitles it for you – or you can talk into it and have it interpret, so you can converse (after a fashion) with someone who doesn’t speak your language. But “eventually” is certainly not “soon” :slight_smile:

I think that automatic translators already produce comprehensible output. Translation between Germanic languages is rather excellent, and it even works between some language families quite well.

It doesn’t work for Japanese<->English, correct, but that’s because you don’t translate Japanese<->English. You can read Japanese and then write English or read English and then write Japanese but it’s not really translation because the meaning can very rarely be carried over. Making the translation more ‘comprehensible’ - in other words, having the output be perfect English or perfect Japanese is meaningless because the meaning will not be carried over. I do not think machine will ever* be capable of good translation in that sense. Simple sentences, devoid of context-- sure, they’re translatable, but they’re translatable now anyway - try Google Translate out, it’s excellent.

*should really quantify this. I think good machine translation will eventually be possible, but that the adoption of a universal language will precede it by many years. It should still be useful for historic texts however

Automatic translation software, translates direct words… the better ones include grammatical context. However for automatic translation software to be good, it needs to translate context statements and paraphrases. The problem with that, is it requires more storage space (for entire sentences) and processing power (to analyze the writing and access the huge database).

The technology to pull off accurate electronic translation is already here: those supercomputer code breakers the CIA and SIS have, are doing it all the time: taking absolute digital nonsense and translating them into actual words… from one language to another no less. However the cost effectiveness of mass producing those kinds of computers - or the willingness of intelligence agencies to open source their pattern seeking software - is not.

But since all languages have distinct patterns and systems, accurate language translators are a distinct possibility: there is finite number of sentence structures, even in a language as complex as English. If serious work and money was put into it, I’m sure it be in our lifetimes. Translators still wouldn’t be out of a job though… machines don’t recognize sarcasm. :stuck_out_tongue:

All in all though… if someone did invent such translation software, I’m sure they’d have one hell of a hurdle with copyright lawyers getting all upset about it. :wink:

Sure. We already have damn good translation software, actually. They’re usually called compilers. Now, of course, programming languages aren’t nearly as complex as natural language … but look at how primitive the first compilers were, and what they can do now. Also - like Narg said - there’s a big difference in between garbledygook and actual text in a language. The same sort of thing holds for computer languages - you could randomly generate sequences of tokens that - each token by itself - meant something in (say) C++ … and pass it to a C++ compiler - it will choke and die. But that’s – usually – not what people do with C++ or natural language.

(Which is an interesting point - even when we have good machine translation, Jabberwocky will remain essentially ineffable in any language other than English.)

And automatic translation will always be extremely stiff and wooden. It will have to be. What makes a good translation good is getting all the subtle nuances across as effectively as possible, and autotranslators will suck at that versus an expert for a very long time. Using autotranslators to watch a movie, or read a book, or play a game will always be inferior to natively understanding the work or getting a good translation. But what’s left over – “I’m sorry, I’m lost, could you tell me how to find <>” or “Yes, I’d like the filet mignon, medium well” or business-to-business autotranslation – will still be quite awesome.

Nandemonai, read the Japanese language edition of Finnegans Wake sometime.

It is eye opening to say the LEAST.

(I mean of course the translation by Yanase Naoki, not the later (incomplete) ones)

Have a taste:

???

Then read alongside the original. While Finnegans Wake is not exactly representative of literature as a whole, it’s a good look at how translations try to work.

If you’re looking for interesting translations into Japanese, another is Lord of the Rings.

I’ll plagiarize someone’s article for explanation. :stuck_out_tongue:

This was again an issue, when the movies came out:

You know… I think we should consider that if JAST was able to acquire the Cyc license, the BCyc games would have a higher-than-normal chance to be censored. Several contain, after all, some pretty wild sex… it makes Virgin Roster and Tsuki Possession look like Disney cartoons.

That being the case: would you buy an English BCyc game that was censored? Be honest now. Would you?

Scenario #1: If they just alter the CG images… would you still get it?

Scenario #2: If they completely cut out a scene or two… would you still get it?

Scenario #3: If they did both - alter CG’s and cut scene a or two… would you still get it?

They’re already mosaic’d, isn’t that enough? I think in this case we could tolerate leaving the mosaics on, given that a lot of the gore probably looks pretty goofy underneath

No to all three. Why license something that needs to be cut, when JAST has equally good offerings available from one of Will’s brands or Nitro+?