H games without h-scene is a like a burger without a bread. Still not all H-scene is nice, some of them can make you sick.
Mention the game and it’s sick of scene.
The “sex after being raped” scene. It just screams bad plot device, and is unrealistic.
I hated that in hentai games.
quote:
Originally posted by vikitehwaffu:
The "sex after being raped" scene. It just screams bad plot device, and is unrealistic.
I hated that in hentai games.
It's a bad plot device but how many Soap Operas have used such a plot to the joy of fans? No never watched any, just remember hearing this stuff on VH1's I Love the '80's.
As for the scenes the forced sex of any kind, psychical and psychological is not a favorite.
And it’s bad in soap operas too. Couldn’t stand watching the characters act so stupid.
I haven’t really played much in the way of “dark” games, so I don’t have a lot to draw off of, but I can’t really stomach the rape scenes themselves… whether consentual sex comes afterward or not. Although, I have to admit that I have trouble buying the, “You raped me, but I’ve fallen in love with you…” bit.
In defense of the Rape–>Consentual Sex motif:
>>The “sex after being raped” scene. It just screams bad plot device, and is unrealistic.<<
First, what is the alternative? Rape–>nervous breakdown and three years in therapy? That is not much of a story line. A realistic response by the “victim” is not likely to be one of going out to find more sex partners. However, these are SEX games, you have to leave the character wanting more.
Another point on realism. Here is the realism plot: Nervous, insecure young man asks beautiful girl out. She says no. End of story. Again, not much of a $50 game.
I am not, by any means, suggesting that people who do not like dark fantasies should like rape scenes. For those of us who do, there are certain conventions that make it “ok.” The first one is that, eventually, she ends up liking it. In literature (if paperback porn can be called literature) this can often take several sessions and is the main focal point of character development. Usually she is developing into a nymphomaniac sex-slave In my limited experience of H-games things seem to happen faster than that. Another convention is that the “aggressor” is so good at it that the girl “comes” around. A corollary to this is that she is very “responsive” but needs to be shown what she is missing, or to be taught her “true nature.” There are a few others. None of them have anything to do with reality.
Fantasy rape is different from the real thing. Fantasy rape is about sex. Real rape is about violence. Fantasy rape is, to a large extent, about getting around the “what if she says no?” problem and getting straight to the “Oh my God, that was wonderful!” part. We go into it knowing that that is how it turns out. In other words it is fantasy. Realism has nothing to do with it. It is based on literary conventions that go back to dime romance novels.
Games that have dark themes should be labeled as such. That would help me find them and others avoid them. However, if you don’t like the rape scenes, buy different games. I don’t complain about the sappy “oh, how can I get Cutie-chan to notice me?” scenes in lighter games, I just don’t buy those titles.
Paulish
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There are 10 kinds of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don’t.
quote:
Originally posted by Paulish:
In defense of the Rape-->Consentual Sex motif:
>>The "sex after being raped" scene. It just screams bad plot device, and is unrealistic.<<First, what is the alternative? Rape-->nervous breakdown and three years in therapy? That is not much of a story line. A realistic response by the "victim" is not likely to be one of going out to find more sex partners. However, these are SEX games, you have to leave the character wanting more.
Another point on realism. Here is the realism plot: Nervous, insecure young man asks beautiful girl out. She says no. End of story. Again, not much of a $50 game.
(...)
Yeah but between the two there is no question in my mind that in reality it is a lot more likely that the nervous, insecure young man asking the beautiful girl out just might get a yes (probably happens at least 2 to 3 times out of ten even if it is out of pity on her part) then the raped girl falling in love with the one that raped her.
No these do not have to be realistic, and yes they are at least partly sex games, but that guy could find other partners, who he does not rape, and the dark aspect of the game could be his cold-blooded murder at the hands of the girl he raped. Dark themes, murder and rape, and yet more realistic and still sex since he finds other girls who he does not have to rape since they are willing as he runs for his life, yet such a plot probably would not sell huh?
quote:
Originally posted by Paulish:
Usually she is developing into a nymphomaniac sex-slave
(...)
Yes though that turning into nymphomaniac sex-slave from being raped is part of the turn-off for me, frankly I think it would be more interesting, and in it's own way darker, having him run for his life (perhaps having consensual sex along the way fearing more people after him if he rapes them too) as she hunts him down to murder him, not that much of a sex based game though huh?
quote:
Originally posted by Paulish:
However, if you don't like the rape scenes, buy different game
Were it that easy, I am thinking of most of the games recently released and minus the DVD games all have some form of rape scenes or nearly all do, and thinking back there are few games which do not seem to have them, so it's not so simple as avoiding those games. Having it everywhere too could just be trying to attract all gamers not an indication of popularity of a dark theme.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 08-07-2004).]
Err…I wasn’t talking about the girl falling for her rapist in stories, if anyone got that kinda idea.
I was talking about the girl gets raped, main guy finds/saves girl, girl is a nervous wreck.
Girl finds solace in guy. Then they have sex about a hour from the rape.
I have no issues with with the rape/consensual sex stories. Nor dark stories.
Not really my thing though.
quote:
Originally posted by vikitehwaffu:
I was talking about the girl gets raped, main guy finds/saves girl, girl is a nervous wreck.
Girl finds solace in guy. Then they have sex about a hour from the rape.
I sort of see what you are saying now, was slightly confused before, and still think it would make an interesting change of story having the girl hunt down her rapist to kill him, odd thinking for me that condones neither murder or rape, anyway to me that is almost as bad, because he knows she has been hurt, he knows she has is vulernable and he exploits that and her newfound trust by having sex with her? Keeping it even within the world of fiction that guy, seems almost as much a ass as the rapist, almost ...
Even if it is slightly consensual through the now cliched ideas of if he does it with her real quickly it's like her true first time idea, it still seems low, oh well, each to their own I suppose.
[This message has been edited by SCDawg (edited 08-07-2004).]
What really disgust me in h-games is:
*Bestiality;
*Rape/Gang-rape;
*Conventions (a girl having sex with more than one guy at the same time);
*Stupid games with lots of Just-sex/no-plot scenes;
That’s why i prefer renai or story-focused bgames.
For me? BORING sex scenes. Like all of them in Brave Soul. Don’t get me wrong Brave Soul is a great game and one of the best B games released in the US, but I’m sorry, watching scenes with one guy having regular sex with one girl who loves him gets kinda boring, ya know? Other than that the only things that really gets me is Blood and Torture.
Test Test having account probs… looks like its fixed
[This message has been edited by Laslow (edited 08-14-2004).]
quote:
Originally posted by Laslow:
For me? BORING sex scenes. Like all of them in Brave Soul. Don't get me wrong Brave Soul is a great game and one of the best B games released in the US, but I'm sorry, watching scenes with one guy having regular sex with one girl who loves him gets kinda boring, ya know.
Actually I kind of liked this about the game, it was the most realistic in terms of sex seens of many of the games, since it was not sex with every girl and you actually had to get them to love you first.
quote:I agree...i just found it weird how they would give you extra seplls...oh we had sex and then the girl learned an ability that had nothing to do with the sex scene...hell half them didn't even have any relavance to the non-sex scenes.
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Actually I kind of liked this about the game, it was the most realistic in terms of sex seens of many of the games, since it was not sex with every girl and you actually had to get them to love you first.
quote:
Originally posted by Jinnai:
I agree...i just found it weird how they would give you extra seplls...oh we had sex and then the girl learned an ability that had nothing to do with the sex scene...hell half them didn't even have any relavance to the non-sex scenes.
I think they ran out of ways to get them spells since a lot of the time the finding of the spells was strange. She talked to you then walked around town and what do you know learned a new spell. Or one that I think happened this way was something like "she" cast a spell on herself it did "this" to her and she ran around town that way and amazingly learned a new spell.
Maybe they should have tied more of it into the sex, have it as some sort of "spiritual realization" or something rather then the random, she's running around town in a dress hiding from the town and learns a new spell way they did have it.
I dislike none of a particular kind, BUT I REALLY ATE THOSE WHO FOLLOWS STUPID OR NONSENSE CHOICE SELECTIONS… These ones really piss me off!!!
A game title over all? I’ll give you a couple!
Kango Shycyauzo series and Tokimeki Check-in.
[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 08-14-2004).]
Can you give an general, not direct game, example of what you mean by those choices because I cannot think of any from Check-in.
quote:I can only think of one, the scene where Takayuki is given the choice between sweeping up in front of the inn and working at another location. Choosing one over the other is entirely arbitrary, but the decision results in different endings. Other than that, I think TCI is a very well-written and reasonable story.
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Can you give an general, not direct game, example of what you mean by those choices because I cannot think of any from Check-in.
EMotional issues that resolve really quickly do bug me more than dark games, actually.
“Oh no, we cannot have sex because I am so innocent and virginal, I will blush and cry even though I love you truly! … How about you fuck me up the ass instead, honey?”
"You/Someone has taken advantage of me, I have been raped and am bleeding and crying … Oh, you want to have sex again? That’s so comforting of you!"
It’s the quick turnaround that’s annoying. A game where you repeatedly do controlling things to a girl until she loves only you is creepy but it’s potentially a good/interesting story. Rape followed by apology sex literally five minutes later is not a good story.
A girl who is shy and nervous about sex could be really cute if you slowly coaxed her into enjoying physical attention (and hey, how about doing so by doing some things for her instead of demanding an instant cockpit?) but girls who are shy and nervous for about three seconds and then go along with it anyway (or suggest something equally perverse to make up for lack of vaginal penetration) are just annoying.
Either a) they’re completely lying about being nervous because they think it makes them look cute, which makes them manipulative and annoying, or b) the boy is forcing an uncomfortable girl into sex and she’s too weak-willed to resist, making them both annoying or c) the writing just sucks.
Basically i dislike any kind of ecchi scene that comes out from nonsense or illogical choices… I feel kinda silly in playing them…
quote:
Originally posted by SCDawg:
Can you give an general, not direct game, example of what you mean by those choices because I cannot think of any from Check-in.
The “Whip the floor/Mop the floor” stuff. Pretty silly and nonsense to me… These two wasted the most beautiful stories in Tokimeki IMHO…
And for Kango, the Hand choice in the beginning. Are these two samples enough?
[This message has been edited by Italicus (edited 08-15-2004).]