The PP Game ratings on the Erogamescape

This thread is somewhat dedicated, in a minor way, to Benoit, after reading an old comment of his on the Haeleth boards.

~

At the moment, I am incapable of accessing this aprticular website, and the page is mostly in Japanese, so, either way, the Erogamescape is rather inaccessible to me.

http://erogamescape.ddo.jp/%7Eap2/ero/toukei_kaiseki/

As to what this site is all about… it gives the mean to median fan ratings of almost every eroge in Japan.

What caught my interest was that two of my favourite games (or rather, oen of them, and the other hotly anticipated), got relatively low scores: Gimai Hitomi landed up with the mjere passing score of 50+%, while FoH had a very mere 67%.

(Btw, benoit, I stand by you… Hitomi is pretty good. But I wish they had an extended ‘true’ edning for Hitomi’s main path. Dark as it was, I wish there was a bit more consolation for the poor girl)

Anyway, back on topic… I really would like to know what the average rating is for the games by CD-Bros (the Zyx games oughta be popular… or maybe not), Crowd and the others. I sure as heck would like to know what the original gamers think of the original versions of the Zyx games, the Angelsmile games (well… there has to be a reason why Angelsmile broke up) and so on and so forth. And heck, I’d like to know how high Crescendo is (one Japanese game described it as being good in the English market, but being B-grade in its original market)

I’d greatly appreciate anyone who can give me some fidnings.

Even though I fear this is a waste of time and of my perfect post-count, I think I should at least reward the interest in the japanese market with a thorough reply.

English localizes games from D.O.: 81 [651] Kana - Little Sister 81 {176] Crescendo Full Voice Version 77 [116} Crescendo (unvoiced original) 67 [4] DOR 63 [29] Sensei 2 50 [1] DOR - special edition(The DOR that was localized was actually a mix of original DOR-games and thus the eroscape-rating isn’t really appliable. The same goes for Crescendo: the released version was a mix of the unvoiced version plus the voices from the DVD-version without the story-expansions of the latter.)

English localized games from ZyX:

69 [39] Tsuki - Possesion 68 [53] The Sagara Family 64 [43] Do you like Horny Bunnies? (2) 63 [12] Chain - the lost footsteps 60 [70] Do you like Horny Bunnies? 55 [28] Shukketsubo - Virgin Roster 42 [3] Ring OutEnglish localized Games from Trabulance:

62 [11] Let's Meow Meow 61 [20] Tottemo Pheromone 61 [35] Kango Shicyauzo 2 60 [16] Pick Me Honey 58 [67] Kango Shicyauzo (voiceless version) 57 [36] Tsukushite Agechau 4English localized games from Angel Smile

71 [23] Private Nurse 68 [15] Heart de Roommate 68 [16] Figures of HappinessEnglish localized games from Sekilala

61 [25] Come see me tonight 61 [17] Come see me tonight 2 60 [10] Hitotzuma Hime ClubEnglish localized games from other CD-Bros.-brands

61 [10] Jewel Knight Crusaders 55 [8] Hitomi - My Stepsister 51 [7] Slave PageantEnglish localized games from Crowd

74 [64] Yin-Yang! X-Change Alternative 70 [14] Brave Soul 63 [45] Tokimeki Check-In! 60 [71] X-Change 2 58 [14] Doushin 56 [22] X-Change 3 55 [60] X-ChangeEnglish localized games from Will (brand in brackets)

77 [168] Yume miru kusuri (ruf) 69 [12] Critical Point (Sweet Basil) 56 [14] Gibo (Guilty) 53 {61} Little My Maid (Sweet Basil) 47 [23] Snow Drop (Sweet Basil) 45 [14] W.C. - the forbidden chamber (Guilty)English localized games from C’s

85 [336] EVE Burst Error 77 [146] Desire 65 [49] Glo*Ri*A 63 [36] Divi-DEAD 55 [16] Amy's Fantasies 52 [32] Fatal relations 48 [82] ADAM - The double factor 46 [14] The Maid's StorySome of my personal favorites that are not yet localized (brand in brackets):

84 [231] Triangle Hearts 1-2-3 DVD Edition (Janis) 82 [680] Dai Akuji (Alice Soft) 82 [192] MinDEAD Blood (Black Cyc) 81 [451] Sudzukuri Dragon (Softhouse Chara) 77 [41] Galaxy Angel (Brokkoli) 75 [181] Canvas - DVD Edition (F&C) 75 [23] Galaxy Angel - Eternal Lovers (Brokkoli) 74 [153] LEVEL Justice (Softhouse Chara) 72 [38] Galaxy Angel - Moonlit Lovers (Brokkoli) 71 [177] Majokko a'la Mode (F&C) 68 [30] Dokusen (ruf) 67 [81] Eiyuu x Maou (Escude) 66 [113] Kuutei Senki (Eushully)… and the typical popular favorites that I haven’t played myself yet:

87 [1743] Fate/Stay Night (Type Moon) 84 [1093] Tsukihime (Type Moon) 82 [1477] AIR (Key) 80 [1331] Kanon (Key)EDT:
These are the current rankings from monday, November 20th 2006 at about noon UTC. As this post grows older, these rankings may (and will) change - and I won’t update this post with the changed ratings.

EDT:
Added amount of voters in square-brackets

[ 12-22-2006, 01:34 PM: Message edited by: Unicorn ]

It’s normal, Erogamescape often updates the archives, and it becomes unavailable during those moments (weekends in particular).

Tragically normal, I would say, if you think that the average Japanese erogamer has thousands of b-games available for evaluation…

Considering the frequency of score updates and the sheer number of b-game producers, a list of Links seems unpractical to me (besides, Erogamescape sometimes changed server and Internet address, what if this happens in the future too?).
Try using the internal “browser” for your searches, instead. It’s located on the top left of the main page (immediately below the login… “white squares” - I don’t remember the English term-), look for the “¬å¬ü¬ç√µ” (“search”) kanji.
Very often, you need to input kanji and/or furigana for browsing successfully, yes, but many games and software houses are named in romaji (Latin alphabet), fortunately, just remember that “¬ÉQ¬Å[¬É¬Ä”, “¬Éu¬É¬â¬É"¬Éh” and “¬ñ¬º¬ëO” are the Japanese words/search terms for “game”, “brand” and “name”, respectively.
Therefore, if you input “CROWD” using the “brand” and “name” search terms, you will find the game roster of CROWD games very quickly (NOT the CROWD page proper, please note. You need to follow the “brand Link” always located at the top of the game roster or of every individual game page).
On a side note, kudos to Unicorn for his patience and Work For The Cause :smiley: :wink: !

Unicorn, you have my utmost gratitude. I apologise completely for ruining your perfect post count. If anything, this would be a real eye opener for anyone who visits this site.

The following observations are assumptions based on the current ratings. They are, as such, bound to be fallacious, but I’m currently open to any theories in order to better udnerstand the market. If anything, I don’t mind beign corrected.

Assuming we go by the standard that any game that is of >70% is relatively good, than the number of localized games is very, very slim:

Crescendo (the localized version is a mix of both the original CD version and the DVD voices, so it’s kinda like a mix of both. Again, a bit surpsiing, noting the comment from an actual Japanese gamer, but, the ratings indicate otherwise. Crescendo, anyway, si good without a doubt)

Kana Little Sister (this one took me by surprise. Not a wonder they redid it in the form fo okaeri. It WAS popular)

Private Nurse (a bit of a surprise, but then again, there had to be a good reason why, like Kanon, PN was made into a non-H version for the PS2. Angelsmile’s only main break)

Brave Soul (lets see… if I was in Japan I had to choose between releasing Diablo 2, which is mainly Western in its image, lacked hot action scenes, and had very little artwork, with a game that had a relatively lacklustre RPG system but incredibly hawt artwork PLUS hentai scenes AND greater interactivity… this one has to be the given the benefit of culture doubt)

On the bright side, certain ‘dark’ games I know of don’t get away with it:

Virgin Roster (This is one game where I’d follow the generala dvice against it and not touch it. Anyone who plays it ahs to be willing to be play out the fantasy of being an actual evil person)

JKC - (the company Zerocool seems to be gone, and while I found its rating a bit too high, at least it wasn’t very popular)

Gibo - How interesting… both Hitomi and this game had similar ratings (I feel sorry for stepsisters). In the case of Gibo, as much as I liked the resolution fo Sheena’s path, a quick walkthrough will reveal that this game ahs far more hentai content than one would think. In fact, the point of the game was to get more hentai

There were those with a mediocre to low rating, but ones that I can understand:

Heart De Roommate - I like this game. Actually, it is popular. But, thing is, in its local market, its cliched. It offers the same thing you can find in another game of its sort. And when you put in the serious bits, it progresses no better than any other cliched series like it. I feel sorry for Angelsmile for this one… it could’ve been better, provided it was done in DVD format. Nevertheless, it was clsoe to the 70% mark, so, maybe, just maybe… Angelsmile may come back. If they may ever come back.

Hopefully, if they come back, Troika comes back, and Vice-versa.

Divi-dead: A relatively strong storyline in the way of Tsukihime kinda lost it towards the end. Was it the translation ? Was the origial agme like this ? What was it ?

Gimai Hitomi - This one is a bit understood. There are about only three paths with a meagre total of 8 endings, and where the choices only seem to matter at the end of the game. Granted, the flowchart WAS innovative, but Mercure didn’t actually explore it. Then again, this was Mercure’s first game, so I’d give them that as well. Hopefully, hopefully, Mercure, noticing they’re still around, should remake this game in DVD format, abd should play around with the options of the flowchart a bit more. And, if anything… Hitomi’s stories were strong, not that they weren’t. Perhaps soem Dan Kim intervention should be advised.

~

Aside from this, the general consensus is that games that were released by Peach Princess and G-Collections were not so much ‘bad’ sexploitation games as they were average run-of-the-mill games that didn’t really impact the original gaming community. There were a few exceptions, from the rare Angelsmile games, to the gems that are Crescendo & KLS.

With this in mind, noticing the low score of Snowdrop to complement this, these games were, logically speaking, easier to localize, as, despite their lack of popularity, they were cheaper to license. Sometimes, the price of a license may outshine its popularity, and a huge popularity may not do well for a license 9esp. in the case of Kanon) The exception seems to be in the case of D.O.'s games, where its license and popularity were both just right, but this is a rarity.

~

As such, I need to find out the ratings for the following. Part of it is to understand the fansub side of the market:

Majipuri (personal favourite after playing the fansub demo translation. I wodner if it’s EGS rating is low, it feels alotta like HDR, only longer)

Wind - A Breath of Heart - (we can but only hope for nnl1. And we need to understand its popualrity)

Pia Carrot (there’s some fansub work on this one, but one has to rummage round for it)

Bible Black - Hey… if Kitty Media is licensing it, perhaps we should know what reception for the original is like…

And, now, for something different:

KGNE - Funimation first announces that they’re licensing the anime udner the Japanese engrish title of ‘Rumbling Hearts’. Then, rumours spread that Funimation, or something connected to it, si going tor elease ALL three Sakura Taisen dating sims (no, not the anime… the actual games). Sega once said that theyw ere willing to release Sakura Taisen, the game, in America, but felt the amrket was too small. If the rumours are true, who knows ? And besides, a KGNE translation is way overdue.

~

Perhaps the emphasis shouldn’t be too JUST localize/translate the doujin novels, or JUST the official ones, but rather, a conscious effort to see whats popular and translate those.

And lastly, assuming if my theory is correct, it thus remains to be seen if Yume Miru Kusuri can do what Crescendo and KLS did before it. Its local rating is high, and it just got licensed, and, if anything, it seems to be the only game that can. Well, there is Bible Black, but I’m not sure about that one, and YMK seems to be the far gentler game. Also, an amateur writer is currently working on the first proper OEL visual novel, and the work for the Type-Moon games is going strong, with Tsukihie being just released, and F/SN in the process.

To sum up, we can but only hope.

[ 11-21-2006, 12:15 AM: Message edited by: Phineas Lucis ]

Well, well, well… what do you know ? Majipuri is just as good as Private Nurse. Maybe that’s the reason why I’m attracted to them both. I really, really do wish Majipuri gets translated in full someday.

sigh Nobody plays vintage games like Pia Carot these days. And even the games of choice of fansubbers are about as popular as the localzied games of the original market.

Was Wind really overhyped ? If they despised it so much, why didn’t they just switch their efforts to a game they preffered over a game they didn’t ? True, widn may be overhyped because it got its own anime and all that, but I think its all still worth it.

Really shocking to see how Shuffle got a relatively lacklustre rating, even though its anime was considered to be rather good.

~

And lastly…

[85 - KGNE]

Dammit, Funimation, G-collections, fansubbers, SOMEBODY… fansub this damn agme already ! Its got a huge rating that demands to be translated by someone.

Ah well… we can but only wait.

Wow…only 3 (officially translated), if you can count Cresendo, over 80, one of which is a old game. Only 5-6 (again Cresendo) in the 70’s. That’s 8 that ae in the top.

But 16 with <60%.

Do note that a lot of it has to do with age.

In the case of the 70% Crescendo, the one rated was the ‘older’ version. The 80% one, which was the DVD version, clearly shows that what the Westerners can also appreaciate what the Japanese market appreciates, and that the CD-Bros chain can produce a gem once in a while.

And, again the G-Collection games were not as abd as some make them out to be… they were never purely sexploitation or anything, but mediocre games that one could get anywhere. I’d be inclined to add that relatively popualr games ended up witha 60%+ rating due to age (as in the case of SHuffle, the Pia Carrot and Da Capo series). Effectively seeking, the higher rated oens are the ones with a longevity to them (and ironically, Crescendo seems to have this. It really si far better than I thought it was)

Games like SNow Drop and Ring Out were made in the period before 1999, that is, before Kanon, KLS, and other games of the like, when the drawing sued was mainly digital, and thus, archaic. Thus, their popularity has dwindled, sine people prefer uploaded artwork over soemthing done on a computer.

Tough crowd it seems. Given how many Bible Black OAVs there are, I’m surprised the game is rated under 80. I guess people like the anime more than the game.

You’re logic falls flat though with highest rated game, Eve Burst Error. It is by far much older than many games on there and yet it has the highest rating of all.

[ 11-24-2006, 07:09 PM: Message edited by: Jinnai ]

Perhaps, but I’ld also thaink that it could possibly be an exception. The Pia Carrot and Da Capo games were all popular in their time, but now, theya re pretty much gone.

Another possible factor I’d hit upon could be the availability of the game. From what I know, ANgelsmile games still have some ratings because the company went down about two years back. And, if I’m not wrong, C’sware isn’t around.

And again, even if this weren’t true, it’s only one exception. I need to find more vintage games that are of this high calibre to reconsider your stance.

[ 11-24-2006, 09:53 PM: Message edited by: Phineas Lucis ]

I really enjoyed playing Wind -a breath of heart-, so much so that I completed it within a week. Hopefuly the patch will be released publicly soon so everyone can enjoy it :slight_smile:

[ 11-25-2006, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Duouk2000 ]

Deciding to bump this thread after noting oen thing.

YMK had a good rating, but I wodner… what other games by the companies within CD-Bros and Will, and the other games attached to G-Collections and PP are have a rating 70% and above ? Crescendo, YMK, Private Nurse and KLS are obvious answers, but what other non-localized games have ratings these high.

As to why I can’t access this site now… there is a firewall in my workplace.

  • sigh *
    So it’s again just me who wants to bother with this kind of question?

Very well, here goes:

CROWD:

70 &#91;3&#93; miss you&#40;CROWD FAN BOX ‚Õ‚ç‚· miss you&#41;Guilty+(Will):

73 &#91;10&#93; ƒNƒ‰ƒXƒƒCƒg‚Ì‚¨•ê‚³‚ñ Immoral TeacherGuilty(Will):

75 &#91;17&#93; -¸•P `"'‘÷‚Ü‚Ý‚ê‚Ì-ߏì` 71 &#91;17&#93; -êìƒLƒƒƒXƒ^&#91;2 70 &#91;31&#93; ¹"zƒ&#125;ƒŠƒA`"'‘÷‚Ü‚Ý‚ê‚Ìœð‰÷Žº`Ruf(Will):

[code]79 [94] "z-êŽsê Renaissance
76 [219] -†ù‰ñ˜L2
76 [284] -†ù‰ñ˜L
76 [95] ƒZƒCƒŒƒ€‚Ì–‚-‚½‚¿
74 [30] æ܍߂̋³ŽºBADEND
72 [106] "z-êŽsê
71 [72] æ܍߂̋³Žº The seven stories of sin

[CODE]

Rouge (Will):
[code]
77 [38] Love Split 5"Ԗڂ̋Gß
70 [99] ‚±‚Ì‚Í‚¿‚á‚ê‚ñ‚¶[/code]Sweet Basil (Will):

  • none above 69 points -

(I am going to add later the newer Will-Brands, for now I only mentioned the old brands that I still could remember… ^^;;;; )

Hermit (Will):

[code]81 [367] FOLKLORE JAM
80 [439] ‚Ü‚Ü‚ç‚Ô

[CODE]

Propeller (Will):
[code]
84 [611] ‚ ‚â‚©‚µ‚Ñ‚Æ
75 [85] ‚Ä‚±‚¢‚ê‚Õ‚è‚ñ‚¹‚·I–l‚ªŒ©‚¦‚È‚¢ŒN‚Ì‚½‚߁
73 [26] ‚ ‚â‚©‚³‚ñ‚Æ‚µ‚イ‚°‚ñ‚­‚ñ•ƒeƒ"ƒvƒe[ƒVƒ‡ƒ"EƒIƒuEƒtƒŒƒOƒ‰ƒ"ƒX[/code]Pulltop (Will):
[code]86 [282] -y‚©‚É‹‚¬A-킵‚Ì
80 [530] ‚ä‚Ì‚Í‚È
76 [168] ‚¨Šè‚¢‚¨¯‚³‚Ü
75 [109] ‚Æ‚ç‚©‚Õ‚ÁI TROUBLE CAPTOR
73 [190] ‰Ä­-
71 [199] PRINCESS WALTZ[/code]SpiritSpeak (Will):

  • none above 69 points -

(Thanks to byndhrzn for reminding me of the first three brands. There may still a few Will-brands be missing, but I forgot to look them up myself… ^^;;; )

Empress (Will):

  • only one game with rating 57 [53]: “CLEAVAGE” -

Forst (Will):
[code]75 [1] GEMATORIA:CODE
72 [4] FIRST ANCHORƒtƒ@[ƒXƒgƒAƒ"ƒJ[[/code]juliette (Will):
[code]73 [11] ‰ÄFŒö‰€ "d"g"ƒ‚̉º‚ň¤‚ðŒê‚é[/code]Lucha! (Will):

  • none above 69 points -

Sincere (Will):
[code]75 [32] ‚Å‚·™‚ß‚½
73 [106] ¬ÉV¬É"¬ÉV¬ÉA¬Å@¬ÅSincerely to you¬Å[/code](… and that were the missing Will-brands that I talked about before.)

D.O.:
[code]88 [889] ‰Æ‘°Œv‰æ ãJ" (‰Æ‘°Œv‰æ 'lj¯)
86 [873] ‰Æ‘°Œv‰æ
79 [9] -dbí‹L2 -êt–¾‚̐íŽm‚½‚¿-
76 [188] ¯‹ó™‚Õ‚ç‚Ë‚Á‚Æ
76 [56] -¸2
76 [23] ‚·‚߂炬‚̛ޏ-‚½‚¿"Á•Ê"Å
75 [48] -¸
75 [14] -êì‹äŠy•" ‘J‚Ì-¸Žú'B
74 [186] á÷@‚ä‚«‚'‚­‚ç
74 [130] ¯‹ó™‚Õ‚ç‚Ë‚Á‚Ɓ–²" 
71 [49] ‰Ä‚̂ЂƂµ‚¸‚­
71 [47] ‚·‚߂炬‚̛ޏ-‚½‚¿
71 [3] ‚¹E‚ñE‚¹E‚¢ ¶º
71 [4] ¯‚̍»•¨Œê3
70 [97] ŠC"¹[/code]Angel Smile (CD-Bros.):

  • only game with more than 69 points: “Private Nurse” -

Trabulance (CD-Bros.):
[code]70 [1] ‚Ó‚­‚ç‚Ý‚©‚¯ PG ‚肽`‚ñ‚¸ DVDPG
70 [17] "ñ–‡‚ŊŌ삵‚¿‚Ⴄ‚¼[/code]Sekilala (CD-Bros.):
[code]70 [15] ‚¨‚Ë‚¾‚èƒ~ƒ‹ƒL[ƒpƒC
70 [18] «ˆ¤Šw‰€‚Ó‚¥‚¿‰È
70 [5] ‚Ý‚ñ‚Ȃɍ¡–遙‰ï‚¢‚É-ˆ‚ā@- –،˂̃JƒM‚͈ê‚[/code]Ignition (CD-Bros.):

  • no game above 69 points -

Zerocool (CD-Bros.):

  • no game above 69 points -

(oops, there were also two missing brands of CD-Bros… ^^;;; )

My Hime (CD-Bros.):

  • none above 69 points -

Yamitsu (CD-Bros.):

  • none above 69 points -

(hmmm… so forgetting them did no harm to the answer of this question (“wgich games with a rating of 70 and above…”), it just made the list of “useless names” shorter…)

ZyX:
[code]90 [1} LetfsIƒpƒCƒŒ[ƒc ‚Æ‚ç‚Ô‚éE‚΂©‚ñ‚·
75 [1] -d¬ãS"¬¢"¬∞"E¬ñ@’
71 [12] “√∑"M¬ã¬≥¬ét¬Ç¬ø¬Ç¬¶¬Ç√®
70 [2] Shi/Ko/Mi ‚ ‚¦‚¬še‚«
70 [86] ¬à√∫"√†¬ä’¬ê√µ2
70 [15] ¬ã¬∂¬å¬ù”`¬ê√†CRAZY KNUKLE¬áU[/code]EDT:
Added amount of voters in square-brackets

[ 12-22-2006, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Unicorn ]

Ayakashibito by Propeller’s Soft (Owned by Will), PC version has 84/100
http://erogamescape.ddo.jp/~ap2/ero/toukei_kaiseki/brand.php?brand=1176

Folklore Jam by Hermit (Will again) is 81/100
http://erogamescape.ddo.jp/~ap2/ero/toukei_kaiseki/brand.php?brand=1018

Harukani Aogi Urawashino, Pulltop’s (Will once more) last game is 86/100
http://erogamescape.ddo.jp/~ap2/ero/toukei_kaiseki/brand.php?brand=689

By the way, I’m in no way saying that high score at sites such is erogescape guarantees that game might be absolutely suitable for everyone, or in the context of this forum, to be potential candidate for western release by PP (or anyone else) any more than games with lower scores.

But, they sometimes do reflect their popularity and ability abroad.

Brave Soul does not count; as an RPG, it wa slacklustre (in comparison to Diablo), and even it’s hentai was done better elsewhere. Still, I soemtimes wish they did Diablo that way (I’d like some hot Paladin/Amazon action)

~

Anyway… it seems obvious now. D.O., the first company licensed by G-collections, was very strong in Japan(not a wonder Kana was remade) The other companies, even Zyx, all tend to borderline on being above average at best. And a real pity… G-collections, with their limited budget, couldn’t possibly license all of the best D.O. titles. SOmeday, I hope those D.O. games make it to the West.

The WIll softhouse seems far more promising. Especially ruf and the others. Looks like it may really depend on the Peach Princess brand name, first, before G-collections, and hopefully, the D.O. games.

But was Diablo a bishoujo RPG? No? Then don’t compare them, they focus on different things.

Benoit, I was talking about the failure of Brave Soul overseas. I Brave Soul did well in Japan, I can udnerstand, but, honestly speaking, it couldn’t survive in the West. Heck, even as a bishoujo RPG, Brave Soul didn’t offer much; it was mroe of a hack-n-slash fest, like aforementioned Diablo.

I mean, if you want a real, tried-and-true Japanese RPG, you’d want something like Grandia, Final Fantasy (of course), or, at the very least, Zelda. However, all these feature a specific RPG turn-based engine, while all of Brave SOul’s relied on a real-time engine, like Diablo’s.

What I’m talking about ehre, mind you, is only half of Brave Soul, which can be comapred to Diablo 2. The other half is the bishoujo game. dating sim/interaction bit, which DIablo hardly had.

For a Bishoujo game Brave Soul did exceptionally well. The market for such games is much more limited than Final Fantasy and Zelda. Trying to compete with that??? Ha! About the only rpg titles that might be able to would be other SE titles today, like Dragon Quest, Kingdom Hearts or Star Ocean. Outside SE and Nintendo’s/Campcom’s Zelda, might be a .hack//series from Bandai and GTA from Rockstar. There is a reason why Square-Enix is known as the king of rpgs.

I mean, come on, comepeting with Final Fantasy and Zelda??? Those’re in the league of games like Halo series, GTA and Super Mario Bros. series. Name a Bishoujo game that has competed on that level.

[ 12-19-2006, 10:24 PM: Message edited by: Jinnai ]

Exactly ! B-games have yet to reach that level… though I do have my eye on Utarewarumono (did I get the name right ?) SOmething that has Brave Soul’s b-game antics, but with a deeper, mroe developed RPG system.

And no b-game has reached that level, at least in the West. As for Japan tiself… that’s another question. I think I’;ll start a numebr of threads that’ll discuss factors that’d lead us to one main topic.