Thoughts on Kichiku (Brutish) Games

Visual Novel Community Archive, 2000-2009
#1

Seems that PeaPri had been selecting a series of Jun’Ai (Pure Love) games for release ATM.

But I wa wondering if people want to see some of the Kichiku (Brutish) Games being release upon them.

For the uninitialated,According to YYoshi-san,Kichiku games are PC bishoujo games with an emphasis on hardcore eroticism.They may be an adventure game with a twisted plot, a story-based S&M or ‘sexual harassment’ simulation, or like Studio Mebius’ Zetsubou, the player may even assume the role of a criminal rapist stalking his prey on the streets.

Bondage, molestation and rape, sexual violence, hardcore sex and the like are aplenty where these genres are concerned.

Does anyone would like to see one of those games being released ? Or do you want PeaPri to keep on releasing Jun’Ai games ?

#2

Well, for one thing, I have no problem in the idea of Peapri releasing any brutish game…Besides, I do not know if you could classify Slave bazaar as a brutish game(looks like it though), but, regardless of its nature, I want to own that particular game…

Preferably, I would like Peapri to continue on releasing Jun’ai games, such as Snow drop…What could I say, I am a sucker on those kind of games…I could play all day long playing it…

Anyway, if there is a demand and profit on those brutish games, there are no reasons for Peapri to stop releasing them here…

#3

well, from a business and economic prospective, I am sure that there will be a market out there for violent adult anime game. The inordinate profit generated from the distribution of pedophilic and sadomasochistic materials is a compelling evidence of a consistent and sustainable demand for people with such sexual preferences.

From a societal and personal perspective, however, sexual activities that involve un-consensual partner(s) through the use, or the potential use, of retailatory actions in any form are univerially condemned as heinous crimes by anyone with an iota of common decency in his/her bone. I am not a religious person in any tangible form (I am trained in argubly the most secular discipline possible). Yet, I am convinced that any mean that depicts “kichiku” activity is an antithesis of what an advance civilization with certain degrees of technological marvel and cultural enlightenment should be.

If the name Peach Princess becomes synonymous with phrases equivalent to “sick bastard”, then I will refuse to associate myself with PP in any imaginable way. I do not want to be regarded by non-gamers as a person of utmost moral trepidation.

Perhaps Peach Princess can create a seperate division that specializes in kichiku games, but the finished products would not bear the any recognition to Peach Princess itself, similar to what Walt Disney does to Miramax in movie production. But the last thing I want is to see a rape scene when I log on to the Peach Princess website.

Phi

#4

Sorry, I don’t like the Brutish / Fetish genre. I usually get bishojo games for the storyline. I prefer the Action Adventure type (Eve burst error), comedy (X-Change), or Romantic types (Tokemeki Check-In, SnowDrop).

#5

Ditto here. Given that a “tame” Guilty title like WC was a total no-no for me, I ould hardly consider more hardcore/fetish stuff.

BTW, how about some other ren’ai games? ^_^;

#6

I personally don’t really like Brutish games in general, but different tastes for diffent people.

#7

Kumiko-san, I know this forum is not the best place to discuss about legal issues. However since you did ask for different opinion, I have several quick comments about the interpretation of the First Amendment.

Contrary to what many Americans would like to believe, the sanctity of “freedom of speech and expression” is not (and should not) be absolute in many circumstances. For example, if the defendant is intended to 1) achieve particular criminal consequences [known in criminal law as “specific intent”] 2)present a “clear and present danger”, and 3)result in objective amounted to a grave evil, then the defense of First Amendment right will not withstand the scrutiny of the Court.

To put it in a real-world perspective, do you think it is criminal to shout the “n” word in a black congregated church? You bet it is. How about airing hardcore porn in public channel? Yep. In terms of freedom of artistic expression, I remembered an incident in British Columbia where two men were arrested for conducting their “artistic” project in the middle of a local public park. This “project” involved one man taking pictures of his partner, who was holding the head of a cock (the animal) in one hand while “fidgeting” his own cock (the organ) with the other hand. What do you guys think? Is it a crime or an art?

The fact is that there are adverse societal effects (the economic parlance of negative externality) in certain individual activities. Just like smoking, prostitution, and gambling, statutory rape even between consensual partners IS a crime. The last thing why I consider pedophilia a crime is concern over morality.

One quick note, individual states are within their constitutionally enumerated power to impose behavioral standard to citizens of their own state (known as “Police Power”).

My other point is that the First Amendment has been perversely manipulated by certain social groups. During the 1960s, the issue of privacy was argued successfully in the Burger Court by the social progressive as part of First Amendment right. Without getting into the specific, they essentially argued that certain rights in the First Amendment were unattainable without the assurance of privacy. Therefore, the right of privacy was guaranteed “implicitly” in the First Amendment. Now I am not against privacy, but its ludicrious to believe the legal interpretation of this argument because nowhere in the Bill of Right does the word “privacy” exist. The proper way to do it is to enact a constitutional amendment on the issue of privacy.

All in all, I just want to challenge Kumiko-san’s categorical advocacy for unfettered artistic right. Granted that there must be a delicate balance between individalism run amok and totalitarian police state, the concept of sacrosanct self-expression right sometime must yield to the promotion of social welfare.

Just a final food for thought, do you think its a good idea to let people buy grenade launcher freely for an ostensibly “artistic” reason? Sure, it might be true that 99.99% of grenade launchers’ owners are responsible owners who won’t go out and do a Rambo-style stunt, just like players of “kichiku” games won’t necessary go out and rape/molest people. However, if anyone can honestly think of another purpose of those two products beside conveying the message of harm and malice, let me know.

Phi

[This message has been edited by Phibrizzo (edited 08-21-2001).]

#8

Hey Phiz, what law school do you go to?

-Picky
Only a first year.

#9

I think I’m going to side with oneesan this time . I believe that as long as both party members are happy about it, keep the whips cracking and the candle wax dropping . Well, not that I’m into that kind of stuff . I probably just keep an open mind towards things . It’s just a matter of personal opinion whether it’s positive or the opposite . Just keep in mind that these guy are trying their best to bring us a whole new gaming expierience .

#10

Well, here’s an additional/alternative argument thrown into the fray. Although it has a couple of holes one can drive a truck through and I don’t quite personally agree with it myself, it does have its valid points. It’s not entirely related to bishoujo gaming per se but actually about the adult industry (specifically, the porn industry) in general.

quote:
Why is it that you conservatives, who claim to be against governmental interference and regulation, passionately and vociferously attempt to curb individual freedoms and liberties every chance you get? Just take a look at the deceptively named Religious Freedoms Restoration Act, a thinly-veiled state-sponsored attempt to re-introduce Christian prayer in the schools and work-places of Americans, no matter what their belief systems. The war on drugs is another such misguided attempt at social engineering on a mass scale. Conservatives, it seems, are only concerned with freedoms as they relate to the regulation of industry. Individual freedoms be damned. And as they stand as crusaders against pornography, they are at the forefront of this hypocritical assault on civil liberties.

The sex acts portrayed in the vast majority of pornographic films are not, in and of themselves, illegal, un-natural or socially unacceptable. In fact, they are completely natural acts of physical interaction between consenting adults. Indeed, without such acts as are recorded on videotape for the adult-film market, humankind would be wiped off the face of the earth within the space of a single generation. If we argue that sex is not just for procreation, then we must accept that, whatever else it may be, sex is also an acceptable way to get and give pleasure. To argue that pornography goes against societal mores is hypocritical, as pornography is nothing more than the distribution of filmed sex acts. What is it about this which is abhorrent? The sex act itself certainly isn’t abhorrent, a fact to which pretty much anyone who has ever had sex will attest. And you would have to go deep into the darkest jungles of Borneo to find someone who believed that the act of filming is, in and of itself, immoral or ‘wrong’. And as long as we live in a capitalist society, it would be hypocritical to say that the marketing and distribution of said recordings is, in and of itself, immoral. So, what exactly is it about the combination of these three innocuous elements that renders the end result so objectionable? What alchemical process infuses the resultant media with the power to shock, disgust and (allegedly) warp the minds of the public at large?

The porn industry is just that: an industry. It’s business! And, as it stands, working in porn is safe when compared to most other industries. Compare the on-the-job death rates, for instance, of porn industry workers versus that of pulp and paper mill workers, taxi-cab drivers or roadside construction workers. It barely registers. Contrary to popular belief (and the shamelessly gleeful anticipatory prognostications of meddlesome, finger-sniffing blue-noses), the AIDS rate among porn industry workers is not significantly higher than that of society at large. Interestingly, it is far more injurious to one’s health to be a professional athlete than it is to be a worker in the porn industry.

Then there are those who argue that the women (but not the men, apparently) who work in porn do so out of desperation, and that it is despicable because of this fact. To that I must say: so what??? For ninety percent of humanity, the work they do is the result of desperation. Perhaps the only valid critical reading of the porn industry would be a Marxist reading, in full context of the inherently immoral, cannibalistic nature of capitalism, which we choose to accept (myself included) because despite its faults, it usually works out alright.

To those who argue that porn amounts to little more than prostitution, I must say: you’re RIGHT! The same could be said of any other wage-earning profession. The steel-worker, the miner, the fisherman… aren’t they, in effect, selling their bodies for money? Why not picket the opening of a new mine or cannery? It would make as much sense as railing against the industry of pornography.


#11

…You know, it’s kind of scary–when I first came across this article, some of my comments were nearly the same as Kamiyama-san’s. A bit unnerving for me to find someone who has thoughts and attitudes that parallel mine on some levels…

And the post about the AVN Online articles and the subsequent discussion has me thinking of putting up one of my semi-regular “Rant of the Day” on the Himeya BBS…expect one in a couple of days.

#12

Just my two cents worth here:
The use of the words pornography and hentai have both been used as a broad brush to cover any and all things of a mature and adult nature. When Playboy came out it was called porn. Having seen what the centerfolds were in its first years it was publish, I would say that they were no different then the pin-up art of the times.
An example would a woman laying on a rug or sitting on a bed shot at an angle showing her side, a bare breast and nothing else, her legs were close and you didn’t see her from the rear. These were all the same type of poises that the pin up artist were using before Playboy. But because it was an actual person it was indecent. I have read both Playboy and Penthouse and I will tell you that I find Playboy more tasteful then Penthouse, but Playboy is still label as pornography.
On the issue of conservative, I would label myself one. I do not care what anyones idea of sex is as long as they do not mind mine and we both do not try to shove it down the other’s throat. But to see one of the most strict laws of pornography, look to the north of the U.S., in Canada which is at times called a liberal or left leaning government. The Canadian Supreme Court has upheld this law in 1992 and it is still in effect (at least I think it still is, the issue of Playboy is dated June 2000 and state that it is before the Court again). This law was based on personal philosophy of two feminist with leftist views. When a book shipment was stopped from from entering Canada because the Custom official found that they violated this law, it was an irony because the books were by one of the feminist. You can find adult books that are published in Canada, but their U.S. edition can not be imported because they violate the law. The feminist’s had only original wanted to target books that they felt degraded and depicted women as sex object of men, and even objected to that fact, when a lesbian book was rule as obscene(they did not think a women degrading another women was porn). Also one should look to the campuses of U.S. college’s to see that many of the policies that govern free speech, what is decent and political correctness are being written by liberal and and those who say the lean to the left. Each side in the political arena have they own reasons for doing what they do, but when it is not balanced by an opposite view point or dissenting opinion then free speech regardless of what the speech is for, is endanger.
This has been my two cents worth.

#13

Hello everyone.

Well, I support and enjoy both “jun-ai” and “kichiku” titles.

Personally, I lean more towards the “kichiku” titles. I enjoy the darker side to erotica. I find no shame in having an interest in subject matters that some people find taboo or offensive, such as bondage, SM, rape and so forth. Besides, it is fantasy, not reality, and it is my right. No one should have their voice censored, and my like of this genre does not make me “abnormal”. It seems that some people have trouble distinguishing between fantasy and reality nowadays. I try to keep an open mind and respect everyone’s opinions, even though it may not be returned.

I think it is terrific that Peach Princess brought over a title like Water Closet. I hope that there is a chance to see more titles similar to it. If I can make some sort of a difference, I will try my best. I hope there are more people like myself who can voice out their like of “kichiku” titles.

I wish I had more to add…

Thank you for your time.

[This message has been edited by Joshua (edited 09-08-2001).]

#14

I haven’t got WC yet. I got Check-in fine. I think it’s time I email Peter to see what happened, it’s almost two months since it was out and pre-order that. I personal don;t like violent and brutish ideas. But everyone is different and one must have an open on other people’s opinions. I bought Wc to support PP if is a good game that even better. They haven’t really disappionted me yet.

#15