The NEW, Not Very Official, Hammer Out In A Day, Virtual

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#21

Interesting. May I ask you some questions?

1) What do the two selections say in the drop-down bar to the right of “Pass”?

2)Which button is the delete button and which is the edit button? I can’t see Japanese when you type it here, so please explain in terms of “right” and "left."

3) Tell me if this is how editing and deleting works: You type in the post # of the message you want, you type the password that you used to post the message, and then you click edit/delete?

[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-28-2004).]

#22

1)Top selection is for you. Bottom selection is for moderator/administrator.

2)left=edit, right=delete

3)Probably. Haven’t tried it myself.

#23

Okay. Thanks. I just tried it out. I think I’ll go and abuse my newfound power by editing the messages of people foolish enough to post without a password. Bwahahaha!

vanishes in a puff of smoke

#24

Just to ask again since this question is seemingly being ignored, what does “LESS THAN 1 year after the end of sales.” mean since only one of your games has ever gone out of print, ended it sales, and that one only went out because it was replaced with an “upgrade”.

Let’s use Kana as an example. Had Kana been released with V-Mate would it have a patch yet and if so when would that patch have been released? Or for that matter would DOR have a patch yet if it had been released under V-Mate?

Also why start this system if the additional services are still “in the pipeline” and in theory always can be thus having a system that always promises more and offers less.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-28-2004).]

#25
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
I'd also like to propose something someone on the PP board thought up (I think it was perigee). Couldn't the resale issue be solved by allowing the ability to "deregister" a game from your account? This allows username/password information to be kept personal, and also resets the 3 computer limit for the next user. Since the game could still only be installed by three computers at any given time with this method, the anti-piracy feature would still be preserved (pirates could never exploit the system in any significant way with such a limit). This solution would also solve the upgrade problem, since a user could just deregister his games from his old computers and register it on his new computers. Don't you think this solution would solve a lot of problems, and save GC a lot of hassle with customer support in the long run? Also, it seems like it would be pretty easy to program, as perigee pointed out.
[This message has been edited by Dark_Shiki (edited 10-28-2004).]

I believe I was the first person who brought up the resale issue. You'd have to check the monstrously big VM thread and see if wrong about that. That said, GC has no incentive to encourage resale (which I define as the purchase of a GC product by an end user, and then sale of the used product to another end user).

Look at it this way, for example. Let's say you bought one copy of LMMW and registered it w/ VM. Now if you're able to de-register your copy and give it to a friend, who then pass it along to another friend, and the hand-me-down cycle repeats and repeats and repeats, how many copies will GC have sold? Just one. Well, GC is using VM as a tool to prevent loss of sales. If they allow de-registering, then that defeats the purpose of adopting VM system.

#26
  • Sigh *
    So they’ll go on with this V-Mate crap anyway.
    Ah, well.
    G-Collections have a new enemy from now on.
    You can bet i’ll never cry if you run out of business.
#27
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
Look at it this way, for example. Let's say you bought one copy of LMMW and registered it w/ VM. Now if you're able to de-register your copy and give it to a friend, who then pass it along to another friend, and the hand-me-down cycle repeats and repeats and repeats, how many copies will GC have sold? Just one. Well, GC is using VM as a tool to prevent loss of sales. If they allow de-registering, then that defeats the purpose of adopting VM system.
Look at it this way for an example, I pass the game to a friend, the friend falls in love with these games and more importantly with the ones G-Collections has since that is the only one he or she has seen, so now they spend 50 dollars on a game they wouldn't of thought of before to a company they had not heard of before so G-Collections makes sales in the future from a hand-me-down given in the past. This too is plasuable.

#28

@Italicus

I can see why you’d say that. Peter Payne pretty much said that the Italian market doesn’t matter much in the big picture. So if CG does go out of business then I wouldn’t be sad if I were you, either. The thing is, Peter Payne is right. Italy isn’t the target for the sale of these games, and the V-mate is not set up for people who need to pay every time they access the internet. If these games were being translated into Italian, and that company came up with a new system that was a huge problem for a few of the Americans who import the games, do you think it would really matter to them? No, not from a business stand point.

I think that GC is somewhat foolish to confirm this system on all future games before they know how effective it is against piracy. This system does not bother me, but if it doesn’t reduce piracy then it has no purpose. We’ll just have to wait and see.

#29
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Just to ask again since this question is seemingly being ignored, what does "LESS THAN 1 year after the end of sales." mean since only one of your games has ever gone out of print, ended it sales, and that one only went out because it was replaced with an "upgrade".

Let's use Kana as an example. Had Kana been released with V-Mate would it have a patch yet and if so when would that patch have been released? Or for that matter would DOR have a patch yet if it had been released under V-Mate?

Also why start this system if the additional services are still "in the pipeline" and in theory always can be thus having a system that always promises more and offers less.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-28-2004).]

I'm obviously not part of GC, but if I may entertain those questions with theories of my own? [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] Let's say a production run is 10,000 copies of a game. (i'm just pulling a number at random.) If GC doesn't order another production run, then the patch would be (theoretically) released within one year of the last date of production for that title. or if GC sells out its stock way before the 1 year after production period is up, and decides not to order another production run, then they could release the patch as soon as the product is sold out. In that case, GC wouldn't be losing sales by disabling VM for that sold out product.

As for the additional services issue, I think the VM system registration process will be used to create a mailing list of customers of GC products. Those warranty cards you send out for tvs, dvd players, etc. put you on the manufacturer's mailing lists. And just like the way Peter Payne puts out frequent newsletters for jlist customers, I think GC will do something similar. That VM database of GC customers will also be useful for surveys and other communications from GC.

#30
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Look at it this way for an example, I pass the game to a friend, the friend falls in love with these games and more importantly with the ones G-Collections has since that is the only one he or she has seen, so now they spend 50 dollars on a game they wouldn't of thought of before to a company they had not heard of before so G-Collections makes sales in the future from a hand-me-down given in the past. This too is plasuable.

Yes, I understand that scenario. But that's what the 3 computers per copy of the game limit is geared toward, imo.

#31
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
I think that GC is somewhat foolish to confirm this system on all future games before they know how effective it is against piracy. This system does not bother me, but if it doesn't reduce piracy then it has no purpose. We'll just have to wait and see.

I agree that it's risky. If I was in charge of GC, I would at least wait a few weeks after the release of LMMW to make that decision. By December, I would have an idea of how problematic VM is for customers (b/c they will complain at the bbs and via email).

#32
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
I believe I was the first person who brought up the resale issue. You'd have to check the monstrously big VM thread and see if wrong about that. That said, GC has no incentive to encourage resale (which I define as the purchase of a GC product by an end user, and then sale of the used product to another end user).

Look at it this way, for example. Let's say you bought one copy of LMMW and registered it w/ VM. Now if you're able to de-register your copy and give it to a friend, who then pass it along to another friend, and the hand-me-down cycle repeats and repeats and repeats, how many copies will GC have sold? Just one. Well, GC is using VM as a tool to prevent loss of sales. If they allow de-registering, then that defeats the purpose of adopting VM system.

Did you bring up the solution? I think perigee did that, but I'd be happy to give you credit if you could find your post and show it to me. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img]

Anyway, I agree with what SCDawg said. Most newcomers to the genre would not buy games like these for full price cold turkey, without having sampled one before. Also, GC would want to include a fix since it makes customers happy and it solves other problems (like the hardware upgrade issue). They say customer service is their first priority, right? Also, if they ignore this problem, there's always the possibility of a lawsuit...I'm pretty sure restricting property rights/privacy in such a flagrant manner wouldn't go over well in American courts...

#33

Not to mention if someone resells a game that was already on three computers G-Collections is likely to be brought into any suits since it is their system that restricts the games to three computers.

#34
quote:
Originally posted by bishounen_blue:
@Italicus

I can see why you'd say that. Peter Payne pretty much said that the Italian market doesn't matter much in the big picture. So if CG does go out of business then I wouldn't be sad if I were you, either. The thing is, Peter Payne is right. Italy isn't the target for the sale of these games, and the V-mate is not set up for people who need to pay every time they access the internet. If these games were being translated into Italian, and that company came up with a new system that was a huge problem for a few of the Americans who import the games, do you think it would really matter to them? No, not from a business stand point.

I think that GC is somewhat foolish to confirm this system on all future games before they know how effective it is against piracy. This system does not bother me, but if it doesn't reduce piracy then it has no purpose. We'll just have to wait and see.


I think, from now on, i'll reccomend everybody to learn japanese, so we can bypass these suckers once and for all.

#35
quote:
Originally posted by Dark_Shiki:
Okay. Thanks. [img]http://princess.cybrmall.net/ubb/smile.gif[/img] I just tried it out. I think I'll go and abuse my newfound power by editing the messages of people foolish enough to post without a password.
As I recall, the system doesn't let you edit posts made without a password (including your own).

Their edit/delete function is just another flawed design element, IMO. I've seen users stealthfully reverse their position or delete posts when they change their minds. The lack of accountability wrt usernames and the ability to post under another's name (or any name) are two more flaws. You can't rely on anything you read on that bbs.

#36
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
Look at it this way, for example. Let's say you bought one copy of LMMW and registered it w/ VM. Now if you're able to de-register your copy and give it to a friend, who then pass it along to another friend, and the hand-me-down cycle repeats and repeats and repeats, how many copies will GC have sold? Just one.
Such a usage pattern should raise a red flag and result in human intervention. If someone registers/deregisters a game more than a set number of times, the game is locked, an email goes out (to the original owner) and that person must justify the request. It has the same effect as the current scheme, but it provides for legitimate exceptions. The logistics of physically passing a game from one person to another should also deter piracy among strangers, as now occurs with downloaders.

#37
quote:
Originally posted by Ecchifan:
I'm obviously not part of GC, but if I may entertain those questions with theories of my own?
You may, but I still would like to hear it straight from the horse's mouth (no offense to anyone that works for GC).

Also that does not answer the question, they say less than one year after the end of sales, which can be defined in many ways, they sell the last copy of Kana today but print another batch and suddenly it isn't the end of sales anymore because there are more possible sales from this new batch. Also have they sold out of any games yet? Ones before V-Mate?

Additionally before I answer my own question, don't confuse end of production with end of sales sales, which you and others have done in the past, they are not the same thing and should not be confused. Production could have ended 10 years ago but 200 games could still be sitting in their warehouse waiting to be sold.

Answer to the V-Mate question I asked above, if games prior to this system were ever sold out is seemingly no, therefore the question has not been answered beyond saying "we plan to have a patch" but in reality there never will be one since that end of sales can in theory be continually pushed back with producing more games when the first batch runs out if it ever does run out.

Oh so they put me on a SPAM list for their own products, joyful, that is one extra service I could do without.

[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 10-29-2004).]

#38

That’s right.

#39

Not to mention i doubt it will do much in the long run to stop piracy. Similar systems have been tried with no long-term success.

So it basically seems to piss of a lot of legitimate customers for the long-term for really short-term boost in copyright protection.

[This message has been edited by Jinnai (edited 10-29-2004).]

#40
quote:
Originally posted by Jinnai:
Not to mention i doubt it will do much in the long run to stop piracy. Similar systems have been tried with no long-term success.

So it basically seems to piss of a lot of legitimate customers for the long-term for really short-term boost in copyright protection.

[This message has been edited by Jinnai (edited 10-29-2004).]


Personally, i give them two years of life on the market, no more.